Tell me again why we need a knife??

[qpuf]

I wondered if anyone would mention Ralston. Lots of will, for sure. But, his mistakes were compounded by his over-confidence, in my opinion. He contiuned to push limits until the limits pushed back. The fact that he chose a cheap knife is just an example leading me to believe it was just another thing he got away with. I don't think an expensive knife would have saved him any sooner(well, maybe a bit sooner). But it goes to my opinion that he took a lot for granted-that he never really considered the "what ifs..." as serious possibilities. That would be in line with his not leaving a trip plan, climbing alone, etc... I see him as lucky in many ways more than anything else.

 

[JackBauer24]

I think it is hilarious the way people continue to read my posts and think I am advocating not carrying a knife and that knives aren't important. Chris

It's kind of irritating when people read too much into your posts and go off on crazy tangents isn't it.

 

[runningboar]

It's kind of irritating when people read too much into your posts and go off on crazy tangents isn't it.

JB,
Come on man I didn't mean anything at all personal, first blood was one of my favorite movies when it came out just like red dawn. When I watch them now they make me nauseous, I came on strong I know but in this two dimensional world you really never know when someone is serious. I currently work with 2 people that dress up in fantasy costumes and beat each other with sticks, nothing wrong with it and the only reason I bring it up is that in todays world it would not be to much of a stretch for someone to dress up as Rambo complete with a united cutlery short sword and go to the movies, which I don't personally think is a good idea.

I sincerely apologize for taking your post literally, and there really is no reason to bash Stallone, even though I can't help it sometimes. Chris

 

[JackBauer24]

JB,
Come on man I didn't mean anything at all personal, first blood was one of my favorite movies when it came out just like red dawn. When I watch them now they make me nauseous, I came on strong I know but in this two dimensional world you really never know when someone is serious. I currently work with 2 people that dress up in fantasy costumes and beat each other with sticks, nothing wrong with it and the only reason I bring it up is that in todays world it would not be to much of a stretch for someone to dress up as Rambo complete with a united cutlery short sword and go to the movies, which I don't personally think is a good idea.

I sincerely apologize for taking your post literally, and there really is no reason to bash Stallone, even though I can't help it sometimes. Chris

It's all good man. A good rant is healthy and I understand exactly where you're coming from. I'm not seriously going to dress like John Rambo and go to the movies.

Per THIS thread though, You're pretty much right. Although I don't care to have a dollafiddy paring knife from dollar general, but a $30 SAK would do me just fine. I experienced a lot of this, what I call "product ellitism" just recently. I decided to purchase an AR. I don't need an AR-15 in any way shape or form. But I feel as though I might not be able to buy one in the very near future and be damned if a politician is going to tell me I can't have a certain rifle. Anyway... I ended up with a damn fine, affordable(ish), middle of the road rifle. but asking on forums similar to this one, you get all internet-specops-tacti-cool experts who want you to put $2500 in one and want to disect every spring and pin down to it's freaking carbon compound. It's just like the knives.

 

[skammer]

.

As it is, Aron only had a cheap chinese knock-off MT, but with the knife on that he was able to get through the bone and tendons and free himself.

Took him awhile though, sawing and hacking.... guess he wished he'd packed a good SAK or Leatherman with one of those excellent little saws.

.

He actually cut the flesh around the bone and then broke both bones in his arm to free it. Highly doubted an kind of knife would have done anything to the rock as it weighed 3 tonnes or so. A better blade would have been less painful cutting though.

He has nobody to blame for this but himself.

Skam

 

[troutfisher13111]

We don't need a knife?!? I guess your right, but they sure do make it easier. Not to mention there fun to play with and talk about.

 

[slipfirep40]

Has anybody here heard of Aron Ralston? You probably don't know the name but he was the fella who got pinned by a one ton sandstone boulder while hiking solo in Colorado a few years back.

Aron, although an experienced outdoorsman, had a real 'blonde' moment and forgot to tell someone where he was going.

After three days of being pinned and reduced to the point of desperation where he was forced to drink his own urine, Aron had a vision and realised that his only chance of survival was to sever his own arm.

Now, I guarantee you he wouldn't have been able to do THAT without a knife.

As it is, Aron only had a cheap chinese knock-off MT, but with the knife on that he was able to get through the bone and tendons and free himself.

Took him awhile though, sawing and hacking.... guess he wished he'd packed a good SAK or Leatherman with one of those excellent little saws.

You can read all about Aron's little episode in his book, Between a Rock and a Hard Place. I highly recommend it.
Reply With Quote

Kind of reminds me of a video:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=RO7Q1tMGE7g&feature=user

 

[runningboar]

So merely the fact that I can afford and have purchased a high end knife such as a Busse, makes me a macho man with a talisman? Thats a pretty unfair assumption. What gives you this "distinct feeling"?

Why don't you reread what I said, I did not mention Busse, or any knife for that matter, my words were latest and greatest, most expensive GEAR...... not knife.

I haven't said anything at all about the size of any knife, I get the distinct feeling that people think that if they have the latest and greatest, most expensive gear they have some sort of talisman. All I have said is that knowing how to use what you choose might be more important than the quality. Chris

 

[mymindisamob]

Personally, less expensive gear makes me feel tougher.
If I can survive with this

I feel like I am better than all of you.

 

[runningboar]

I like to think that too, but really and truly I lust after the really good, mostly handmade stuff, unfortunately I have to also eat.

It is also a proven fact that cheaper gear does make you tougher, sleep in coleman bag from wally world and you get tough or die, anybody can sleep in a cozy north face or kelty. :thumbup: Chris

 

[batosai117]

I like to think that too, but really and truly I lust after the really good, mostly handmade stuff, unfortunately I have to also eat.

It is also a proven fact that cheaper gear does make you tougher, sleep in coleman bag from wally world and you get tough or die, anybody can sleep in a cozy north face or kelty. :thumbup: Chris

LMAO...when I was little, for my first summer boy scout camp I was told to bring a cot to sleep on. Me and my family only knew of one cot, it was an old army cot that took half an hour to set up and it was hard as a rock when it was. Well, I learned real quick that those lovely $20 or less dollar cots from Academy that simply fold out one time were a helluva lot nicer and easier to set up. Then I froze my ass off at night since I had one of those wally world sleeping bags. Longest week of my life, and I was about 9ish years old too. After that it was northern face and a nice springy cot for the next couple of summer camps that headed my way.

 

[Ravaillac]

Actually we could rename that thread: "those ten things I'd use before I even draw a knife".

 

[WVHILLS]

Why don't you reread what I said, I did not mention Busse, or any knife for that matter, my words were latest and greatest, most expensive GEAR...... not knife.

My mistake.

 

[Fonly]

Good thread RB, I agree with ya, I've met alot of people who think of survival as searching for food on a long term basis, creating a grand shelter and everthing else, I see survival as a short term thing, your hunting you get lost, a few days in the bush, I want fire shelter and signaling. Plus I left with the GF where I was going, how long I should be gone what I was wearing and everthing that the should know. So, though I like having a knife, Having people know where I am, being warm and being able to let someone know where I am when come looking is what I see important. A SAK would be all I need, but luxuries are nice, and I like having them. Though testing my skills is also something fun, going bare bones.

 

[Thomas Linton]

You're right on the money there. Hypothermia is the biggest risk of all.. . .

One can find a multitude of statements that agree with your words.

When you ask for facts to support what "everyone knows," you come up empty.

I have found three statistical studies. None supports hypothermia as a statistically significant cause of wilderness death. (It IS a major cause of urban death.) The "Big Three" identified in these studies are falls, drowning, and heart attacks.

The studies are fatalities in Western federal parks, Federal parks in Washington, and NH SAR cases (always looking for more):

http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1304948

http://www.wemjournal.org/wmsonline...&issn=1080-6032&volume=016&issue=04&page=0192

http://www.wemjournal.org/wmsonline...&issn=1080-6032&volume=015&issue=01&page=0011


So learn to swim and don't take silly risks in or around the water - especially cold and/or fast moving water. Wear good footwear and don't take silly risks on significant grades. Don't think your still 21 when you're 55 and out of shape.

Of course, if you die of hypothermia, you will have no interest in statistics.

 

[skammer]

Having people know where I am, being warm and being able to let someone know where I am when come looking is what I see important.

Leaving info is key to getting found.

Having a world class ground SAR program in your province doesnt hurt either. Not everyone can make the assumption that highly trained skilled searchers will be looking for them.

Skam

 

[Buffalohump]

Yeah, that's what I meant. Actually, the boulder was made of sandstone, which is fairly soft. If he'd had a something with a bit of heft on him he might - and I do stress might - have had a chance of chipping his way out of it. Still would of lost the hand though, no doubt.

I believe Ralston has acknowledged that he was a complete bonehead for neglecting to inform someone of his itinerary. I just admire the guy for his pure will to survive. It reminds me of wolves and the like who chew their own feet off to escape from a trap.

A better blade would have been less painful cutting though.

He has nobody to blame for this but himself.

Skam

 

[Buffalohump]

I think the guys who succumbed recently on Mount Hood in that blizzard would bear testament to that...

Not sure about stats, but the point I think the guy was trying to make is if you are stuck in a cold place, your first priority is to stay warm. Or am I missing something here?>

Of course, if you die of hypothermia, you will have no interest in statistics.

 

[skammer]

One can find a multitude of statements that agree with your words.

When you ask for facts to support what "everyone knows," you come up empty.

.

My facts are dragging about 3-4 dead hypo patients out of the woods a year. I dont need an analysis to determine "Hypothermia is a major cause of wilderness death".

Its not the only cause and it can be seasonal and environmentaly related but its a major threat.

There is no true database on SAR activities or rescues. the stats are regional or individual team at best. There should be a database of all SAR facts but it takes time and money.

3 weeks ago we had an elderly lady go missing on a walk we found deceased in cool wet weather and the cause of death in the media was listed dementia and injury. It was clearly the elements that killed her.

How many deaths due to injury that actually didnt kill the subject gets the blame but hypothermia was the end cause? Its very murky and subjective.

Skam

 

[tradja]

Thanks runningboar, you inspired me. Unlike many of you here, I have not been very disciplined on practicing and expanding my bushcraft skills. I can navigate, improvise, and build a fire in bad conditions, but some of the friction fire and scavenged tinder stories here just impress the heck out of me.

So Monday, at the end of my 45 minute walk home from work on a beautiful 5 degree moonlit night, I spontaneously walked right past my house, about a half mile further out into the juniper. Without stopping at home to grab any fancy gear, I wanted to see if I could really get a fire started as the temperature crept towards zero.

Found a small piece of snow-free frozen ground, used my office-edc Spyderco Ladybug (!) to finely shred some juniper bark and dry grass, and before long had a nice little fire going.

I stopped at finger-diameter sticks. If I had it going that well, that was success enough for me.

I haven’t started a fire since last fall. It felt good to succeed in low-single digits, getting a real fire going before my hands stopped working.

I agree that, in general, skills trump gear (and weigh less too). However, as has been noted above, this *is* a knife forum.

I propose the following: practice your skills, seek new ones, buy lots of nice knives, repeat.