Tell me again why we need a knife??

Honestly I think a knife (whatever size makes you comfortable), the clothes on your back and a little finesse is all you really need for survival except in really barren [wastelands/areas]. Having more than that will make it easier to contact the outside world and get rescued, be more comfortable, etc, etc, and I think runningboar's list makes it clear that if you have all of the [gear/stuff/junk] listed there is not much foreseen *need* for a knife in many situations and in some situations, a knife may be much less important than other provisions or not even necessary. Of course your choice of clothing can be one of the more important considerations, especially if you choose to only carry a knife...

In any case, you'd have to be pretty insane to be registered on these forums and *not* carry any knife of sorts...
 
It's all relative, people.
btw, I don't even own a cell phone, but I can see the logic in letting someone know where you are going.
We all know we can't predict what will happen and we all must decide what to take on our own, and hope your kit and your smarts are enough to get you through whatever challenges you face.
 
runningboar said:
On this forum we discuss the merits of knives for Real Life Survival Situations, protection against lions and bears, :rolleyes:. It seems every other thread is arguing over whether or not you need a big, burley he man knife or a wee, little girly knife in order to survive. Lots of people have stated that other people can stake their lives on a cheap blade but not them, they will only settle for a blade from the finest materials made and tested to the very limits of modern technology. Others seem to think that about any knife is OK.

Just exactly how much of these discussions is fueled by machismo and fantasy, IMO pretty much all of it. What is a real life survival situation, and if your in one why do you need a big knife, or any knife for that matter. I think there are a lot of things on my list far above any knife.

1. A detailed plan, with coordinates if possible, and a time schedule, and how long before help is called left with a dependable person before you leave.

2. A cell phone

3. A map and compass and know how to use it

4.The best clothes and shoes/boots you can afford with extra layers in a daypack

5. The ability to make fire now

6. Water and/or a way to purify it

7. Something to use for overhead cover, a siltarp, space balnket, poncho or the like

8. A signalling device, at the least a whistle, better yet a PLB, flaregun with flares, or a can of orange smoke

9. A few power bars or the like

10. The ability to stay calm and think, mental preparedness

I have been really digging lists lately.:p

I am sure that I left some things off but all of the things I listed IMO are more important than a knife.

If you are lost, chances are one maybe two nights is about all you will spend in the out of doors. What do you need a knife for, where I live I don't need one to build a fire, if I am lost long enough to need to build traps I am in very serious trouble, thinking about self defense is almost stupid, again if it comes down to my pocket knife against a determined foe, man or beast, I am in dire straights. If you are injured to the point that you can't walk out, then I would rather have a whistle than a knife.

I guess to sum things up and and quit rambling, maybe before arguing about what type of knife you need, an expensive, durable knife you can trust or a simple SAK or Mora, maybe the first thing is to think realistically about what you actually need it for? Mental masturbation is fun, thinking about TEOTWAWKI, zombies, and aliens but every now and again a good dose of the truth might help you decide what you really need. Chris
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Chris, great post, and I have to say that even though i own plenty of knives of all sizes, none of them are necessary for a stay of a few days in the woods. It's fine to carry whatever makes YOU feel comfortable, but in actuality, like you state, there are more pressing matters than a 1lb slab of steel roped to your leg IME. A Mora, sak, short FB, long blade custom, if you enjoy it then it's with you. For most of us knife nuts we have lots of choices to edc, or take on a hike. that comes down to what I want along, not to be gone 'forever' or fight off zombies (though killing a tweeker or two does come to mind:D):thumbup:
 
Mental masturbation is fun, thinking about TEOTWAWKI, zombies, and aliens but every now and again a good dose of the truth might help you decide what you really need. Chris
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We all know that knives would be virtually useless against the superior technology of an alien race.
 
Hey runningboar, I couldn't agree with you more....about the condescending remarks :D. I love my knives, and once more often than I'd like, someone talks down about me liking folders in the outdoors. It's just something that I was raised on, so I'm used to using folders, not much for carrying fixed blades. Furthermore, I have been on two extensive backpacking trips (when I was younger and unknowing of the great knives out there) and the only knife that I had was a camilus boy scout deluxe folder (similar to a SAK). I did just fine with it for the three weeks I was away from home (both trips were each about three weeks long).

Now, I'm not trying to say that the big knives aren't necessary, I'm just saying that they don't have to be HUGE to get by. Preference is key, to each his own.

When I hear the phrase "survival situation," I almost automatically think "cold weather" and "snow." The cold is probably one of the biggest worries for a warm southerner like me. I don't do desserts, but the cold I would love to try out. It seems that more people die in the cold than any other type of environment. It is easy to get lost in a blinding snow storm. Not to mention it is also hard to work with your hands when they are shaking from the cold. So when I hear "survival situation," this is what I think of. Any other warm temperament climate would seem fairly easy to get out of.
 
Has anybody here heard of Aron Ralston? You probably don't know the name but he was the fella who got pinned by a one ton sandstone boulder while hiking solo in Colorado a few years back.

Aron, although an experienced outdoorsman, had a real 'blonde' moment and forgot to tell someone where he was going.

After three days of being pinned and reduced to the point of desperation where he was forced to drink his own urine, Aron had a vision and realised that his only chance of survival was to sever his own arm.

Now, I guarantee you he wouldn't have been able to do THAT without a knife.

As it is, Aron only had a cheap chinese knock-off MT, but with the knife on that he was able to get through the bone and tendons and free himself.

Took him awhile though, sawing and hacking.... guess he wished he'd packed a good SAK or Leatherman with one of those excellent little saws.

You can read all about Aron's little episode in his book, Between a Rock and a Hard Place. I highly recommend it.
 
You're right on the money there. Hypothermia is the biggest risk of all. Of course, in warm/hot climates dehydration is your chief enemy. If you can keep warm in cold places, and cool in hot places, you can survive for a looooong time. The one essential 'survival' ingredient in both scenarios is drinkable water.

batosai117 said:
When I hear the phrase "survival situation," I almost automatically think "cold weather" and "snow." The cold is probably one of the biggest worries for a warm southerner like me. I don't do desserts, but the cold I would love to try out. It seems that more people die in the cold than any other type of environment. It is easy to get lost in a blinding snow storm. Not to mention it is also hard to work with your hands when they are shaking from the cold. So when I hear "survival situation," this is what I think of. Any other warm temperament climate would seem fairly easy to get out of.
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Chris,

Great thread idea. Wilderness survival is a broad set of skills. Knife skills are only one of them. If you are doing normal wilderness activity such as backpacking on the AT and using approved campsites you could easily get by with just a SAK. That's camping, you are carrying your fire, water, shelter, etc on your back.

I did alot of off-trail, unapproved, killing-the-kings-deer type camping in the Appalachians in my younger days and the only knives I carried were a Ka-bar and a SAK. If you go off trail then fixed blade knives start making more sense. After doing enough off trail hiking we took an old no-name machete we had and shortened it to about 13 inches and used that as our camp beater knife. It got alot of use.

Here in Brazil the machete is indispensable. With a year round growing season trails get overgrown very quickly and a little used trail will be barely visible after a few years. You can still follow them but you will be hacking vines and briars constantly. The uses for the machete are too numerous to list in a short post but it does play a role in just about every aspect of wilderness survival here, shelter, fire, water, navigation, signalling, and food gathering. Can you do those things in a RLSS without a machete in Brazil? Yes, but the loss of that machete could very well be the tipping point to put you into a RLSS in the first place. Mac
 
Thanks Mac,
When I first started this thread I just wanted people to think about what they actually do in the out of doors. Very few of us have the chance to get deep enough into the wilderness to ever worry about a lot of the things discussed on this forum. Building traps, shelters, fishing equipment, friction fire and lots of the other things that I love and enjoy talking about and practicing, I don't think I would call survival skills. Woods skills, primitive skills all of that fits, but not survival, as I have said before, if the situation gets so dire that you have to fall back on those skills you are probably in a heap of trouble. Like in my Rambo post, I think the rash of current TV shows help to cause people to think this way, Les and Bear conquering the wilderness with a multi tool or a gerber gator, setting traps, and making bows and arrows to fish with. Out in the really real world instead of expending energy doing that, I am going to munch a granola bar, sit down with my map and compass, figure where the nearest road is and walk to it.

I thought that there would be a backlash from the title and the thread but I didn't think quite so much, all of the people that thought I was honestly advocating not carry a knife or that this was a big vs small thread, that was not my point at all. I guess to sum things up I was trying to make a point about having a real plan and not a Les or Bear fantasy.

I am sure this post has offended someone as well, oh well, let the flames begin. Chris
 
I think that the ability to improvise is a good thing in a survival situation because it is impossible to carry gear for every situation you can imagine.
A knife very useful if you want to improvise.
 
runningboar said:
Thanks Mac,
When I first started this thread I just wanted people to think about what they actually do in the out of doors. Very few of us have the chance to get deep enough into the wilderness to ever worry about a lot of the things discussed on this forum. Building traps, shelters, fishing equipment, friction fire and lots of the other things that I love and enjoy talking about and practicing, I don't think I would call survival skills. Woods skills, primitive skills all of that fits, but not survival, as I have said before, if the situation gets so dire that you have to fall back on those skills you are probably in a heap of trouble. Like in my Rambo post, I think the rash of current TV shows help to cause people to think this way, Les and Bear conquering the wilderness with a multi tool or a gerber gator, setting traps, and making bows and arrows to fish with. Out in the really real world instead of expending energy doing that, I am going to munch a granola bar, sit down with my map and compass, figure where the nearest road is and walk to it.

I thought that there would be a backlash from the title and the thread but I didn't think quite so much, all of the people that thought I was honestly advocating not carry a knife or that this was a big vs small thread, that was not my point at all. I guess to sum things up I was trying to make a point about having a real plan and not a Les or Bear fantasy.

I am sure this post has offended someone as well, oh well, let the flames begin. Chris
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No, I think you've got the right idea. :thumbup: Except for just one thing, and even that is more an issue of difference of opinion and semantics than anything more substantial - and that is the word "survival."

Survival situations are situations where you are by definition in a heap of trouble, in a life threatening situation. A situation where you can just sit down, have a snack, and then casually walk out to the nearest road isn't anything even near survival situation in my opinion. But as I said, that's an opinion. :)
 
Elen said:
Survival situations are situations where you are by definition in a heap of trouble, in a life threatening situation. A situation where you can just sit down, have a snack, and then casually walk out to the nearest road isn't anything even near survival situation in my opinion. But as I said, that's an opinion. :)
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Very true but the predominate thing you hear is, what if I have to spend an unexpected night outside type of threads, so that is sort of what I geared this thread for.

Much more realistically, what if I fall and break my leg, that's when your survival plan better be in high gear and a knife has very little to do with it. Chris
 
runningboar said:
Very true but the predominate thing you hear is, what if I have to spend an unexpected night outside type of threads, so that is sort of what I geared this thread for.
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Yeah, I fully agree - for just an unexpected night(s) out, a knife really is unnecessary, although it can be very useful for a variety of things from whittling for passing time to making nice little fuzzies for the fire. For that kind of thing, the proper clothing, a comfy sleeping bag and a nice tent are far more useful, although not necessary either.

I heartily recommend people that live in somewhat hospitable areas (so don't try this if you live in the Sahara) to sometimes try to spend a night or two out with absolute minimum gear to see how it is. It can be a lot of fun - just don't go too far out, in case you get second thoughts. ;) This weekend, I'm probably going to spend the Saturday night outdoors with no gear except for my clothes and a backpack with some water and food in it. Oh, and a flashlight and some interesting reading. Going to find a nice comfy tree, set up underneath the branches and take a couple of green conifer branches to make a floor so I don't have to sit on cold ground. Really gives you a different outdoor experience when you've got no fire, no sleeping bag or indeed anything except the natural environment for a shelter. :)
 
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