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the fallacy of firesteels
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I dont smoke (anymore), but always have a lighter on me (sometimes two) when going on a deep woods excursion
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Excellent post OP, good analysis well-argued and presented! :thumbup:
Firesteels ARE fun to use, and educational for the reasons you say. I carry a small block of fatwood with mine, but I also have a lighter, turbo lighter and lifeboat/storm matches (and hexamine blocks in my pack). Hopefully, in the scenario you mention, hopefully I'd at least have the lighter, turbo lighter, and the firesteel and fatwood in my pockets (that's where I carry them).
Firesteels ARE fun to use, and educational for the reasons you say. I carry a small block of fatwood with mine, but I also have a lighter, turbo lighter and lifeboat/storm matches (and hexamine blocks in my pack). Hopefully, in the scenario you mention, hopefully I'd at least have the lighter, turbo lighter, and the firesteel and fatwood in my pockets (that's where I carry them).
Mistwalker
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Agreed, I seldom even go on a short day hike without at least three ways to start a fire, much less winter time waterborne adventures. At the very least I always have a nano striker ferro rod on my key ring, a lighter in my pocket, and a plastic fresnel lens in my wallet. If I am actually out in a remote area then I carry this and another kit I recently built around a sealed ferro rod of similar proportions.
The contents of this one are:
7 REI Storm Proof matches
1 small ferro rod (nanoSTRIKER refill rod at the moment)
1 pack Katadyn Micropur water purification tabs
1 fire straw (PJCB sealed in straw)
1 Exacto knife blade
2 Flies
1 Heavy-duty sail needle
? 20 lb test spider wire (however much fits on a bobbin...)
Right now the tube only has the exacto blade, an extra red phos striker, and two flies in it so still has room for more hooks, a few weights, and something else..., and I could maybe shorten the tube and the matches some and get a 20mm button compass in it. I think I'll try to add the compass tomorrow.
.
Infi-del
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In my fire kit I have an orange Bic, an orange water proof match case with storm proof matches, and mischmetal fire steel (The huge .50" X 4" one), plus a piece of fat wood and vaseline cotton balls in another waterproof tube. I always have three ways of making fire at all times.
I carry the matchsafe, a rod, and a $40 butane "jet" lighter that can reach places in angles a BIC can't.
The rod isn't my first choice, but it always goes with me as part of the triple-threat fire apparatus. Cottonballs take up almost no room & add almost no weight when compressed in a double-seal baggie. They are instant starters if kept dry, with ANY source of ignition.
I've started a fire on snow with them & the right wood prep.
This year I've given rods to two young nephews & a niece on remote ATV excursions and taught them how to use them.
Along with their own matchsafes.
Backups are important, knowing how to use more than one method ditto.
Denis
The rod isn't my first choice, but it always goes with me as part of the triple-threat fire apparatus. Cottonballs take up almost no room & add almost no weight when compressed in a double-seal baggie. They are instant starters if kept dry, with ANY source of ignition.
I've started a fire on snow with them & the right wood prep.
This year I've given rods to two young nephews & a niece on remote ATV excursions and taught them how to use them.
Along with their own matchsafes.
Backups are important, knowing how to use more than one method ditto.
Denis
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If this has already been posted sorry but one thing to remember about Firesteels is that they never run out of fuel, the are water proof and they are not affected by cold, wind, rain etc. I say carry one and practice, practice, practice. But if it's life or death then yes the easiest and quickest method is always best.
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Thanks OP, that was a really great post.
I usually have a lighter and a firesteel with me. The firesteel is indeed more of a "f*ck around" kind of thing.
I might want to replace it with matches in the future. However, knowing how to use a firesteel appropriately might come in handy at a given time, you never know.
I usually have a lighter and a firesteel with me. The firesteel is indeed more of a "f*ck around" kind of thing.
I might want to replace it with matches in the future. However, knowing how to use a firesteel appropriately might come in handy at a given time, you never know.
Thanks for all the nice replies, folks. Lots of good information coming back.
Most people have commented on the value of having tinder with you (a fire kit, if you will), and there's no question that having your own tinder makes it easier to get a fire going. But the vast majority of the time I don't cary tinder with me, and that's not likely to change.
I've got little bits of fatwood, packets of wetfire, and tubes of rubber cement stashed here and there. If it's both very cold and very wet I ensure I have something like that on me (along with wood harvesting tools, sheets of aluminum foil, etc.), but it's just not something I carry around in my pockets every day, nor is it likely to ever be. Sometimes what you have in your pockets is all you get to play with.
One of the advantages of the stormproof matches is that the hot, long-lasting ignition source will utilize "tinder" that's already with me...paracord boot laces, nylon clothing tags and straps, synthetic watch band, cordura pack material; all of which will ignite from a match, even when damp. (Good luck with a firesteel, however.)
Obviously there is better tinder out there, but the problem I keep running into is while there is no limit to what a person could bring with them, there's definitely a limit to what a person can carry. A K&M matchsafe full of stormproof matches is hardly the end-all-be-all firestarter, but it is, to me, the very best solution that's still small enough and light enough that I'll carry it everywhere, regardless of what clothes I'm wearing or what I'm doing. I can move it from my pants pocket to the mesh pocket of my lifejacket while kayaking or stick it into the sleeve of a wetsuit while canyoning and never worry about the bulk or the weight or whether the contents will be safe.
There's a very fine line between being able to do more because of what you carry with you, and being able to do less for the same reason. I strive for the former, but simply refuse to accept the later.
One of my regular fishing haunts is a nice, quick 4,000 foot descent from the car to the river in 1.5 miles. On the trip up from the river my wet waders and wading shoes add four pounds of useless water, plus I need a liter of water to make the hike. You don't have to hike that trail too many times before you get real, real particular about what you're willing to put in the pack. I don't even bring my fishing vest...just a few select items from it.
I know that tinder weighs little and it can be a real game-changer, but that's true for everything that might come in handy given the right circumstance, be it tinder or a epinephrine pen or a folding saw or a satellite phone or a handgun. There's a time and place for all of it, but when it's 55 degrees and sunny and the next storm isn't due for seven days and your heel is sore from yesterdays hike and you're looking way, way, way down into the canyon where the fish are waiting, a fire kit in in an altoids tin just isn't going to make the cut, with me anyway.
It only makes sense to prepare for situations that are LIKELY to occur given our activities. Lots of people fall to their death or drown, but only an insane person would wear a parachute outside of an aircraft or swim fins outside of the ocean.
There's a difference, often a subtle difference, between thinking you're prepared when you really aren't; actually being prepared for reasonable situations; and being one of those people who takes their survival gear for a short walk because there's no room for anything else in their thirty-pound pack. I'm not going to give up my fishing gear or my beloved binoculars or fresh apples and sharp cheese or my flask of evening scotch because I've got a pack full of emergency gear that I have no real expectation of using. That's just me.
I've looked at putting tinder in the matchsafe, but I've never found a suitable tinder. Reliability is one of the great attributes of the matchsafe...finding my matches covered in vasaline or melted wax or rubber cement isn't going to be an improvement, and between a match-size piece of fatwood and a match, I'd rather have the match. I like having more matches with me. When it's windy or wet or particularly nasty and I'm tired and still have a lot to do before bed I don't think twice about pulling out a stormproof match to get the fire lit NOW. If the matchsafe was only for emergencies I doubt I'd cary it.
Obviously there's more than one right way to do something. This is just my way...for now.
Most people have commented on the value of having tinder with you (a fire kit, if you will), and there's no question that having your own tinder makes it easier to get a fire going. But the vast majority of the time I don't cary tinder with me, and that's not likely to change.
I've got little bits of fatwood, packets of wetfire, and tubes of rubber cement stashed here and there. If it's both very cold and very wet I ensure I have something like that on me (along with wood harvesting tools, sheets of aluminum foil, etc.), but it's just not something I carry around in my pockets every day, nor is it likely to ever be. Sometimes what you have in your pockets is all you get to play with.
One of the advantages of the stormproof matches is that the hot, long-lasting ignition source will utilize "tinder" that's already with me...paracord boot laces, nylon clothing tags and straps, synthetic watch band, cordura pack material; all of which will ignite from a match, even when damp. (Good luck with a firesteel, however.)
Obviously there is better tinder out there, but the problem I keep running into is while there is no limit to what a person could bring with them, there's definitely a limit to what a person can carry. A K&M matchsafe full of stormproof matches is hardly the end-all-be-all firestarter, but it is, to me, the very best solution that's still small enough and light enough that I'll carry it everywhere, regardless of what clothes I'm wearing or what I'm doing. I can move it from my pants pocket to the mesh pocket of my lifejacket while kayaking or stick it into the sleeve of a wetsuit while canyoning and never worry about the bulk or the weight or whether the contents will be safe.
There's a very fine line between being able to do more because of what you carry with you, and being able to do less for the same reason. I strive for the former, but simply refuse to accept the later.
One of my regular fishing haunts is a nice, quick 4,000 foot descent from the car to the river in 1.5 miles. On the trip up from the river my wet waders and wading shoes add four pounds of useless water, plus I need a liter of water to make the hike. You don't have to hike that trail too many times before you get real, real particular about what you're willing to put in the pack. I don't even bring my fishing vest...just a few select items from it.
I know that tinder weighs little and it can be a real game-changer, but that's true for everything that might come in handy given the right circumstance, be it tinder or a epinephrine pen or a folding saw or a satellite phone or a handgun. There's a time and place for all of it, but when it's 55 degrees and sunny and the next storm isn't due for seven days and your heel is sore from yesterdays hike and you're looking way, way, way down into the canyon where the fish are waiting, a fire kit in in an altoids tin just isn't going to make the cut, with me anyway.
It only makes sense to prepare for situations that are LIKELY to occur given our activities. Lots of people fall to their death or drown, but only an insane person would wear a parachute outside of an aircraft or swim fins outside of the ocean.
There's a difference, often a subtle difference, between thinking you're prepared when you really aren't; actually being prepared for reasonable situations; and being one of those people who takes their survival gear for a short walk because there's no room for anything else in their thirty-pound pack. I'm not going to give up my fishing gear or my beloved binoculars or fresh apples and sharp cheese or my flask of evening scotch because I've got a pack full of emergency gear that I have no real expectation of using. That's just me.
I've looked at putting tinder in the matchsafe, but I've never found a suitable tinder. Reliability is one of the great attributes of the matchsafe...finding my matches covered in vasaline or melted wax or rubber cement isn't going to be an improvement, and between a match-size piece of fatwood and a match, I'd rather have the match. I like having more matches with me. When it's windy or wet or particularly nasty and I'm tired and still have a lot to do before bed I don't think twice about pulling out a stormproof match to get the fire lit NOW. If the matchsafe was only for emergencies I doubt I'd cary it.
Obviously there's more than one right way to do something. This is just my way...for now.
jdk1
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And that's really what it comes down to. We all live (or don't) with our decisions. For me, if it's a situation where I'm going to carry a means to make fire, then I'm going to carry a little tinder too. But that doesn't mean I'm necessarily lugging a 30lb pack around, and it doesn't equate to the extreme example of "wearing a parachute when I'm not on an airplane."
But we all need to figure out what works for us, in the environment we're living and traveling in, based on real-world experience - not on what you've read on an internet chat board. Sounds like you've done that, so I respect your choices.
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Good post and thread. I think it's important to know the limitations of our equipment. Sort of a reality check. They are just tools that may help us in certain situations. I wouldn't rely completely on a firesteel (and imagine most of us wouldn't).
Still, I see no reason not to bring one. You can get one of the small, bare rods and they are only about the size of single match. To take it further, how much size/weight does it add to have 2 vaseline soaked cotton balls in a mini zip loc bag or straw. Really not much.
I agree with what one poster said about hand sanitizer not being a great fire starter. I've tried it a couple times in rainy situations and it didn't work for me.
Still, I see no reason not to bring one. You can get one of the small, bare rods and they are only about the size of single match. To take it further, how much size/weight does it add to have 2 vaseline soaked cotton balls in a mini zip loc bag or straw. Really not much.
I agree with what one poster said about hand sanitizer not being a great fire starter. I've tried it a couple times in rainy situations and it didn't work for me.
A couple of comments. All my firesteels get coated with clear fingernail polish. Keeps the deterioration to a minimum. Metal matches are waterproof and work well. I think Storm matches (including REI) absolutely suck. They burn furiously for 5 seconds, then go out. I've NEVER had one catch the wood part of the match on fire. NEVER. If I'm cold, I need more than 5 seconds.
When you absolutely, positively need fire, nothing beats a road flare. Raining? No problem. You can cut them down and put them in a ziplock bag, and then on a side pocket of your cargo pants. You WILL have fire.
When you absolutely, positively need fire, nothing beats a road flare. Raining? No problem. You can cut them down and put them in a ziplock bag, and then on a side pocket of your cargo pants. You WILL have fire.
There's no question that road flares are excellent fire starters. I only carry them on assisted travel...snow machine, motorcycle, canoe, etc. due to the weight, but they do work tremendously.
I've got to say though that this is the first time I've heard someone who uses firesteels say that five seconds of intense flame isn't enough to get a fire going. FWIW, the REI matches I timed burned for an average of twelve seconds.
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Pretty much the same here bud. I normaly have multiple redundant fire starting tools (lighters etc.) and or tinder. I can't afford to fart around in the cold in a serious situation. I do however try when I can to use a rod and local materials for practice. I find it to be quite fun challenging myself. But bottom dollar, believe me I do not screw around in some situations.
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Thanks for your very thorough and thought provoking post. I agree that having just a firesteel does not equal immediate fire.
There is nothing wrong with your system, it's well thought out and complete. However, I would argue that a firesteel with tinder is just as effective.
Tinder, with the right container, can be as compact and easy to carry as a match case. My favorite is the ESEE fire kit.
I can carry two petroleum jelly cotton balls (the jumbo size) attached to my firesteel. If I'm not in a hurry, I gather natural tinder to start my fires, but in a "need fire now" situation, I have a good amount of tinder available that will quickly take a spark and burn for some time.
I don't think that firesteels are more difficult to use with cold hands than matches. A firesteel in your hand and a knife in the other and using the arm muscles to strike would be gross motor skills. A match in the fingertips would perhaps require more fine motor skills. One handed fire will require more steps with the firesteel, but it can be done. The cotton ball can be ignited then moved into place with a knife blade or pinched between two sticks.
Looking at burn time, 14 stormproof matches at say 20 seconds each (12 second initial burn plus some stick) equals 4 minutes 40 seconds. This could be met or exceeded with two petroleum jelly cotton balls.
Just another possibility. Everyone should use what works best for them.
You have made me want to set up another fire kit based on a match case and try it out. I typically only use matches to light my pipe.
If I could suggest an improvement to your kit, some ranger bands around the outside of the match case could provide some long burning tinder.
There is nothing wrong with your system, it's well thought out and complete. However, I would argue that a firesteel with tinder is just as effective.
Tinder, with the right container, can be as compact and easy to carry as a match case. My favorite is the ESEE fire kit.
I can carry two petroleum jelly cotton balls (the jumbo size) attached to my firesteel. If I'm not in a hurry, I gather natural tinder to start my fires, but in a "need fire now" situation, I have a good amount of tinder available that will quickly take a spark and burn for some time.
I don't think that firesteels are more difficult to use with cold hands than matches. A firesteel in your hand and a knife in the other and using the arm muscles to strike would be gross motor skills. A match in the fingertips would perhaps require more fine motor skills. One handed fire will require more steps with the firesteel, but it can be done. The cotton ball can be ignited then moved into place with a knife blade or pinched between two sticks.
Looking at burn time, 14 stormproof matches at say 20 seconds each (12 second initial burn plus some stick) equals 4 minutes 40 seconds. This could be met or exceeded with two petroleum jelly cotton balls.
Just another possibility. Everyone should use what works best for them.
You have made me want to set up another fire kit based on a match case and try it out. I typically only use matches to light my pipe.
If I could suggest an improvement to your kit, some ranger bands around the outside of the match case could provide some long burning tinder.
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Nylon (polyamide) is not wonderful tinder and can self-extinguish even when subjected repeatedly to flame in a vertical position: http://www.panduit.com/groups/MPM-WC/documents/PerformanceData/098643.pdf
SaturatedShadow,
You may well be right about the relative "firepower" of your system. I've never been a big fan of the V&C, but I've never really given it a real workout, either.
What exactly are ranger bands?
Thomas Linton,
I agree that nylon is NOT great tinder, but properly prepared and added to wood based tinder it can add a needed kick to a fire of inferior quality wood.
Maybe there's a market out there for necklaces and bracelets made from fatwood. It's rather pretty when it's turned.
You may well be right about the relative "firepower" of your system. I've never been a big fan of the V&C, but I've never really given it a real workout, either.
What exactly are ranger bands?
Thomas Linton,
I agree that nylon is NOT great tinder, but properly prepared and added to wood based tinder it can add a needed kick to a fire of inferior quality wood.
Maybe there's a market out there for necklaces and bracelets made from fatwood. It's rather pretty when it's turned.
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