"Tenacious" model

with all due respect, spyderco has always had all of their "overseas models" made for them by other companies... i.e. moki, g.sakai (gerber?) and now cheng fu shun or whatever... should've read the writing on the wall a couple of years ago... its not an upward trend IMO.
 
Very sad instead of investing in America's future by creating more jobs. We are offered a Chinese Spyderco.
 
It is better that Spyderco keep pace with other manufacturers for business with large chain stores. Even if you won't buy this one because it is made in China, supporting it is still in your best interest. Without this large scale business, Spyderco will be driven more and more into a niche market and who wants to see a another American knife company fall? Not me. Buck is doing this very same thing successfully and their name hasn't been tarnished. Go look at any Walmart....most Buck knives carried by Walmart are made in China...but there is almost always the Buck 110 right next to the Chinese made models....the 110s are marked "Buck USA." The 2 Walmarts close to me don't even carry any Spyderco models anymore...they used to. Would it be so bad to see multiple Spyderco knives for sale at large chain stores with the majority being made in China and 1 or 2 still marked "Golden?"
 
Thanx much for all of your comments. It is appreciated.

I also have no problem understanding all of the points of view. We labored over the thought for a long time.

FYI, Gail and I put out the US flag every day at our home and our factory.

Our new laser is up and operating at our US factory. We invest in our Golden factory.

Hey 3G, I agree. #4 was the main reason.

Mongo man, Were it not for Eric, your scenario is too often true. One day I will exit and Eric will carry on the charge. "Passion is the spice in the spirit that makes excellence possible". Eric has the passion. Otherwise, it's just another business.

We work with two Taiwan makers. Specially selected. They are good. Taiwan manufacturing is usually 30-35% less than US or Japan mfr. China mfr is about 60% less than US or Japan mfr. The value of the $ is the main cost difference.

thanx again.

sal
 
How is a model (or models) being made in China going to have any effect on the quality of those made in Japan or Golden?
 
It won't, that's the nice part. Spyderco get to compete in the Walmart market while still maintaining the high-quality Seki-city and uber-quality Golden-made models.

The way I see it is: a Chinese made Spyderco model means more profits for the company, which in turn means more models coming out of Seki-city and Golden.

In a lot of other industries (I'm thinking here specifically of electric guitars, my field of expertise, but it holds true for many others) companies' expensive USA-made models are essentially underwritten by their more affordable overseas-made merchandise.

To extend the guitar comparison: Paul Reed Smith makes arguably the best electric guitars money can buy. PRS has a line of guitars made in China (or Korea, I forget which offhand) that have the same quality control and usability as their expensive US models, but at a price point a working musician or student can afford (we're talking 6-700 dollars versus 2-3 THOUSAND dollars here).

Now, I don't know what percentage of PRS' bottom line is covered by the overseas models, but it stands to reason they wouldn't make them if they didn't generate profits. Same goes for knife companies. There's absolutely no reason for Spyderco to ignore this market sector. If it benefits the company, it benefits everyone who enjoys the company's products.
 
The choils and finger grooves that feature on many Spyderco knives have deterred me from buying them. I'm a Delica/Endura/Salt I/Pacific Salt fan.

I love the simple lines of the Tenacious. I'd prefer it to be a lock back, but I'll still buy one.

I don't mind if it's made in China, as long as it is well made - which I'm sure it will be.
 
Love the design with the edge right up to the handle. Most knives in the line up made you choke-up on the choil or had that unwanted space between the handle and edge. Does the blade have more belly than say a military? Also, the thumb ramp doesn't look as steep as usual, a plus for me, and it looks like you can even take the heighth of the ramp down a couple mm without sacrificing strength. Lastly, is this the bushcraft model mentioned before?
 
Sal, as I said on the other forum, I hope this move works out well for Spyderco. I can understand and appreciate the economic forces that made it a business necessity. That said, this particular model will not find its way into my pocket, not because of the country of origin, or the steel, even thought the latter does seem to fly in the face of your "Does it cut any better?" logic for dismissing Damasteel and other stainless damascus blade steels. My decision is based on it being choil-less, G-10 scaled, and having a wrong handed lock.

Paul
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The Deacon said:
.......

My decision is based on it being choil-less, G-10 scaled, and having a wrong handed lock.
Click to expand...

Choils and scales are not my major concern but I must admit, the lock is a little disappointing. My Spydercos are ambidextrous, this was one of the main selling points for me when deciding on which one to buy. I would probably buy this knife if it had a lock back. Obviously the economics of producing a small number of left hand models are not good but still, it's disappointing.
 
Manufacturers see other manufacturers working with China, and having it positively impact their bottom lines.
Often in a big way.
With little or no downside.

The lure of it must be almost impossible to resist, and in fact resisting might be just plain bad business.
 
Another race to the bottom, just like the toy industry. I will not buy it as I will not buy the 20 dollar chinese knives at walmart. They will eventually lower the standards for the rest of the industry. This does not support good paying american jobs, just cheap foreign labor. You get what you pay for guys. It is a throw away society we live in.
 
Write Spyderco off my list of knives to buy. All this while the chinese continue to deny our military ships ports of call in Hong Kong.
 
Hell at that price I'll buy a few!

Sal: Your constant endeavor to give more knife for the money amazes me. As does your effort to step up the standards of quality with models like the T-Mag and P'kal. A big.....


:thumbup:

to you sir!
 
jdtj63 said:
Another race to the bottom, just like the toy industry. I will not buy it as I will not buy the 20 dollar chinese knives at walmart. They will eventually lower the standards for the rest of the industry. This does not support good paying american jobs, just cheap foreign labor. You get what you pay for guys. It is a throw away society we live in.
Click to expand...


That is quite ignorant of you. Spyderco makes some of the highest quality knives around. They are extremely high quality folders and fixed blades.

Have you handled a Byrd Cara Cara G-10? Mine is as solid as a Manix and has stood up to loads of abuse with no negative effects.

Yeah a throw away society for sure.:rolleyes:
 
Mongo-man said:
This is exactly what is going to happen, first an introduction of the Byrd brand, some of us where unhappy but hey it's not a spyderco right, just another brand , made and produced by Spyderco in China.
Then it changed from Byrd knives to Spyderco/Byrd knives.
Now the first model under the brand Spyderco is made in China.
Others will follow.
High end knives will be still made in Golden Colorado, but the weight of manufacturing will change to China.
The Chinese factory will outsource the production to different manufacturers, and the QC of the knives will slowly start to deteriorate.
Fingers will be pointed towards each other, long communication lines will be established, language barriers, different work ethics.
Then some bad batches will slip thrue QC and a small percentage of customers will get unhappy.
W&R? Sorry dude, the parts are located 6500 miles away. Send it in and we will try to work it out.
The vast majority of ELU will not care if this happens because they see knives as tools.
knives will become throw awy objects, broken or chipped, hey it's 30$ dollar knife? Why repair it? Buy a new one!
Scores of spydercoesque knives will flood the market and only experts will know the difference between a genuine product and a copy.
Corruption will slip in in the subcontractors. batches of steel and parts will be inferiour.
The Knife collector will loose it's faith in Spyderco and it's products and will move on to firms that have in house manufacturing.
In 10 years the Spyderco brand will be sold to an international investment firm and Sal and Eric will be on the board.
After a feud Sal and Eric leave the board and the Spyderco brand has no ties to the origional designer or the brand .

Spyderco fails to follow up on customers request and dissolves in the ever changing globalised market.

The End.

This is what i fear will happen, i hope i am wrong. I have been collecting and using Spyderco knives for more then 18 years now. Is it sad? yes, but it seems to be the trend in everythig i buy these days. Everything has turned into disposable waste, no product has a suspected life cycle of more the 5 to 10 years anymore, break and replace policy, everything turns into mediocre , quality, workmanship, materials.

I REALLY hope i am wrong on this one.

Will i buy the knife? Yes probably, because i have to, because i can't afford to buy a high € knife for opening packages and cutting string.
Will it made me sad? yep, but hey, i am an old timer, a grumpy old man who mumbles about how everything was better in the old days, with weird thoughts about things beeing made to last for a lifetime, whil my kids and grandkids will be amused that old pop gets anoyed because he expects that he can buy something 1.0 and believes it will not be outdated in 6 months.

Can i blame Spyderco for jumping on the train? Nope, but luckely i can still feel sad about it.

just my 2 cents
Click to expand...

Interesting logic...

I sorta like it....

but can one apply this to a company that is much more well known....

like Buck?

If not these sorts of huge assumptions seem a little drastic.
 
Instead of seeing manufacturing in China as a race to the bottom, a lowering of standards which will eventually compromise the quality of knives offered generally, look at it from the other side. We have actual evidence from more than one company that this process is raising the quality of knives being made in China. This is no different than the process we saw in Japan and then in Korea and Taiwan.

In fact, the quality of Chinese products depends primarily on the requirements of the American principals who contract for the knives or who even run their own factories in China.

There is a legitimate worry that has nothing to do with the products themselves, and that is the rivalry between the great powers involved. But socio-political discussions have nothing to do with the products themselves, and there are better places to discuss them than here. At least if you do feel impelled to state an opinion in this forum on China vs. the US, be sure to separate it from opinions on the quality of their products.
 
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