The Bears' Den--Shirogorov Showcase

F95 "BearPattern" dropping later today at Recon1

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So I’m having some lock bar issues with my neon… has anyone else ran into this?

This is my old user, not a safe Queen.
I just noticed a few days ago when I flip it open then grip to use, the lock bar would move. Please see video (sound up):

https://imgur.com/a/w8MiLYu

I took it apart to clean it. Very clean. From what I know it seems like I need to flex the lock bar outward but I cannot because of the built in over-travel stop. It seems to be stamped in, not a screw like the bigger 95.

Any suggestions? If not, anyone in the USA I can send this to? Was thinking of sending it away to someone anyway to get the scales worked on and maybe blast it…
 
bbk357 bbk357 , a few questions and thoughts here...

It's long been noted, and mentioned over the years here at the Den, that Shiro lock bars can be easily pushed past the point of initial engagement. That, in and of itself, is not a big deal. My experience, however, is if pushed deeper they stick there. None of mine spring back on their own. Did you grease your knife to lube and perhaps get a bit on the insert or blade tang? Oil there will generally cause lock stick, but I don't know about grease as I use NanoOil in mine.

Is the initial lock-up solid and in the same place as before? Any vertical blade play now? It's possible that your stop pin is out of round and perhaps rotating it could make a difference.

Does your lock bar tension seem the same? Also the detent stiffness? I should think you'd need more lock bar tension, not less, though how that might have changed with disassembly and cleaning doesn't seem to add up.

I think it might be worth it to de-assemble, re-clean, and put back together dry just to see. I've had knives behave differently after a cleaning and doing so got them back to where they should be. Kinda like re-booting mysteriously solves a computer issue

Shiros generally have such tight tolerances that there's little wiggle room for it--heck, they're sometimes hard to just get apart with everything so tightly fit--but you might get better lock-up location if there's any room to scale-shift. Take a look my thread in the Benchmade pages to understand the principal behind this. Even though you haven't described any centering issue, changing the angle between the slabs and the pivot moves the lock bar position too.

Good luck with resolving your issue.
 
ChazzyP said:
bbk357 bbk357 , a few questions and thoughts here...

It's long been noted, and mentioned over the years here at the Den, that Shiro lock bars can be easily pushed past the point of initial engagement. That, in and of itself, is not a big deal. My experience, however, is if pushed deeper they stick there. None of mine spring back on their own. Did you grease your knife to lube and perhaps get a bit on the insert or blade tang? Oil there will generally cause lock stick, but I don't know about grease as I use NanoOil in mine.

Is the initial lock-up solid and in the same place as before? Any vertical blade play now? It's possible that your stop pin is out of round and perhaps rotating it could make a difference.

Does your lock bar tension seem the same? Also the detent stiffness? I should think you'd need more lock bar tension, not less, though how that might have changed with disassembly and cleaning doesn't seem to add up.

I think it might be worth it to de-assemble, re-clean, and put back together dry just to see. I've had knives behave differently after a cleaning and doing so got them back to where they should be. Kinda like re-booting mysteriously solves a computer issue

Shiros generally have such tight tolerances that there's little wiggle room for it--heck, they're sometimes hard to just get apart with everything so tightly fit--but you might get better lock-up location if there's any room to scale-shift. Take a look my thread in the Benchmade pages to understand the principal behind this. Even though you haven't described any centering issue, changing the angle between the slabs and the pivot moves the lock bar position too.

Good luck with resolving your issue.
Click to expand...


So when I flip it there is still a little space and the lock bar is not “complete”. But when I grip it at all, slightest amount, the lock bar pushes over and is complete.

When it’s all the way over there is zero blade movement. But it does not stay there. And he’s there is some front and back blade movement when you flip it and the lock bar is in this position:

IMG_9393.jpeg


I would rather it be “complete” so that there is no blade movement, but as you can see in the video it does not stay, it pops back.

No I did not use grease, I barely oiled the bearings with Rem Oil when I took it down. No stop pin issue at all, looks great. Very odd. But it’s hard to tell how to fix this because I have not see many neon hard users out there that people have reported issues with.
 
bbk357 said:
So when I flip it there is still a little space and the lock bar is not “complete”. But when I grip it at all, slightest amount, the lock bar pushes over and is complete.

When it’s all the way over there is zero blade movement. But it does not stay there. And he’s there is some front and back blade movement when you flip it and the lock bar is in this position:

View attachment 2857697


I would rather it be “complete” so that there is no blade movement, but as you can see in the video it does not stay, it pops back.

No I did not use grease, I barely oiled the bearings with Rem Oil when I took it down. No stop pin issue at all, looks great. Very odd. But it’s hard to tell how to fix this because I have not see many neon hard users out there that people have reported issues with.
Click to expand...
So, if the knife wasn't this way before dis- and re-assembly, you didn't have vertical blade play before, and you rotated the stop pin to no effect, then my guess is there's enough slop in the fits so that blade's lock ramp is a little farther away from the lock bar insert. You need to move the presentation side slab toward the butt to close that distance, i.e. "scale shifting".

You can try opening the knife, wedging the lock bar back so it's disengaged, hold the knife blade securely on the flat, presentation side down on the edge of a table with handle out into space and push down hard on the lock side. This is usually enough to shift the handle slabs without loosening anything, you can do the same thing wedging in a desk drawer or in a vice, as in the thread I linked earlier. If loosen anything first, just do the body screws a little and leave the pivot be.

I've re-assembled knives after cleaning and found the lock-up had changed. A little scale shifting gets them back where they were.
 
These are back in stock…. Any reason why these are now $850 when the one I bought 7 years ago was around $1000? Are these made differently than the other new F95’s that start over $1000? Odd that the price is lower…
IMG_9494.jpeg
 
bbk357 said:
These are back in stock…. Any reason why these are now $850 when the one I bought 7 years ago was around $1000? Are these made differently than the other new F95’s that start over $1000? Odd that the price is lower…
View attachment 2859019
Click to expand...

Elmax instead of M390, don’t know if this run has milled cut outs on the inside of the slabs.
That’s about all I see in difference.
 
Ajack60 said:
Elmax instead of M390, don’t know if this run has milled cut outs on the inside of the slabs.
That’s about all I see in difference.
Click to expand...
It’s tempting to buy it just to compare and see the difference.

Here is the screen shot of the one I bought in 2018:
IMG_9495.jpeg
 
bbk357 said:
It’s tempting to buy it just to compare and see the difference.

Here is the screen shot of the one I bought in 2018:
View attachment 2859027
Click to expand...

I’ve got one also.
Around the same time, the F95 with the micarta was offered in Elmax, plain bladed and solid slabs, single row bearings,cheaper than the other F95’s. I guess it was considered an entry level model.
 
Ajack60 said:
Elmax instead of M390, don’t know if this run has milled cut outs on the inside of the slabs.
That’s about all I see in difference.
Click to expand...
Ok you’re on to something here!
I took a screen shot of the description back in 2018 and it specifically says it’s milled to shed weight… and the new one weighs 5.1 and the old one comes in at 4.8.

Still surprised of the price difference but now we know at least part of it..

IMG_9496.jpeg
 
bbk357 said:
Ok you’re on to something here!
I took a screen shot of the description back in 2018 and it specifically says it’s milled to shed weight… and the new one weighs 5.1 and the old one comes in at 4.8.

Still surprised of the price difference but now we know at least part of it..

View attachment 2859028
Click to expand...

It also looks like the frame/blade finish is different than the older ones
 
bbk357 said:
These are back in stock…. Any reason why these are now $850 when the one I bought 7 years ago was around $1000? Are these made differently than the other new F95’s that start over $1000? Odd that the price is lower…
Click to expand...

I have one of the new ones and it does not have the milled cutouts inside the frame, Elmax instead of M390 and the newer version has a different blade profile (just another difference, not a reason the price is lower). Still MRBS with this knife. I’m not sure if the finish is different from the older versions but it’s nice looking and on par with all of my other F95’s.

(old pic posted back in January)
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Oh…and the 2018 model probably has 4mm blade stock, these newer ones have 3.5mm blades. It doesn’t make the knife itself thinner though, they’re just as thick overall and without the milled extracts they have a little extra weight. I like the choice though, the frame feels stout as hell because of it and it flings that thin blade with authority.
 
Jsega51 said:
I have one of the new ones and it does not have the milled cutouts inside the frame, Elmax instead of M390 and the newer version has a different blade profile (just another difference, not a reason the price is lower). Still MRBS with this knife. I’m not sure if the finish is different from the older versions but it’s nice looking and on par with all of my other F95’s.

(old pic posted back in January)
Click to expand...

Looks/sounds like the old MEFP was based off the higher end/3 bears version of the F95, and the new run is based on the budget version. Similar trend to what we've seen with some of the retailer exclusive collabs like the R1 pattern, E knives pattern, etc Quantums being based off the Ursus version with lower end blade steels, minimal weight reduction, simplified blade shapes, etc.

I tend to be a bit of a downer when it comes to Shiro releases - especially serial production releases lately - and the BearPattern unfortunately elicits the same response from me. Just looks like an absolute mess in my eyes, and the official photography did an awful job of highlighting the scratched polished finish on the high spots imo. Very much not my thing.

The Astrum lineup is looking pretty good and has been the most positive group of releases for me in quite some time. I really like the finishes they chose for this batch. Some irony in what would normally be the least exciting/change from what was already out there being the one i appreciate and enjoy the most.

The Fit Strip was another disappointment to see from my side - releasing an identical design and not even bothering to change the spec, with the only variable being blade and handle thickness is some shit. My only wonder now is if they're going to try to eclipse the RJM collabs and just keep releasing new flavors or new colors of the same design over and over again until they stop selling them.

For my part today was knife cleaning day for my daily carry CDX, and to save myself some time on setup I went ahead and cleaned up my Snecx Vision Q at the same time. Re-seating SRRBS remains one of my biggest pet peeves in the knife hobby but I'm certainly getting better at it - and the new grease I'm running helped keep the rollers in place for re-assembly so that was nice. Trying out some new Moly Hi-Slip grease in both knives and really, really pleasantly surprised. I was concerned on the thickness of the grease initially so I was pretty careful on application, but the action is buttery smooth already and I'm sure it will get smoother as the grease settles into the nooks and crannies it needs to.


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