"Tenacious" model

I am eagerly looking forward to seeing one of these. To be honest, I am probably the type of person this knife is aimed at.

I have recently become addicted to sharps, and I like the thought of buying American made, but I am also someone who simply can't afford to drop a lot of dough on a knife. I have a Byrd Cara Cara and think its fantastic, and have been admiring the Endura's, Delica's and Native's, but the $40-$50 range is at the very top of my budget, probably an amount I would only spend once in 12-18 months. I also have a Dozier folder ($20),a Kershaw Storm II ($35), and a Kershaw Mini-Cyclone that I recieved as a gift this Christmas. I would love to have a round-hole Spyder, and this model may be my first.

I think I read somewhere else that the China knives are a way for Spyderco to bring in profits that would allow the company to keep making knives and providing jobs in the USA. That also makes me feel a little more comfortable.
 
sixfoot7 said:
I don't quite follow your reasoning, Dan. If the choice of steel makes it a "third tier- better than Byrd etc.", than wouldn't it have to be a different steel than what the Byrds are currently made of, 8Cr13MoV? The steel would have to be something perceived as better (or at the very least different) than 8Cr13MoV in order for your statement to be logical. Am I misunderstanding something? Please feel free to correct me if I am. I'm not sure I understand your hypothesis, but I also have two ex-wives, so I am certainly capable of misunderstanding points of view :).

I understand Sal's decision, and will continue to buy Spyderco/Byrd products in the future. I own several of each brand, from the CaraCara to the Millie in BG-42. The Byrd knives represent outstanding value, and there isn't anything to my knowledge that can match it within the price point of the line. The steel (8Cr13MoV) has decent edge retention, sharpens up like a dream, and I believe is similar to AUS-8A in properties IIRC.

Can't wait for Jay to get it in his store.

BTW, anybody remember when "made in Japan" was considered a sign of poor quality? Who knows what the future will bring. Times change, so do reality and perceptions.

Rik
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No problem Rik, been married "a couple" times myself and am sure all my exes would tell you my way of "connecting the dots" is a bit odd. :D ;)

The way I see it, aside from a couple older models not yet upgraded, the "standard" steels for Spyderco branded knives today are VG-10 and CPM S30V. Spyderco, historically, has not always moved forward with each new model introduced, but up until now it has, with only one exception I can think of, never moved backward. In my mind, 8Cr13MoV on a Spyderco branded knife represents a move backward, and thus a third tier. I will be better than the Byrds, by virtue of superior fit and finish and the round hole opener, but with steel which, while as Mr. Glesser pointed out, is the best China has to offer and is better than 95% of what comes out of there, is not as good as that which 95% of current Spyderco models use.

And yes, I'm old enough to remember when Tasco optics and Daiwa fishing gear were considered total crap, and rightly so, and when dealers could not give Subarus away. The changes that have occured in the past sixty odd years to both the reality of Japanese workmanship and our perception of it have been huge and positive. But, while that does lend credence to the idea that Chinese manufacturing may show similar improvements over time, it by no means guarantees that it will.
 
Esav hit the nail on the head. Until Americans are willing to pay for what something is actually WORTH, and not try to base things on a model of control of labor costs, then we will continually see outsourcing as a problem. I support Spyderco, Sal would be doing his company and employees a disservice if he did not do his VERY best to compete.
 
Dan Barnes said:
No problem Rik, been married "a couple" times myself and am sure all my exes would tell you my way of "connecting the dots" is a bit odd. :D ;)

The way I see it, aside from a couple older models not yet upgraded, the "standard" steels for Spyderco branded knives today are VG-10 and CPM S30V. Spyderco, historically, has not always moved forward with each new model introduced, but up until now it has, with only one exception I can think of, never moved backward. In my mind, 8Cr13MoV on a Spyderco branded knife represents a move backward, and thus a third tier. I will be better than the Byrds, by virtue of superior fit and finish and the round hole opener, but with steel which, while as Mr. Glesser pointed out, is the best China has to offer and is better than 95% of what comes out of there, is not as good as that which 95% of current Spyderco models use.

And yes, I'm old enough to remember when Tasco optics and Daiwa fishing gear were considered total crap, and rightly so, and when dealers could not give Subarus away. The changes that have occured in the past sixty odd years to both the reality of Japanese workmanship and our perception of it have been huge and positive. But, while that does lend credence to the idea that Chinese manufacturing may show similar improvements over time, it by no means guarantees that it will.
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try out any Byrd lockback folder .... the Byrd line of folding knives and the Fenix line for flashlights are both excellent examples of quality Chinese manufacturing...while the average Spyderco Clipit has better fit and finish than a Byrd..... the Value these Byrd knives represent are huge IMHO... :thumbup:
 
Sal,

I hate to see it, but I understand. My company also manufactures overseas. I do have to say that I may not buy one, but will continue to support what you and Spyderco do. The thing I appreciate most is that you in no way had to justify this or address us, but true to form you looked us in the eye, so to speak, and gave us your story and I greatly respect that. You can't please everyone, but thanks for caring about your customers. Good luck with the endeavor, I hope you do well. I'm sure you will. I'll tell you what I'll forgive you if you keep the Mini-Manix in production:D:D!!
 
I will not knowingly purchase any product manufactured or assembled in Mainland China, from Spyderco or any other company. I will buy from Seki, Colorado, even Mars. But nothing from China for me, my household and family. You will get none of my money for this product line.
 
Sal - Heck, I'll take one!

Bob Brinker of 'Moneytalk' (on KGO810 radio here in the bay area) had a discussion on the whole import/export issue, and how it affects our economy. I won't bore the you or the forum readers here with the details, but the bottom line is, product quality from Asia - mainly, Taiwan & China - is getting much better.

The way I see it, if you guys are closely watching the build quality, and ensuring material consistency, I'd have no problem buying one of these, or others. If others don't want to buy products from China, I respect their opinion, but as for me, if the product gets a fair review, I'll try it.

Looking forward to the 'Tenacious'.

thx - cpr
 
I like that it is made of 8Cr13MoV. I'd like to see a Military made of that. I don't see many complaints about 8Cr13MoV online.
 
I'll most certainly will buy AT LEAST one of them.

I like everything about it especially the liner lock(I guess I'm the only one on this:confused:)

Furthermore it's the first new Spydie that comes in full spyderedge since ages:D
 
Because the edge goes all the way to the handle, the Tenacious has about the same length cutting edge as the Endura 4, but the Tenacious closed length is about half an inch shorter than the Endura 4.
:)
 
I probably wouldn't buy it because I favor lockbacks. I did, however, just order a Byrd Robin. I almost didn't because it was made in China. Not that I think the quality isn't there but I'm trying to buy more US made stuff and less sweat shop stuff. No mean feat. When I ordered the Robin I also ordered Surefire batteries. They cost more than the Battery Station cells I'm using now (didn't read the label that time) but they're made in the US. If I could have ordered an ambi Dragonfly I would have ponied up the extra $10 to have a flat ground blade that wasn't made in China. But it wasn't an option. The Lava is little, lefty friendly, and flat ground, but has metal scales. I know, I should just be greatful it's drilled for lefties. Maybe I'll just have to get a Ladybug (the Jester was out of stock) if I want a little blade that wasn't made in China. I appreciate that Sal is one of the few knife makers that keeps the southpaws in mind (I won't buy Kershaw for that reason). I hate to see Spyderco go to China but if tht's what Sal has to do to keep Golden open, so be it.

Frank
 
SilverFoxKnows said:
... I did, however, just order a Byrd Robin. I almost didn't because it was made in China. Not that I think the quality isn't there but I'm trying to buy more US made stuff and less sweat shop stuff. No mean feat. When I ordered the Robin I also ordered Surefire batteries. They cost more than the Battery Station cells I'm using now (didn't read the label that time) but they're made in the US....
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Battery Station CR123 batteries are made in the USA now.
 
D3/SE said:
I'll most certainly will buy AT LEAST one of them.

I like everything about it especially the liner lock(I guess I'm the only one on this:confused:)

Furthermore it's the first new Spydie that comes in full spyderedge since ages:D
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I also like liner locks. I am looking forward to positive reviews on the knife.
 
ceg said:
Bummer.

"We are the enemy" - consumers have driven to the model of lower prices regardless of what it takes, and that is China (for now).

Years ago when Spyderco first hit the shelves, US brands ruled the shelves. In the locale I lived, the same was said about the quality from Japan, etc, etc, etc that is being said now about China. The japanese Spyderco evolved to some real good stuff. Maybe the same evolution for China. But hey, now that my job is outsourced to India, it's the chinese stuff I can afford....

Time will tell.....
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We are not the enemy! Outsourcing and insourcing are! Like you said when they outsourced your good paying job to India, now all you can afford is chinese goods. What happens when you can't afford even these products? who will buy them Sal? The Chinese who make 40 cents an hour in a labor camp.

I know you all don't like the truth about economics and so I know you will all call for my head. To me the issue comes down to corporate greed.

You can make the items here with american labor and take a little less profit. Most of the corporations have chosen the easy way out, that way they don't actually have to sell their products on the merits and do marketing. Just offer the lowest price and walla you get to market to Wal-Mart.

I love spydercos products it is just sad that they have to go this route.
 
I must admit that I only skimmed most of this thread, but I did not see anyone else expressing my particular thought, so I'll throw in my two cents.

As far as I can tell, Wal Mart shoppers are not looking for "Made in USA" labels. I would like to see the Tenacious replace the Native in the Wal Mart contract and free up all that Golden production capacity for other models.

Just a thought.
 
I saw pics of the knife before this thread, and figured something was out of the ordinary when I reconciled the materials with the MSRP.

The design looks great. Blood lines of the Calypso, lil'Temperance, Manix, and others. Should be a real winner.

I'm sorry the competition drove Spyderco to this, but I'd rather see real Spydies in a display case at the local chain (Walmart, REI, etc.) than other round-hole models. Hopefully, it will expose more people to Spyderco quality and help build the brand. Keeping the company viable lets Sal explore the cutting edge stuff that *will* find a home in my pocket.
 
I can't complain about it being made in China. All of my sparring equipment were made there. I have to save the little money I have.
 
jdtj63 said:
We are not the enemy! Outsourcing and insourcing are! Like you said when they outsourced your good paying job to India, now all you can afford is chinese goods. What happens when you can't afford even these products? who will buy them Sal? The Chinese who make 40 cents an hour in a labor camp.

I know you all don't like the truth about economics and so I know you will all call for my head. To me the issue comes down to corporate greed.

You can make the items here with american labor and take a little less profit. Most of the corporations have chosen the easy way out, that way they don't actually have to sell their products on the merits and do marketing. Just offer the lowest price and walla you get to market to Wal-Mart.

I love spydercos products it is just sad that they have to go this route.
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So you're assuming Spyderco is making excessive profits on the Golden made knives, and that they could do as well, or better by making all it's models in Golden and cut their profit margin? Kinda doubt the first, find the second laughable.

yablanowitz said:
I must admit that I only skimmed most of this thread, but I did not see anyone else expressing my particular thought, so I'll throw in my two cents.

As far as I can tell, Wal Mart shoppers are not looking for "Made in USA" labels. I would like to see the Tenacious replace the Native in the Wal Mart contract and free up all that Golden production capacity for other models.

Just a thought.
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Could be wrong, but IIRC, Wal-Mart specified that the knife be "Made in USA" and be able to be sold at a certain price point. That's not to say that they might not also elect to carry the Tenacious.

Tohatchi NM said:
I saw pics of the knife before this thread, and figured something was out of the ordinary when I reconciled the materials with the MSRP.

The design looks great. Blood lines of the Calypso, lil'Temperance, Manix, and others. Should be a real winner.

I'm sorry the competition drove Spyderco to this, but I'd rather see real Spydies in a display case at the local chain (Walmart, REI, etc.) than other round-hole models. Hopefully, it will expose more people to Spyderco quality and help build the brand. Keeping the company viable lets Sal explore the cutting edge stuff that *will* find a home in my pocket.
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FWIW, at least one of them is "in the wild" already. Tom (Catamount) has received one and says the build quality is quite comparble to the Seki and Golden made models. Assuming that's accurate, and I have no reason to assume otherwise, and assuming that one or more of the big chains elect to carry it, then the Tenacious will definitely expose a lot of new people to the Spyderco brand.
 
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