The breaking of a new Schrade.

[stabman]

Lol, whut? Damn full tang knives!

You know it's just his default answer to everything.
"What should I get for EDC?"
"Only a huge honkin hollow handle knife will do for all your EDC and survivaling needs."

 

[craytab]

You know it's just his default answer to everything.
"What should I get for EDC?"
"Only a huge honkin hollow handle knife will do for all your EDC and survivaling needs."

Right. And EDC that 9" bladed knife IWB because if you don't the brush will take it. Lol.

 

[Hacked]

So what? He had the knife, he wanted to bring it along and do with it what it was designed for. What does being "less than optimal" have to do with it? It sounds like you are blaming him for bringing the knife in the first place.



Not really. That is the opposite of the technique that causes this type of breakage during battoning. Its when the handle is below the point and the point is being hit...that's when the pressure is paced on that spot and knives can break. Pushing down on the handle when the point is below the handle does not put stress on that spot. The technique was fine.




Looks along the grain to me. And I think you mean "parallel", not "perpendicular."

Yes I ment parallel not perpendicular. Sorry my experience and opinion differs with you and the OP, but you made sure to leave out the part where I stated there was obviously an issue with the knife based on the pictures the OP posted. It seemed that camping and splitting firewood was relatively new to the OP and so I figured I would give some advice. I'm no expert but I do process my own wood for my personal firepit, when car camping, and when disbursed camping. I don't Baton very often and I've never broken a knife doing so but I've always been advised not to push down on the handle and strike the tip with the baton simultaneously, are you are saying that the opsite is true? That seems to contrast logic, but what do I know.

 

[Inazone]

Yes I ment parallel not perpendicular. Sorry my experience and opinion differs with you and the OP, but you made sure to leave out the part where I stated there was obviously an issue with the knife based on the pictures the OP posted. It seemed that camping and splitting firewood was relatively new to the OP and so I figured I would give some advice. I'm no expert but I do process my own wood for my personal firepit, when car camping, and when disbursed camping. I don't Baton very often and I've never broken a knife doing so but I've always been advised not to push down on the handle and strike the tip with the baton simultaneously, are you are saying that the opsite is true? That seems to contrast logic, but what do I know.

I don't routinely baton, but I've done it previously (with another Schrade, as described) and by all accounts could reasonably expect the SCHF36 to be better suited to that task based on ergonomics and materials. Naturally, an unseen flaw would present a problem, and Schrade customer service was right to replace my knife. As far as technique goes, I was putting minimal pressure on the handle, really just enough to hold it securely. Everything seemed to be going by the book prior to the breakage. To be fair, the picture could be misleading because my first reaction was to try to extract the blade. I stopped at that point to take pictures, in case I needed them.

My purpose with this post isn't to encourage anyone to use the wrong tool for the job or suggest that I'm any sort of authority on wood processing with a knife, but rather to point out a flaw in a specific model/series of knife that seems to be gaining popularity.

 

[EChoil]

........It's a fixed blade knife.

Oh. OK.

 

[marcinek]

Yes I ment parallel not perpendicular. Sorry my experience and opinion differs with you and the OP, but you made sure to leave out the part where I stated there was obviously an issue with the knife based on the pictures the OP posted. It seemed that camping and splitting firewood was relatively new to the OP and so I figured I would give some advice. I'm no expert but I do process my own wood for my personal firepit, when car camping, and when disbursed camping. I don't Baton very often and I've never broken a knife doing so but I've always been advised not to push down on the handle and strike the tip with the baton simultaneously, are you are saying that the opsite is true? That seems to contrast logic, but what do I know.

Well, I don't see why you apologizing. And there was no agenda in leaving out the part where you said there was a flaw in the blade. It just didn't seem worth repeating., after you had already said it.

But please, everyone, for the record, be aware that Hacked said he felt there was a flaw in the blade

SI agree there was a fault in the knife the warped blade was likley not a good sign.

There. I repeated it for you.

As for "contrasting logic," no, it doesn't contrast logic at all if you understand simple machines, in particular levers. If you are beating on the tip of a knife, with the handle above the tip, and pushing down of the handle, you are not adding any drastic stress to the blade.

Now if you have the handle lower than the tip, pressing down on it, and, at the same time beating on the tip...now you got a lever with the fulcrum right about where our friend's knife broke, i.e., at the waekest spot.. Imagine a fat guy sitting on the ground on a see saw, and another fat guy jumping up and down on the other end. The see saw breaks where?

In your example there is no fulcrum.

 

[marcinek]

In your example there is no fulcrum.

I guess there may be a fulcrum, but it is towards the middle of the blade, where the blade has the greatest distance from spine to edge, or largest cross section. That isn't a weak spot.

 

[AntDog]

Right. And EDC that 9" bladed knife IWB because if you don't the brush will take it. Lol.

Yep. That thread was a hoot!

 

[Gaston444]

You know it's just his default answer to everything.
"What should I get for EDC?"
"Only a huge honkin hollow handle knife will do for all your EDC and survivaling needs."

You guys keep seeing full tangs failing while no quality Hollow Handle ever fails, but you keep not getting it... I've never even seen a picture of a quality Hollow Handle failing at the tang, except for a Model 18 that was thirty years old and a suspicious trade, probably because it was used as a thrower and already had a hairline crack in the weld...: The tang was still unbroken, but it was loosened from the handle... (Sam Wilson provided a picture of an Aitor JK I that had an actual tang broken (imagine that!!!), but it is debatable if those can be called "Good Quality", especially the more recent production: In any case the Aitor handle fixation has nothing to do with the way almost all other quality Hollow Handles are done...)

I guess this is the kind of opinion that is just not susceptible to reason...: Full tangs fail because they are vulnerable to all the holes that fix the scales, or the cut-outs to lighten them, or, like stick tangs, simply because they vibrate more from being... Longer... Length equals greater amplitude of vibration, which is why long tangs crack, particularly under batoning, just like longer blades are generally more susceptible to breakage than short ones...

But I guess this is just way too scientific for this crowd...

Gaston

 

[stabman]

You guys keep seeing full tangs failing while no quality Hollow Handle ever fails, but you keep not getting it... I've never even seen a picture of a quality Hollow Handle failing at the tang, except for a Model 18 that was thirty years old and a suspicious trade, probably because it was used as a thrower and already had a hairline crack in the weld...: The tang was still unbroken, but it was loosened from the handle... (Sam Wilson provided a picture of an Aitor JK I that had an actual tang broken (imagine that!!!), but it is debatable if those can be called "Good Quality", especially the more recent production: In any case the Aitor handle fixation has nothing to do with the way almost all other quality Hollow Handles are done...)

I guess this is the kind of opinion that is just not susceptible to reason...: Full tangs fail because they are vulnerable to all the holes that fix the scales, or the cut-outs to lighten them, or, like stick tangs, simply because they vibrate more from being... Longer... Length equals greater amplitude of vibration, which is why long tangs crack, particularly under batoning, just like longer blades are generally more susceptible to breakage than short ones...

But I guess this is just way too scientific for this crowd...

Gaston

You, sir, fail to come close to being scientific in anywhere but your own mind.
Your opinions are fine to hold--as they are your own--but do not approach the level of factual accuracy that you imagine them to.

Show me the hollow handle knife that can hold up to the abuse this knife does:

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php/868146-Behold-Stormbreaker-(with-WIP-pics)

5 years of me using the hell out of it every chance I get, and it still goes strong.
Stabbed through a 2x4, a half inch of plywood and into the cement?
Check (the tip needed some rework afterward...).

Chopping through frozen wood in the dead of winter?
Check.

Demolishing furniture I didn't feel like packing when moving?
Check.

Go ahead, I dare you.
I triple dog dare you, even.

Show me the made-up equation that "proves" my knife will fail due to some weird notion held nowhere but in your own head.

Do it.

 

[stabman]

And please tell us all again how a 9 inch blade fixed blade makes a great EDC knife...that was priceless "wisdom" to be sure.

 

[Riley12]

You guys keep seeing full tangs failing while no quality Hollow Handle ever fails, but you keep not getting it... I've never even seen a picture of a quality Hollow Handle failing at the tang, except for a Model 18 that was thirty years old and a suspicious trade, probably because it was used as a thrower and already had a hairline crack in the weld...: The tang was still unbroken, but it was loosened from the handle... (Sam Wilson provided a picture of an Aitor JK I that had an actual tang broken (imagine that!!!), but it is debatable if those can be called "Good Quality", especially the more recent production: In any case the Aitor handle fixation has nothing to do with the way almost all other quality Hollow Handles are done...)

I guess this is the kind of opinion that is just not susceptible to reason...: Full tangs fail because they are vulnerable to all the holes that fix the scales, or the cut-outs to lighten them, or, like stick tangs, simply because they vibrate more from being... Longer... Length equals greater amplitude of vibration, which is why long tangs crack, particularly under batoning, just like longer blades are generally more susceptible to breakage than short ones...

But I guess this is just way too scientific for this crowd...

Gaston

Uh, what?

 

[Quiet]

You guys keep seeing full tangs failing while no quality Hollow Handle ever fails, but you keep not getting it... I've never even seen a picture of a quality Hollow Handle failing at the tang, except for a Model 18 that was thirty years old and a suspicious trade, probably because it was used as a thrower and already had a hairline crack in the weld...: The tang was still unbroken, but it was loosened from the handle... (Sam Wilson provided a picture of an Aitor JK I that had an actual tang broken (imagine that!!!), but it is debatable if those can be called "Good Quality", especially the more recent production: In any case the Aitor handle fixation has nothing to do with the way almost all other quality Hollow Handles are done...)

I guess this is the kind of opinion that is just not susceptible to reason...: Full tangs fail because they are vulnerable to all the holes that fix the scales, or the cut-outs to lighten them, or, like stick tangs, simply because they vibrate more from being... Longer... Length equals greater amplitude of vibration, which is why long tangs crack, particularly under batoning, just like longer blades are generally more susceptible to breakage than short ones...

But I guess this is just way too scientific for this crowd...

Gaston

Wow, you have some real issues you need to work through.

P.S. Hollow handle knives? LOL Welcome to the 1980's! WOOO!!!!!

Yeah, no.

 

[Czechmate]

You guys keep seeing full tangs failing...
Gaston

Nah.

Fixed blades; all day, ery day...

Most of these have been well "tested". :thumbup:

 

[craytab]

You guys keep seeing full tangs failing while no quality Hollow Handle ever fails

You know, when someone says something like this it completely discredits every thing they have said in the past and will say in the future. It takes about 5 seconds to of googling to prove you wrong. Even your buddy Sam says hollow handle knives have failed. He as pictures too!

 

[Quiet]

Czechmate, excellent pics, brother. :thumbup:

Absolutely on point.

 

[Czechmate]

Czechmate, excellent pics, brother. :thumbup:

Absolutely on point.

Thank you. I like hollow handle knives (custom ones) but they have never caught my attention enough to make me push aside my fixed blades... As for Schrade; I liked the traditional old school stuff and that's about it LOL.

Choppers!

 

[Duane Sanders]

You guys keep seeing full tangs failing while no quality Hollow Handle ever fails, but you keep not getting it... I've never even seen a picture of a quality Hollow Handle failing at the tang, except for a Model 18 that was thirty years old and a suspicious trade, probably because it was used as a thrower and already had a hairline crack in the weld...: The tang was still unbroken, but it was loosened from the handle... (Sam Wilson provided a picture of an Aitor JK I that had an actual tang broken (imagine that!!!), but it is debatable if those can be called "Good Quality", especially the more recent production: In any case the Aitor handle fixation has nothing to do with the way almost all other quality Hollow Handles are done...)

I guess this is the kind of opinion that is just not susceptible to reason...: Full tangs fail because they are vulnerable to all the holes that fix the scales, or the cut-outs to lighten them, or, like stick tangs, simply because they vibrate more from being... Longer... Length equals greater amplitude of vibration, which is why long tangs crack, particularly under batoning, just like longer blades are generally more susceptible to breakage than short ones...

But I guess this is just way too scientific for this crowd...

Gaston

I think everyone missed where you said quality. All I see people mention is $5.00 mid 80s flea market specials. Don't know how the word quality would inspire them to think that. When you say quality I think of a Chris Reeve Mountaineer, even the Schrade rip off of the design in their 1070 will be a tough one to break unless there is a materials defect. In that case the CR would be a pile of junk too.



He said quality everyone. How could you only think of the flea market versions when he says that? Really?

 

[craytab]

I think everyone missed where you said quality. All I see people mention is $5.00 mid 80s flea market specials. Don't know how the word quality would inspire them to think that. When you say quality I think of a Chris Reeve Mountaineer, even the Schrade rip off of the design in their 1070 will be a tough one to break unless there is a materials defect. In that case the CR would be a pile of junk too.



He said quality everyone. How could you only think of the flea market versions when he says that? Really?

As it turns out I can read and did in fact read that word "quality". His own buddy admits to quality hollow handle knives breaking. Maybe do a minute of research on the subject and you will see is statement is completely wrong. "No quality hollow handle knife ever falls" is just a silly statement that is in no way true what-so-ever. To defend it is also silly.

 

[stabman]

He said quality everyone.

I know.
The ridiculous thing is that he thinks quality full tang blades break with great frequency.
He is just plain wrong about that, as he is with many other things he posts.