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Tell me again why we need a knife??
- Thread starter runningboar
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You beat me to it!
Don't worry after this thread I'm sure there's gonna be a long line of people ready to give up all their knives.
Don't worry after this thread I'm sure there's gonna be a long line of people ready to give up all their knives.
I sure hope so!
And I also hope my rant convinced people to give away all their cell phones so I can sell them to Kreplakistan at a premium. 
Cobalt
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On this forum we discuss the merits of knives for Real Life Survival Situations, protection against lions and bears,. It seems every other thread is arguing over whether or not you need a big, burley he man knife or a wee, little girly knife in order to survive. Lots of people have stated that other people can stake their lives on a cheap blade but not them, they will only settle for a blade from the finest materials made and tested to the very limits of modern technology. Others seem to think that about any knife is OK.
I agree that there are so many threads these days talking about what to use to kill an attacking animal, stick, knife, spear, etc. The best thing is your wits and not being so frightened out of them that you freeze like a deer in headlights. I think it is more important to know your tools well and if that is a mora or an SAK or a busse or whatever, that is fine, but you had better know it's limitations and weaknesses. As for the need? see below
Machismo is huge in the knifeworld, just look at strider and mad dog propaganda, it's all about "operators" and all that BS.
Well if you have this, then where is the survival aspect. You are really not in survival mode if you know how to get out right?
In most far away survival places you will not have a cell tower close by and unless you have a satellite phone this item is not necessary at all. But since cell phones are small and light, why not take one.
Yes, if you have one it is great. Knowing how to use it is even better. If you have been through land nav then you can guide your way with just a compass.
Well the best clothes and boots is not in place of a knife as no one I know goes out of his house naked.
as for Extra layers is nice but I don't know that I would have this at this point on my list and definitely not ahead of a blade of some kind.
Firestarters are small and cheap, so are waterproof matches, no conflict with a knife here.
It is only going to last you so long. You can bring a tin and boil the water using the item above
If you have the right outerwear in the first place all you need is a poncho liner
Fires make good signals
Dry foods are good as well. Nuts are the best, but again this is all stuff you would take with your knife and I would still choose the blade
This is not in place of a knife but as I said above "wits about you" You have no business even attempting going out without your wits better known as common sense.
Actually in your scenario you are closer to home since the lost time is 2 nights. In a scenario like this 2 legged predators are much more common than in extended treks in the middle of nowhere. Bad guys don't like anything tough. But if you are just miles from safety that danger is very real.
I consider the knife to be essential. Can I get along without it? yes. But why make my life more difficult than it will already be in that situation.
edited to add that all you really need is some backpacking friends and all is well
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I sure hope so!
Actually your rant convinced me to stop drinking water as well, now I'm gonna sell off all this useless indoor plumbing for scrap metal.
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There is an account (IIRC in Lathrop's book on hypothermia) of two young men who set out into the real world -- the world of maybe, possibly, and could.
They were in great physical shape and carried every piece of backpacking gear lots of money could buy.
They died on a Spring day in the New York mountains with all that gear in their respective backpacks because they apparently kept going in the cold rain, trying to make their objective campsite.
They apparently didn't accept that they there was danger. If there is no "problem," there is no need to deal with it -- to adapt to an unexpected situation by stopping, setting up a shelter, and getting into a sleeping bag.
And then, as Mr. London wrote, there was silence.
It all depends. A knife may save your life or not -- good enough reason to carry one. But the salvation starts with what's in your head.
They were in great physical shape and carried every piece of backpacking gear lots of money could buy.
They died on a Spring day in the New York mountains with all that gear in their respective backpacks because they apparently kept going in the cold rain, trying to make their objective campsite.
They apparently didn't accept that they there was danger. If there is no "problem," there is no need to deal with it -- to adapt to an unexpected situation by stopping, setting up a shelter, and getting into a sleeping bag.
And then, as Mr. London wrote, there was silence.
It all depends. A knife may save your life or not -- good enough reason to carry one. But the salvation starts with what's in your head.
Well, I can try, off the top of my head and somewhat tipsy.
First thing, though, is that this kind of list would apply to the typical western man John and Jane Doe who haven't a large amount of experience in prolonged wilderness survival - people who aren't used to dressing in loinclothes, carving spears out of wood with pieces of sharp stone and then ganging up with some mates to kill some cave bears with said spears. And the list would only contain physical items, not skills or abilities, because skills and abilities weigh nothing, and can be always carried, even if you're stark naked. The list isn't a list of "necessary" items, but items that I think would be pretty damn useful to have in order of importance. For the western, modern citizen, I'd say1) A very good set of clothes for the climate are the number 1 item to have by far - and very good means high insulation (preferably even from exposure to water) and as warm as possible, assuming a cold climate. Why? Because, for some time, clothes will keep you alive (somewhat alive, anyway) even if you do absolutely nothing. Imagine being dumped butt naked and alone in the Siberian winter from a chopper, in the middle of bloody nowhere. Without clothes, you'll be as good as dead in a matter of surprisingly few minutes. You won't have time to find sharp rocks and go hunting for animals to make yourself some primitive clothing of. Without a good set of clothing, it's time to play icicle man. Assuming a warm climate, clothes will still help keep all manner of lovely bugs away from your skin, and will offer some protection from too much exposure to heat and sunlight. Of course, a good set of clothes includes good shoes, too, and they will help your movements a great deal.
2) First aid kit. If you're in a survival situation, odds are someone will get hurt or has already gotten hurt. Although the extreme among us may use moss coverings and all kinds of natural witchcraft to help heal wounds and injuries, I'd advise taking an extensive first aid kit, with at least a lot of equipment for field dressing and strong (!) pain killers, too.
3) A strong, reliable fixed blade knife in a secure sheath - not too long and heavy because it will be cumbersome in precise work, and not a folder, because if someone inexperienced (and less than brilliant) screws up, there will be finger pieces rolling around the forest. You can use the fixed blade, for example, to cut branches for fires and shelters if you have to, and as many have said here, some people will feel safer with "a weapon", so that's an added benefit. You can use the blade to make other tools for digging and various other things that I don't need to list to the folks at Bladeforums!
4) A good, warm sleeping bag that doesn't mind getting wet at the surface. Most people don't like sleeping on bare ground (although I personally find it amusing, especially if there are ants
), and most people don't like feeling cold and wet. A good sleeping bag will go a long way to help those problems, and interestingly enough, some people feel safer sleeping inside a bag than outside one, even though the environment around them isn't any different. Magic. 5) If you can carry one, a good tent. It's a very unnecessary luxury item, but it will make people feel safer, and does help keeping warmer, protecting from wind, and also mosquitoes. And it will give you someplace dry to stash away your stuff, which is surprisingly handy especially if it's very snowy.
6) As much water as you can reasonably carry. Food you can go without, but you need water. In some places water is relatively easy to acquire, in some places it's difficult - either way, it always helps to know that you've got some right now with you, and you don't have to go searching for it. Water purifying tools are a good thing to carry, too!
7) Effective firemaking tools that you know best to use. Doesn't help carrying a firesteel if you don't know how to use one, but are the master of the Zippo. There isn't always anything to burn, but a lot of the time there is, and people like fires. That, and it obviously helps in keeping warm, it can be used as a signaling tool, in food prep and purifying water and all kinds of fun things from scaring away wild animals to felling trees if you for some reason feel like it.
8) Extra food, something a) relatively light and compact, b) requiring little preparation, c) providing good energy and last but not least d) something that does not taste like crap. The last thing anyone needs in a survival situation is food that makes you want to throw up. It can really kill the unexperienced person's mood.
9) Something to carry all that stuff with, that is to say, a good backpack. It can be useful for more than just carrying stuff. You can use one as a pillow, or as a part of your shelter to protect rain from falling all over your face while you sleep, and other fun things.
10) Communications - a satellite phone, or a cellular phone, a radio, something that you can use and that might actually work where you're going.
Yeah, I think that is what I would slap on someone who isn't Survivorman and is going somewhere where trouble might appear. My theory, being from the north of the world, is that the Cold Kills. You can stay alive without eating, and for a while without drinking anything except what you get from plantlife, snow and such, but you cannot stay alive if you're cold. In case you're wondering what number 11 would be, that would be a compass & map. It would be higher for an experienced woodsman, but for John Doe, not so - the supposed logic here is that John Doe is less likely to walk out, potentially hundreds of kilometers, with his compass and map, than to just stay put and camp until SAR comes saving his ass.
Now, the list might be smarter if it wasn't midnight and beer thirty over here. Actually your rant convinced me to stop drinking water as well, now I'm gonna sell off all this useless indoor plumbing for scrap metal.
MISSION ACCOMPLISHED!
Remind you what we need a knife for?
For cutting.
That is what we need knives for. Does every one NEED to use there knives ever day
maybe not it depends on every ones sitution at any given second. I use my fixed blade
daily. I will not go into the tasks. But I do not use my folder every day. Because my
fixed blade is so easy to get at it is at my side in a deep pouch. my folder is in my pocket
not as easy to get at. I am all about convience.
Hope this helps to answer your ?
Bryan
For cutting.
That is what we need knives for. Does every one NEED to use there knives ever day
maybe not it depends on every ones sitution at any given second. I use my fixed blade
daily. I will not go into the tasks. But I do not use my folder every day. Because my
fixed blade is so easy to get at it is at my side in a deep pouch. my folder is in my pocket
not as easy to get at. I am all about convience.
Hope this helps to answer your ?
Bryan
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Is this the next step in the MOra debate...we went from a small folder is good enough to "POOF!" NO KNIFE.......you need a knife to live in the woods, period. You might not need a knife if you are lost for an overnighter...but to live in nature for an extended period of time...a knife is a very important tool.
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Yes a Flint knife or cutting tool. People used them for thousands of years before steel was ever used, Its not hard to fashion a cutting tool from stone. I am sure 99 percent of the outdoor folks would have a knife with them but I guess I took this thread to mean CAN you survive without a knife and the answer is Yes. In fact if you can't survive without a knife, chances are you would not survive with one either. A knife is a great convenience but not a absolute necessity. In my survival kit I have a SAK. If need be and i don't have a fixed blade on me, it will do nicely.
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Ah NUTS! This place is one argumentative joint lately....I can't...You couldn't...they should have....you would've.............what the heck is wrong with everyone ( I use this term loosely guys) around here???? If all we are going to do is act like we all know everything, and then tell the other guy they don't....we aren't going to do much for each other in terms of real learning or teaching. When I first came here, I thought that it was awesome...guys showing of thier steel and knowledge...those were the good old days I guess.
mymindisamob
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.......................... we've lost the bromance.
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Yeah...I was a little dramatic, wasn't I?
A what the heck...lets start throwing rocks again.....
A what the heck...lets start throwing rocks again.....
Yeah...I was a little dramatic, wasn't I?
A what the heck...lets start throwing rocks again.....
LMAO.
Its cheaper than pay per view.
Skam
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Everyone knows that if you don't have an indestructible knife, you're a dead man. Where's Don Rearic? He'll confirm that Busses are the only choice.
Actually, it's interesting to me that a couple of situations in which knives made a substantial difference have already been posted. Yet they seem to have been glossed over.
Actually, it's interesting to me that a couple of situations in which knives made a substantial difference have already been posted. Yet they seem to have been glossed over.
It's interesting to go back through this thread and skim through all 6 pages. There seem to be some underlying assumptions here. I never had the feeling that anyone on this forum truly believed that having a large knife was a guarantee of anything. Helping the odds, yes. I keep seeing protesting against immature posters who love Rambo. I haven't seen those posters, seems like a strawman argument to me.
Life's just not that black and white, there's lots of shades of grey here. None of us can anticipate every survival situation in every region of the world. Like a previous poster, I have had a member of a hiking group fall down and hurt her leg. Fashioning a splint and staff is a whole lot faster with a good sized knife or hatchet, especially with the sun going down, and you still have a good 3000 - 4000 ft vertical to come down. I once got stranded 100 miles outside of Moscow (Russia, not Idaho) in a blizzard. That was interesting, talk about a scene right out of Dr. Zhivago...
Probably the one "best" knife that I like to carry is my SAK. It's always in my pocket when I'm in the woods. Always. But I also almost always have a larger backup too.
Ok, now for some questions. Which movie are you referring to about Stallone and the sea shells? That one's not ringing a bell. I'll go and google Hugh Glass, too... I don't get out much....
Life's just not that black and white, there's lots of shades of grey here. None of us can anticipate every survival situation in every region of the world. Like a previous poster, I have had a member of a hiking group fall down and hurt her leg. Fashioning a splint and staff is a whole lot faster with a good sized knife or hatchet, especially with the sun going down, and you still have a good 3000 - 4000 ft vertical to come down. I once got stranded 100 miles outside of Moscow (Russia, not Idaho) in a blizzard. That was interesting, talk about a scene right out of Dr. Zhivago...
Probably the one "best" knife that I like to carry is my SAK. It's always in my pocket when I'm in the woods. Always. But I also almost always have a larger backup too.
Ok, now for some questions. Which movie are you referring to about Stallone and the sea shells? That one's not ringing a bell. I'll go and google Hugh Glass, too... I don't get out much....