The Bears' Den--Shirogorov Showcase

JimMD said:
As this is a Shiro thread, this may not be a fair question, but which do you prefer?
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My money would go toward the F3R. I've looked at the Koenig and they really do look like a nice knife. But the handle proportions seem off to me - too slim for the front two fingers. And the large hump on the spine and disproportionately large flipper tab contribute to the way-too-forward looking balance. This is merely from the photos, no in-hand experience.

I would love your comparison of the two if those are yours.
 
I almost traded for an Arius early this year but my wife loves the knife I was gonna give up and told me she'd be sad to see it go. I would like to try one, but need to both build up my PP act as my current knife-buying policy is zero sum, and also prefer either a Micarta or CF model. Hard to find any out there, let alone specific models, as they seem to fly off the Exchange.

I do wonder about the handle config, as TRfromMT TRfromMT mentioned. F3 is a great knife and just super in hand.
 
TRfromMT said:
My money would go toward the F3R. I've looked at the Koenig and they really do look like a nice knife. But the handle proportions seem off to me - too slim for the front two fingers. And the large hump on the spine and disproportionately large flipper tab contribute to the way-too-forward looking balance. This is merely from the photos, no in-hand experience.

I would love your comparison of the two if those are yours.
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The handle grip is a personal thing, so what works well for me may not for another. The Arius has the most comfortable handle of all my knives. It fits my XL hand perfectly, especially for a saber grip. My thumb nests naturally into the upscoping curve of the blade, with no need for jimping at all to make it feel locked into place. The F3R has my next favorite handle. It's slightly wider than the Arius (0.61 inches vs. 0.57 inches, respectively), and I like enough width for a substantial feel to the grip. For me the posterior handle swell of the Arius is just right. It feels more nimble in my hand than the F3R, whose longer blade feels just a bit more unwieldy in comparison.

They're both great knives. The Arius is my favorite knife. Aside from the handle, I love the blade. Its unique design is not for everyone, but its high hollow grind makes it pretty thin behind the edge for its size, and it feels very solid, with a tip that's reinforced by maintaining a lot of the blade height close to it. It's a little lighter than the F3R (4.15 oz vs. 4.65 oz, respectively), but both are plenty light relative to their size. The construction quality is outstanding in both knives. The Arius is simple to disassemble and put back together. I haven't tried that with the Shiro. The overall action of the Arius is the best in my collection. The Arius drops more freely but in a controlled fashion. It's equally snappy opening both with the flipper tab and the blade hole. The F3R has a slightly softer detent but still great action. Service from Koenig is a big part of the appeal of the Arius, really exceptional and responsive.

You mentioned the flipper tab. I like how the Airus's tab continues the sweep of the curve from the handle's finger groove. The latest version of the Arius has a smaller tab that many prefer. I actually like the old style, but with the size of my hand, my index finger comes down on top of the tab and not at the point from the side. It's like the tab on Sharp by Design knives, which I think is also polarizing and which I also really like.

The F3R was substantially more expensive for me, but some Arius configurations can get pretty expensive as well. The Shiro has a feeling of solidity to it, much more so that the HatiOn I had. I think this comes in part from the thick Ti liners under the thick CF scales. Both knives have a lot of little design touches that indicate plenty of thought from the user perspective went into them. The F3R is impressively thin behind the edge: 0.012 inches vs. 0.019 inches for the Arius. The blade is a more conservative but attractive design. The Arius can come in a variety of finishes, while the Shiro always has the same uniformly stonewashed finish as all production Shiros seem to have. I could go on about each of these great knives, but the short answer is that for me, the Arius is a little better, but the F3R is worth its price if any expensive knife is.
 
JimMD said:
The handle grip is a personal thing, so what works well for me may not for another. The Arius has the most comfortable handle of all my knives. It fits my XL hand perfectly, especially for a saber grip. My thumb nests naturally into the upscoping curve of the blade, with no need for jimping at all to make it feel locked into place. The F3R has my next favorite handle. It's slightly wider than the Arius (0.61 inches vs. 0.57 inches, respectively), and I like enough width for a substantial feel to the grip. For me the posterior handle swell of the Arius is just right. It feels more nimble in my hand than the F3R, whose longer blade feels just a bit more unwieldy in comparison.

They're both great knives. The Arius is my favorite knife. Aside from the handle, I love the blade. Its unique design is not for everyone, but its high hollow grind makes it pretty thin behind the edge for its size, and it feels very solid, with a tip that's reinforced by maintaining a lot of the blade height close to it. It's a little lighter than the F3R (4.15 oz vs. 4.65 oz, respectively), but both are plenty light relative to their size. The construction quality is outstanding in both knives. The Arius is simple to disassemble and put back together. I haven't tried that with the Shiro. The overall action of the Arius is the best in my collection. The Arius drops more freely but in a controlled fashion. It's equally snappy opening both with the flipper tab and the blade hole. The F3R has a slightly softer detent but still great action. Service from Koenig is a big part of the appeal of the Arius, really exceptional and responsive.

You mentioned the flipper tab. I like how the Airus's tab continues the sweep of the curve from the handle's finger groove. The latest version of the Arius has a smaller tab that many prefer. I actually like the old style, but with the size of my hand, my index finger comes down on top of the tab and not at the point from the side. It's like the tab on Sharp by Design knives, which I think is also polarizing and which I also really like.

The F3R was substantially more expensive for me, but some Arius configurations can get pretty expensive as well. The Shiro has a feeling of solidity to it, much more so that the HatiOn I had. I think this comes in part from the thick Ti liners under the thick CF scales. Both knives have a lot of little design touches that indicate plenty of thought from the user perspective went into them. The F3R is impressively thin behind the edge: 0.012 inches vs. 0.019 inches for the Arius. The blade is a more conservative but attractive design. The Arius can come in a variety of finishes, while the Shiro always has the same uniformly stonewashed finish as all production Shiros seem to have. I could go on about each of these great knives, but the short answer is that for me, the Arius is a little better, but the F3R is worth its price if any expensive knife is.
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Very nice writeup , J JimMD Likely I'm going to look a lot closer at them now.
 
I prefer the Shiro all day long J JimMD .
The koenig arius feels too hollow, and i dont like the sound they make when opening.
Also, nothing rivals a Shiro for smoothness in the realm of production knives. And a Shiro is just more comfortable. :)
Kudo’s for braving posting a Arius in a Shirogorov thread...hope you dont get too much flack. ;)
S&F
 
I vote shirogorov too. The ergos on the Arius just didn't do it for me. The quality is there but the forward part of the grip feels too skinny. It reminds me of a Curtiss I had.
 
I plunked down my money on the F3R, with the "white carbon fiber". Went full retail (hey, it's only money, right?). Then today one with red CF pops up on the exchange.... :(:mad: My impatience wins again.

But I'm a little giddy at the thought of a new shiro coming my way!!
 
marcus52AR said:
I vote shirogorov too. The ergos on the Arius just didn't do it for me. The quality is there but the forward part of the grip feels too skinny. It reminds me of a Curtiss I had.
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Clearly the feel of the grip is very specific to the individual and the hand – size, shape, preferred grip. I much prefer the thicker F3/F3R handle to that of the F95/Hati R frame lock design. Others would probably feel the other way, but I like the hand-filling feel of the F3R myself. For me, the Arius is a bit better, just seems designed for my hand and preferred grip, but I like to hold it so the rear handle steel nestles right in my palm. My thumb has the perfect resting spot on the chamfered handle cutout and the upsloping blade. I think the Shiro design is more conventional and may be easier to conform to more hand sizes and shapes.
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TRfromMT said:
I plunked down my money on the F3R, with the "white carbon fiber". Went full retail (hey, it's only money, right?). Then today one with red CF pops up on the exchange.... :(:mad: My impatience wins again.

But I'm a little giddy at the thought of a new shiro coming my way!!
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Congratulations; great knife! I've looked at a lot of Shiros and haven't found anything I like better than the F3R – until you get to the Custom Division and much higher prices.
 
JimMD said:
Congratulations; great knife! I've looked at a lot of Shiros and haven't found anything I like better than the F3R – until you get to the Custom Division and much higher prices.
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Well, it arrived about 30 minutes ago. While I may have preferred all black C.F., or the blue, the white C.F. is pretty nice.

More to follow, but suffice it to say I opened the package with my 95T, and the F3R is now riding shotgun in my pocket.
 
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TRfromMT said:
Well, it arrived about 30 minutes ago. While I may have preferred all black C.F., or the blue, the white C.F. is pretty nice.

More to follow, but suffice it to say I opened the package with my 95T, and the F3R is now riding shotgun in my pocket.
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I think you may find the white CF is more attractive in person that in the website photos. I have the blue CF and really like it, but you have to have it in fairly bright light to notice any blue at all in it. It's pretty subtle.
 
JimMD said:
Clearly the feel of the grip is very specific to the individual and the hand – size, shape, preferred grip. I much prefer the thicker F3/F3R handle to that of the F95/Hati R frame lock design. Others would probably feel the other way, but I like the hand-filling feel of the F3R myself. For me, the Arius is a bit better, just seems designed for my hand and preferred grip, but I like to hold it so the rear handle steel nestles right in my palm. My thumb has the perfect resting spot on the chamfered handle cutout and the upsloping blade. I think the Shiro design is more conventional and may be easier to conform to more hand sizes and shapes.
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SBDsozX.jpg
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The Arius was a tough one for me. I actually didn't use the one that I owned because I was on the fence for months wether to keep it or sell it. I had a feeling I would appreciate the design more after using it. I might revisit it down the road.
 
I have medium hands and i thought the Arius was comfortable. The skinnier handle at your pointer and middle finger drop the blade down almost like my prefered hunting style blade. I didnt think the arius was uncomfortable...just would rather have a shiro.
 
The F3R has had 2 days of pocket time. Man, I am really digging this knife. Entertaining thoughts of selling off the remaining Spydercos I have (users I love, not worth the trouble, but still). This morning I'll savor the decision between it and the turtle.

Having said that, the F3R arrived, new from the factory, in desperate need of sharpening. Good night! It did not even resemble sharp.

The factory bevel was an unimaginative 23 dps. 30 minutes on the W.E. rescued it. It took a little work to get this down to an even 20 dps and bring out the hair popping bit in the middle. I don't mind sharpening a brand new knife really, but for the price this surprised me.

All this raises a question for me - how sharp were your Shiro's? I would have given this a 6 out of 10. 10 for me would be easily push cutting standing phonebook paper. What was your Shiro, new, for your sharpness standard, for your expectation in this category of knife?

She's all cleaned up now. Obligatory photo.

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Nice white CF, TRfromMT TRfromMT --just a beautiful piece! The F3 is indeed a great knife and mine is the best in hand of all my Bears.

Of all 7 Shiros I've bought, 2 were new and the others came off the secondary market, though most of the latter had factory edges and were either LNIB or largely unused. None of them were anything but middling sharp, my LNIB NeOn UL being maybe the best. All but one were very close to 20 DPS and touched up rather easily on the SM from the 6/7 range to maybe a 9. My 111 was more like your 23 DPS and I decided to reprofile on the EP to 16 with a 20 micro-bevel on the SM. That one is scary-sharp now and, having tuned up the action to easily free-drop, its big blade is a virtual thumb guillotine.

The Workshop seems more interested in sending out knives with their signature consistent, narrow edge than in getting them really sharp. On the one hand, this seems a little troubling for blades that come so dearly, but on the other it's something that's easily rectified by the end-user, particularly as knives all require eventual re-sharpening anyway. Like you, I don't mind re-sharpening a new knife. Better Shiro should make a great knife that we can sharpen than make a crappy knife with a great factory edge. Their thinness behind the edge makes them easy enough to re-work and even the more extensive re-profile I did on my 111 didn't make make it too-too broad in appearance.

As a side note, and seeing that you have your new Scout on the Exchange, TR, my 3 Cheburkovs all came right out of the box with excellent semi-polished edges.
 
ChazzyP said:
Nice white CF, TRfromMT TRfromMT --just a beautiful piece! The F3 is indeed a great knife and mine is the best in hand of all my Bears.

Of all 7 Shiros I've bought, 2 were new and the others came off the secondary market, though most of the latter had factory edges and were either LNIB or largely unused. None of them were anything but middling sharp, my LNIB NeOn UL being maybe the best. All but one were very close to 20 DPS and touched up rather easily on the SM from the 6/7 range to maybe a 9. My 111 was more like your 23 DPS and I decided to reprofile on the EP to 16 with a 20 micro-bevel on the SM. That one is scary-sharp now and, having tuned up the action to easily free-drop, its big blade is a virtual thumb guillotine.

The Workshop seems more interested in sending out knives with their signature consistent, narrow edge than in getting them really sharp. On the one hand, this seems a little troubling for blades that come so dearly, but on the other it's something that's easily rectified by the end-user, particularly as knives all require eventual re-sharpening anyway. Like you, I don't mind re-sharpening a new knife. Better Shiro should make a great knife that we can sharpen than make a crappy knife with a great factory edge. Their thinness behind the edge makes them easy enough to re-work and even the more extensive re-profile I did on my 111 didn't make make it too-too broad in appearance.

As a side note, and seeing that you have your new Scout on the Exchange, TR, my 3 Cheburkovs all came right out of the box with excellent semi-polished edges.
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Yes, the Scout has a decently sharp edge... an 8 or 9? Perfectly satisfactory for a new knife.

On reflection, I suppose for a knife in this category, getting the edge you want should be part of the ownership experience. Somewhat like ordering your Ferrari with the rubber you want. Who am I to complain that it came with decent street tires? The exact track tires I want ought to be up to me, to my tastes and skills, right?
 
TRfromMT said:
Yes, the Scout has a decently sharp edge... an 8 or 9? Perfectly satisfactory for a new knife.

On reflection, I suppose for a knife in this category, getting the edge you want should be part of the ownership experience. Somewhat like ordering your Ferrari with the rubber you want. Who am I to complain that it came with decent street tires? The exact track tires I want ought to be up to me, to my tastes and skills, right?
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Agreed, though better edges to start would be appreciated. I wonder if Shiros used to come sharper before their apparent increase in production volume....
 
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