You can justify it all you want but it still doesn't make it right. I guess the quality is better than it use to be considering the workers are probably threatened with their lives and jobs if they don't improve it. They are still communists you know and socio-political discussions have everything to do with everything.
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"Tenacious" model
- Thread starter Sal Glesser
- Start date
You can justify it all you want but it still doesn't make it right. I guess the quality is better than it use to be considering the workers are probably threatened with their lives and jobs if they don't improve it. They are still communists you know and socio-political discussions have everything to do with everything.
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- Jan 27, 2006
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I must say i probably wouldn't buy one, unless it was drastically on sale!
I almost always am willing to pay a bit more for made in the USA product,.....but there are exceptions.
I just got back from the mall and purchased a Chinese made Kershaw Vapor ll ,......ONLY because it was too good a deal to pass up at just $19.95. (lists at $39.95) As a knock around vehicle knife i can live with it's Chinese origin. It's an all stainless frame lock and i may take the small clip off and try it as a backup neck carry floder,.....as it's slim profile would carry under a shirt well.
Anyway,.....one offering from a company like Spyderco is not a major thing with a lot of folks,......as long as it doesn't trickle down into 90% of your product line. A few months ago i stopped into a brand new LL Bean store that opened in a local mall,......and after about an hour of searching i walked out totally disgusted! :grumpy: Dang near 90% of their store stock was made in Mexico, China, Pakastan, Taiwan, Japan,.....etc,......and i had to look REAL hard to find anything made in the USA!
Up to around 10% foreign made is OK in my mind,.....as i understand certain price points cannot be reached otherwise. Beyong that i look at it as if we're selling out the US for purely short sighted profit motives,......and i'd rather stop doing whatever i did for a living if it meant i could only survive if i scrapped the US worker.
I'm not alone in that feeling..............
I almost always am willing to pay a bit more for made in the USA product,.....but there are exceptions.I just got back from the mall and purchased a Chinese made Kershaw Vapor ll ,......ONLY because it was too good a deal to pass up at just $19.95. (lists at $39.95) As a knock around vehicle knife i can live with it's Chinese origin. It's an all stainless frame lock and i may take the small clip off and try it as a backup neck carry floder,.....as it's slim profile would carry under a shirt well.
Anyway,.....one offering from a company like Spyderco is not a major thing with a lot of folks,......as long as it doesn't trickle down into 90% of your product line. A few months ago i stopped into a brand new LL Bean store that opened in a local mall,......and after about an hour of searching i walked out totally disgusted! :grumpy: Dang near 90% of their store stock was made in Mexico, China, Pakastan, Taiwan, Japan,.....etc,......and i had to look REAL hard to find anything made in the USA!
Up to around 10% foreign made is OK in my mind,.....as i understand certain price points cannot be reached otherwise. Beyong that i look at it as if we're selling out the US for purely short sighted profit motives,......and i'd rather stop doing whatever i did for a living if it meant i could only survive if i scrapped the US worker.
I'm not alone in that feeling..............
Sal Glesser
Moderator
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- 11,746
Hi Jdtj63,
I appreciate your opinion, as all of the others. The post and discussion is so I can get opinions. Spyderco works for the end line user. Their opinions are important. All of them.
Somethime I share business thoughts and practices. Partially because some of our customers are interested and partially because we try to be a good business model for long term America.
It's been very difficult to keep our factory in Golden going. We've lost much money and we've gone through many learning curves and changes....but we are still operating and growing. We are persistant and "tenacious" and will do what ever is necessary to keep our US factory alive and keep our US crew working.
sal
I appreciate your opinion, as all of the others. The post and discussion is so I can get opinions. Spyderco works for the end line user. Their opinions are important. All of them.
Somethime I share business thoughts and practices. Partially because some of our customers are interested and partially because we try to be a good business model for long term America.
It's been very difficult to keep our factory in Golden going. We've lost much money and we've gone through many learning curves and changes....but we are still operating and growing. We are persistant and "tenacious" and will do what ever is necessary to keep our US factory alive and keep our US crew working.
sal
Dear Mr. Glesser,
Thank you for the infos. Also, thank you Kristi for the picture.
I am not generally a big fan of linerlocks (although I designed a couple myself
), but I always had such a positive experience with the Spyderco linerlocks, so I don't see why I shouldn't trust this one too.
A few years ago, I had this prejudice against Spyderco knives made in China. This was till I got a Salsa and I admired not only the design and ergonomy, but the manufacturing quality as well, which was at least equal with any other Spydie I have..
There are also a few Byrds that came through my hands, and those were all quality knives. In fact, some of them were so well made and thought, they deserved a round hole.
I am glad to see the Tenacious comes to complete the circle. It is nice looking and looks ergonomically sound.
The only issue is the long edge which made me worry about cutting yourself when you close the knife; this is what it happens at the knives of the other company that makes knives with a round hole. If you don't mind your thumb, you'll get cut when you close the knife. I know this because someone brought me one of these knives to sharpen - now he has three Millies instead of the abovementioned folder, but that's another story 
In the picture it seems the blade has an enlarged ricasso which might work as a safety feature, by touching the finger before the edge does. Don't know if it works this way, but this is how it looks to me. Maybe some jimping there would make the knife even safer.
The four position carry clip puzzles me a bit, considering it's a linerlock.
Speaking of locks: I would much have preffered better a compression lock instead of the linerlock - a Tenacious with a compression lock would surely totter the throne of my current EDC.
I understand that the general public will rather go with something familiar, but still... 
Thank you for the infos. Also, thank you Kristi for the picture.
I am not generally a big fan of linerlocks (although I designed a couple myself
), but I always had such a positive experience with the Spyderco linerlocks, so I don't see why I shouldn't trust this one too. A few years ago, I had this prejudice against Spyderco knives made in China. This was till I got a Salsa and I admired not only the design and ergonomy, but the manufacturing quality as well, which was at least equal with any other Spydie I have..
There are also a few Byrds that came through my hands, and those were all quality knives. In fact, some of them were so well made and thought, they deserved a round hole.
I am glad to see the Tenacious comes to complete the circle. It is nice looking and looks ergonomically sound.
The only issue is the long edge which made me worry about cutting yourself when you close the knife; this is what it happens at the knives of the other company that makes knives with a round hole.
If you don't mind your thumb, you'll get cut when you close the knife. I know this because someone brought me one of these knives to sharpen - now he has three Millies instead of the abovementioned folder, but that's another story In the picture it seems the blade has an enlarged ricasso which might work as a safety feature, by touching the finger before the edge does. Don't know if it works this way, but this is how it looks to me. Maybe some jimping there would make the knife even safer.
The four position carry clip puzzles me a bit, considering it's a linerlock.
Speaking of locks: I would much have preffered better a compression lock instead of the linerlock - a Tenacious with a compression lock would surely totter the throne of my current EDC.
I understand that the general public will rather go with something familiar, but still... 
Morrow
Don't make this weird
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- 27,773
The political forum is over there --------->
The only thing I'm writing is you on to my ignore list.
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
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- 90,915
I do believe many people here are losing sight of who it is who is selling out the American worker. It is not the American capitalist, who really couldn't care less where his profits come from, but would do better with a few high-dollar items than a shipload of cheap stuff.
No, it's the American worker who is selling out the Aemrican worker, because he won't pay the prices that his fellow American worker needs to get to make a living wage.
Besides which, it pains me to read condemnations of capitalists and communists in a context that so clearly misunderstands what capitalism and communism really are, and it ain't quite what we see in the world today.
As far as the politics of it, everything is not poltiics. It might better be said that everything including politics is actually economics.
And I would ask, since we are fated to live in a world of clashing national interests, would you rather clash with a "Soviet Union" or with a "Japan"? Which model would you like China to approach?
No, it's the American worker who is selling out the Aemrican worker, because he won't pay the prices that his fellow American worker needs to get to make a living wage.
Besides which, it pains me to read condemnations of capitalists and communists in a context that so clearly misunderstands what capitalism and communism really are, and it ain't quite what we see in the world today.
As far as the politics of it, everything is not poltiics. It might better be said that everything including politics is actually economics.
And I would ask, since we are fated to live in a world of clashing national interests, would you rather clash with a "Soviet Union" or with a "Japan"? Which model would you like China to approach?
Morrow
Don't make this weird
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Go through all of your belongings and throw away anything not made in the USA. Do you own any electronics.......a TV? Get rid of all those foreign-made products then start ranting about a race to the bottom. Until you actually walk your own talk you're nothing more than a hypocrite.
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
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- 90,915
Hey, brother, let's not make this personal. Read the message and respond but don't shoot the messenger.
If we all agreed on everything, I wouldn't need to come here to discuss it, I could just sit in front of a mirror and tell myself what I believe.
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
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Pax
Say it isn't so,
How can we ever know
About the way to end the strife and rage?
Let's give it one more try
Or else, before we die,
My guess is that our counsel wasn't sage.
Please stop the violins,
Let's hope whirled pease begins;
Easier said than done, I know.
A better way would be to see
Charity and mercy
Evinced, instead of blood soaked into snow.
Say it isn't so,
How can we ever know
About the way to end the strife and rage?
Let's give it one more try
Or else, before we die,
My guess is that our counsel wasn't sage.
Please stop the violins,
Let's hope whirled pease begins;
Easier said than done, I know.
A better way would be to see
Charity and mercy
Evinced, instead of blood soaked into snow.
- Joined
- May 19, 2006
- Messages
- 3,721
I've been thinking about this off and on all day. here's what I've come up with:
I find myself, depending on my mood, on both sides of the 'argument' here. On one side, I see the business sense of Sal's decision. It makes perfect sense if he really wants to make it in the global economy. the reality of life in this time is that if you aren't willing to adapt, you will most likely go the way of some of the great, bygone companies.
On the other hand, it does seem to be purely an economic decision. Money, money, money. To some, including me at times, decisions like these seem to be short-sighted and greedy. They appear to put money before loyalty.
The reality is that we are ALL guilty of putting economics before loyalty. Honestly, I drive a Toyota because American cars in the same price range are not as dependable, gas-efficient and long-lasting. The same is true of some other things. American made no longer means highest quality. I bought my first spyderco in 1993 or 4. It was a delica. I loved that knife and never even considered where it was made. The bottom line is that I came to trust in SPYDERCO, not where the product was produced.
My hope is that regardless of where Sal and Eric produce their knives that they keep in mind the many men and women who have depended on their knives on a daily basis. From the mechanic to the soldier to the gardener, there are millions of people who have come to love and depend upon their Spyderco knives. Insofar as WE have built Spyderco, Sal and co. owe it to us to maintain a quality product upon which we can depend.
Good luck Sal. I will continue to buy Spyderco so long as YOU are proud of your products and do all you can do to keep it that way.
Best,
Brett
I find myself, depending on my mood, on both sides of the 'argument' here. On one side, I see the business sense of Sal's decision. It makes perfect sense if he really wants to make it in the global economy. the reality of life in this time is that if you aren't willing to adapt, you will most likely go the way of some of the great, bygone companies.
On the other hand, it does seem to be purely an economic decision. Money, money, money. To some, including me at times, decisions like these seem to be short-sighted and greedy. They appear to put money before loyalty.
The reality is that we are ALL guilty of putting economics before loyalty. Honestly, I drive a Toyota because American cars in the same price range are not as dependable, gas-efficient and long-lasting. The same is true of some other things. American made no longer means highest quality. I bought my first spyderco in 1993 or 4. It was a delica. I loved that knife and never even considered where it was made. The bottom line is that I came to trust in SPYDERCO, not where the product was produced.
My hope is that regardless of where Sal and Eric produce their knives that they keep in mind the many men and women who have depended on their knives on a daily basis. From the mechanic to the soldier to the gardener, there are millions of people who have come to love and depend upon their Spyderco knives. Insofar as WE have built Spyderco, Sal and co. owe it to us to maintain a quality product upon which we can depend.
Good luck Sal. I will continue to buy Spyderco so long as YOU are proud of your products and do all you can do to keep it that way.
Best,
Brett
China is not really Communist. It is more of an Oligarchy that uses some Communist ideas to hold power. I hate everything China stands for and would much rather have my money support a real Communist country like Veitnam or even a less dangerous dictatorship like North Korea. Sadly until the US starts treating all it's manufacturing like it's firearms companies (no 400$ M14 clones in the US) you are stuck with having to compete with slave labour and no environmental laws. I buy chinese goods myself but try to find similar priced products from India ,Taiwan ,South Korea(they are doing really well) or Vietnam.
I understand why Spyderco did this and will still buy their other knives but I will give this one a pass. For some reason the Byrd knives did not bother me as much?
I understand why Spyderco did this and will still buy their other knives but I will give this one a pass. For some reason the Byrd knives did not bother me as much?
Morrow
Don't make this weird
- Joined
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Hey, brother, let's not make this personal. Read the message and respond but don't shoot the messenger.
If we all agreed on everything, I wouldn't need to come here to discuss it, I could just sit in front of a mirror and tell myself what I believe.
My bad....I apologize.
Esav Benyamin
MidniteSuperMod
- Joined
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- Messages
- 90,915
I understand. I've been watching you and Hobbs for a long time. I know you can't help your behavior.
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- Oct 7, 2006
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- 2,437
Sal,
Gail, Eric and youself have my 100% support. When I was ignorant (one lacking knowledge) I avoided Spyderco's that were made in Japan and anything with serrations. I now own Spydercos that are made in Golden Colorado USA Earth, Japan, Taiwan, and a few byrd items from China. I will buy the Tenacious and I will enjoy seeing what the Chinese makers were able to manufacture from your designs. That being said, I will not relenquish my Military models, anything in ZDP 189 or my MULE knives as I aquire them. Like I have heard you state, and read many times regarding steels...not better, just different.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holiday's.
Gail, Eric and youself have my 100% support. When I was ignorant (one lacking knowledge) I avoided Spyderco's that were made in Japan and anything with serrations. I now own Spydercos that are made in Golden Colorado USA Earth, Japan, Taiwan, and a few byrd items from China. I will buy the Tenacious and I will enjoy seeing what the Chinese makers were able to manufacture from your designs. That being said, I will not relenquish my Military models, anything in ZDP 189 or my MULE knives as I aquire them. Like I have heard you state, and read many times regarding steels...not better, just different.
Merry Christmas and Happy Holiday's.
- Joined
- Oct 2, 2006
- Messages
- 2,122
Been giving this some thought.....I am impressed that Sal would bother to tell us why they are doing this. I appreciate his honesty. I am happy that there will be something to compete with all the bad Spdie knockoffs I see. I am not much up on politics and economics. That being said, Spyderco has never let me down . I trust Sal's decision for the good of Spyderco. If they go the way of Camillus and Schrade because of their refusal to adapt we would all be sorry I think. My only hopes are that the majority of their products will be made in Japan or US and that the quality of the Chinese models will be worthy of the Spyderco name. This means they are going to have to be better than many of the name brand Chinese knives I have seen.
Edit..I do wish the edge didn't go all the way to the handle though. Big safety feature to me.
Edit..I do wish the edge didn't go all the way to the handle though. Big safety feature to me.
I must admit a $400 M14 or M1A would be very tempting.
Bummer.
"We are the enemy" - consumers have driven to the model of lower prices regardless of what it takes, and that is China (for now).
Years ago when Spyderco first hit the shelves, US brands ruled the shelves. In the locale I lived, the same was said about the quality from Japan, etc, etc, etc that is being said now about China. The japanese Spyderco evolved to some real good stuff. Maybe the same evolution for China. But hey, now that my job is outsourced to India, it's the chinese stuff I can afford....
Time will tell.....
"We are the enemy" - consumers have driven to the model of lower prices regardless of what it takes, and that is China (for now).
Years ago when Spyderco first hit the shelves, US brands ruled the shelves. In the locale I lived, the same was said about the quality from Japan, etc, etc, etc that is being said now about China. The japanese Spyderco evolved to some real good stuff. Maybe the same evolution for China. But hey, now that my job is outsourced to India, it's the chinese stuff I can afford....
Time will tell.....