the fallacy of firesteels

Now that wasn't very nice. Personally I carry multiple bics and matches too and reserve the other stuff for play. To each his own.:)

Yeah, you're right. I'm going to get off this thread and take a BF break for a while. I'm getting too grouchy. Apologies to the OP.
 
Evening fellas. I carry a number of LMF. Steels and variations of Doan blocks ( either http://www.the-firestarter.com.au/ or a mini match magnesium fire starter. ) I always carry emergency tinder normally a tampon and a chap stick ( both have alternative uses) and some triangle strips of rubber inner tube.
I light fires with my LMF and local tinder when ever I can You are starting with a small flame normally so you have to have your fire built correctly for it to take. Good procedure. Then when you need fire NOW your practice has been in earnest. The basic principles are the way you do it everyday.
I think lighting your fire with a fire steel every time is the wilderness version of
"Train hard, fight easy".
Carl
 
Yeah, you're right. I'm going to get off this thread and take a BF break for a while. I'm getting too grouchy. Apologies to the OP.

Cool. We all need a break now and then. I hope you get the chance to do a bit of "outing" and bring us some more information, pictures and discussion. I don't know where you are in Colorado, but winter is there now? We don't get much winter here so winter camping techniques aren't of great importance to me, but I am still interested in learning. :) :thumbup:
 
I usually carry a LMF firesteel, peanut lighter and a Bic. I shall now be carrying storm matches too.
 
The fire ribbon "toothpaste" is another option, if you have the space.
You can lay it all over a basic wood foundation, build your upper structure over it, and you've got a very quick & reliable ignition.
Use as much or as little (preferably) as you feel appropriate.
Denis
 
Posted this before---waterproof matches and striker strip in miniature zip-loc bag, mini Bic, unused Scout Firesteel=3 firestarting methods at ~1.4oz total. That's actually in my first aid/emergency kit, along with a couple of trioxane tabs, while I carry a full size firesteel and Bic lighter. I generally use the firesteel for lighting my stoves, and for starting fires on the rare occasion I build one.
Under 1.5oz total for the backup stuff, though, and only .17oz for the bag with 20 matches. I don't even see depending on a fire for warmth in most circumstances, but there's no reason not to have all three for how little they weigh.
Fire is simple, but that doesn't mean it's always easy. In cold weather, I'm likely to have an alcohol or canister stove, anyway. Those will definitely start a fire. Plus there's the trioxane tabs.
People often seem to worry an awful lot about aesthetics, and limiting themselves to some particular method, while talking about "survival" and "skills". I think that's part of the survival fantasy thing, because if you really need a fire to get warm, you're not going to care how you get it.
 
People often seem to worry an awful lot about aesthetics, and limiting themselves to some particular method, while talking about "survival" and "skills". I think that's part of the survival fantasy thing, because if you really need a fire to get warm, you're not going to care how you get it.

This.
 
SaturatedShadow,

You may well be right about the relative "firepower" of your system. I've never been a big fan of the V&C, but I've never really given it a real workout, either.

What exactly are ranger bands?

As already stated, cut up bicycle inner tubes.

The rubber burns well even if somewhat wet and could be readily ignited from the matches. It could provide a little extra tinder that can be carried on the outside of the match case rather than take up space inside.

FireKitRangerBand.jpg
 
Great thread. you brought up alot of good points concerning the ups and downs of ferro rods. Whether it is startng a fire, purifying water or building a shelter, you must have the tools and the skills to perform the task a number of ways. Never rely solely on one device.
I have started carrying a magnesium ferro rod kit that alleviate the fine tender scenario. I can usually get away with twigs to get the fire going now instead of shaving down a branch. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EQIvjhN-FjE They have them at walmart for $6.00
I also usually have packed away in my pack are 2 lighters, matches and a plastic magnifying glass.
 
I too think it’s good to question and you have a well thought out debate and conclusion. My primary means to get a fire going is my firesteel and I have a few home-made versions that use a large pill-fob capsule as the handle which also house a couple of Vaseline-coated cotton balls for immediate tinder. I consider myself moderately skilled to get a fire going with this set up, even in less than ideal conditions. Heck, I even light my liquid fuel stoves with my firesteel!

Regardless, I still pack along a Bic in my pocket and one in my Kit Bag and one in my backpack if I’m wearing it. Additionally, I pack along the same K&M match case and storm-proof matches. Redundancy for some essentials is a good thing.

I’ve been dunked in sub-forty-degree rivers before and once your body starts shivering and you lose feeling and dexterity in your hands, it’s really difficult to operated some equipment items. Those moments, you really need to get a fire going as fast as possible. Having an instant combustion device and dry tinder are essential. Under those conditions, the first I would grab would be the Bic and if it was wet and non-operational, I would have the matches out; last option would be my firesteel.

Still, it’s good to always practice and use your firesteel as much as possible. I think this keeps your skill level up at preparing a fire, identifying and collecting natural dry tinder and improves your ability to quickly get a fire going. That skill only speeds up your use of a lighter or match when you really need it and need it quickly. The only defense to the firesteel is that it is a pretty robust device that last a good time and is reliable.

ROCK6
 
I just got back from a couple days fishing on a remote river in the Great Basin. It was a nice trip...not too cold and no rain. I didn't fall in and if I had I'd be more at risk of breaking my pole than getting swept downstream.

Dry willow was abundant and I used a firesteel and some fatwood for fire lighting which worked fine, but it brought up another reason I've adopted stormproof matches as my go-to fire starter. Wind.

Ever tried lighting a piece of fatwood with a firesteel in a strong breeze? It doesn't work. Neither does a lighter, or a regular match. And it's easy to sit at a keyboard and think that there's always a way to make a wind-protected pocket to light a fire, but that's just not true. I've watched two good outdoorsmen spend the better part of ten minutes trying to get a cigarette lit with a butane lighter while using cowboy hats for shelter against the wind. And it wasn't THAT windy...maybe 20mph. But it was steady, and out in the open without trees, there's no shelter from it.

I'm sure there are tinders that will catch from a ferro rod in a strong breeze, but I haven't tried them. With twelve seconds of burn time from a stormproof match regardless of the wind, I don't see a lot of reason to other than curiosity.

Wind is also the bane of regular matches and most lighters. Getting a cigarette lit is a lot easier than getting a fire lit, and successfully using a bic in windy conditions is not guaranteed.

As mistwalker and pitdog have proven in other threads, it's one thing to believe in your system and it's another to go out and really test it. I don't care what anyone else uses for their fire starting system, but I encourage everyone to test what they cary and really analyze if it will work under less than optimum conditions.
 
P1030990.jpg


It's been raining for days here. It rained an inch and a half last night alone. I got up this morning, looked out the window and thought "what a crappy day to make a fire". So that's what I did, first in the wood stove, then outside in the rain.

Temp: 51 degrees
Dew point: 52 degrees
Humidity: 97%
Raining steady, occasionally hard.
Wind 12 gusting to 24 mph.

I picked a dead pine that was down, but not all the way on the ground. You could break it, but you had to bend it past 180 degrees to do so.

P1030991.jpg


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I used my usual puukko neck knife for eight minutes to shave as much as I could off the top of the tree, staying with a piece that went from about half wrist-thick to thumb thickness at the end.

Eight minutes of shavings:
P1030996.jpg


I put what I thought were the best shavings from deeper in the tree at the bottom and stacked the wetter shavings on top of it. All of the shaving were coarse and wet, both from the condition of the tree and from the rain. The match was also wet from the time it took to photograph it to light it.

One REI storm match inserted at the bottom of the pile and it lit off. Total time from tree to ignition: nine minutes (not including the picture taking).

Twenty seconds after applying the one and only match:
P1030997.jpg


From this point I kept shaving down pieces of the tree and feeding the shavings onto the fire. As the fire got larger and the pieces got smaller, I added them and grabbed the next piece. It didn't take long for the fire to shatter the piece of tile I built it on. Once the fire got to the point that I could add wood without shaving it, I quit.

P1030998.jpg


What I learned:

Storm matches rock! But I already knew that.

As Mistwalker stated at the beginning, making this work requires some knife skills. I intentionally used the crudest movements to make my shavings: stick braced on the ground and my elbow and wrist locked, using my torso to move the knife against the stick. I wasn't going for pretty feather sticks, I was trying to reduce as much wet wood as I could in the shortest amount of time.

Regardless of what knife you carry, it needs to be shaving-sharp and able to quickly and efficiently make wood shavings. If it can't, what ever other attributes it has may be of little value.

Almost any wood will burn if you can shave it fine enough in great enough quantity. This pile of pine shavings caught fire well from the match, and with some tending it burned hot and built quickly. It was also sappier than some I've come across. Luck of the draw on that.

In the scenario where there is really no small wood available, having your own tinder will ensure a better start to a pile of shavings, but nothing short of a road flare would have a chance of igniting wet, thumb-thickness branches unless you have a knife or ax to reduce them, and even that is NO guarantee. I've seen people use an entire can of charcoal lighter and still be unable to keep a fire lit on a warm, dry summer afternoon, so relying on ignition sources rather than technique isn't a good strategy.

Nice puukko who made it? thanks
 
Personally the ferro rod is my first choice if i need a fire right now. I dont carry matches but have never tried the nice ones that burn that long. I am a smoker and carry a zippo daily, though if i need a for certain fire right now its still the ferro rod.

If i lived in a different climate, that might be different. But here in wyoming we have lots of wind and hardly any rain. Wind kills flame until it is a moderate sized fire. Bic lighters, regular matches even zippos cant compete with the wind. But sparks and coals need the wind, to get to flame. Ever see someone coax a coal from fire by friction or the original flint and steel? As soon as a spark catches, they hold the tinder bundle up and blow into it. Here you dont have to blow into it, the incessant wind does it for you!

I do carry cotton balls, regular and parriferin soaked. But i rarely use them. Tons of sagebrush bark, aspen, sometimes cottonwood bark all nice and fluffy and ready to go everywhere.

Plus the fact that my hands dont work all that well when cold, its much easier to grab bark, knife and ferro rod, put knife in fist on top of bark, put ferro rod against the knife edge and pulls ferro rod. As bad as my hands get when i really need that fire, i doubt i could get a matchsafe open, get a match out and strike it without breaking it.

I did find myself in close to the same situation as the beginning post awhile back. I slipped on some rocks while fishing a lake and fell in. Went up to my neck in water that was just above freezing, parts of the lake were froze on top, about a foot of snow on the ground. By the time i got myself pulled out, my legs didnt really work well anymore. I stumbled to a clear patch, where i could get to some sagebrush, peeled some of the bark from the underside of one of their short "trunks", and tryed to get a fire going with ferro rod, found out that the water from my shirt was running down my arms and soaking tinder, took shirts and jacket off, got more tinder and had a fire going in a minute or two. Got warmed up enough to walk back to the car about a mile away. My hands were shaking so bad while i was lighting the fire that i know i could not have struck a match.


Just my $0.02, like i said if i lived in another climate i might prefer matches, lighter, road flares, ect...
 
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Forget messing around with matches and those stick thingies, I carry a cut down road flare :cool:

Seriously though, a road flare cut down to 4-5" and sealed in a zip lock fits in a pocket and burns long enough to dry out and ignite kindling.
 
Forget messing around with matches and those stick thingies, I carry a cut down road flare :cool:

Seriously though, a road flare cut down to 4-5" and sealed in a zip lock fits in a pocket and burns long enough to dry out and ignite kindling.
I can build a fire with about anyone in adverse conditions But if the weather may get to the point my life may depend on fire, I drop one of these in a side pocket along with a fire steel, bic, storm matches and some tinder jute tied around cotton and dip the whole thing in wax.
http://www.orionsignals.com/product-groups/fire-starters/product/97.html
when it to fire and knives redundancy is the game I play
Roy
 
Great thread. Seems like a case of "use what you practice with." Know your local tinder sources. Do what works for you.

I prefer a firesteel and i keep PJ cotton balls in my K&M. They are just as disposable as matches, and matches seem less forgiving when and if you lose dexterity. In the same setup I can get more fires than I could fit matches in the K&M. Another consideration is accidental discharge. If the matches are packed too tightly and you take a nasty fall and impact the container you could have a match bomb in your pants. I know it seems like a stretch but hey, we're talking about survival.

It should also be said that there is a "proper" technique to strike a match when your life depends on it.

ScreenShot2012-11-24at51251PM.png
 
I agree with the OP 1000000% I made a similar post at REI on a firesteel review. Like everyone and their uncle called me names and such because they disagreed so much. I am a person that hikes and camps or works out of doors about 320 days a year. I carry a firesteel because yes, it is the ultimate backup. But when a fire is needed I grab waterproof matches 100% of the time first.
 
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