THE Hollow Handle Knife Thread

TAH, not Neeley, Andy Wood. The only non numbered knife he made while working under the LLC banner for John Hill; for the short time that it was. I think he only made 36 numbered knives, 2 protos (as marked) and this one.
 
TAH said:
Usually means it's the lowest grade of 440 steel available. If it were 440C, or even 440B, they would proudly reveal it. Combine this steel with Japanese made and I'm out.
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"Combine the steel with Japanese made"?!

What does that mean?

It's been a long while since Japanese made was associated with low-end... Nearing fifty years at least... Is it just the issue of wanting to buy American?

Gaston
 
Bear Claw Chris Lappe said:
^ This, although I admit the confusion on this isn't helped by the use of the word "grappling" in the patent and advertising literature. But when you read the designers descriptions, the anchor thing is more what they meant.
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IIRC the 'horns' are for holding a divers gear with the knife jammed into something whilst the 'operator' is being otherwise engaged.
 
gundy said:
TAH, not Neeley, Andy Wood. The only non numbered knife he made while working under the LLC banner for John Hill; for the short time that it was. I think he only made 36 numbered knives, 2 protos (as marked) and this one.
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Thanks for the extra info. Andy did a great job on it! :thumbup:
 
Gaston444 said:
What does that mean?

It's been a long while since Japanese made was associated with low-end... Nearing fifty years at least...
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That is true, but not every knife made in Japan is high quality either. Also, the fact that it is a nearly exact copy of another company's knife, at a relatively low price point for a hollow handle knife, tells me they are just trying to make a quick buck off the success of the Buckmaster. Combine this with not being completely open about the steel and it all adds up to a red flag for me.
 
I understand about the Parker K-692 being inspired by the Buckmaster, but it is not exactly a clone... In any case my main gripe with Japanese made knives is the usually disastrous thick geometry, and this one happens to have the best geometry I have seen on a Japanese-made knife (and probably better than the original Buckmaster). Only the Al Mar "Special Warfare" was comparable in geometry among Japanese knives, and my Al Mar was far, far more loosely ground, with the point off-centered very badly, and no symmetry at all in the blade grinds... I even had to bend it to make the point look somewhat straighter...

The Parker does seem like a dubious origin (especially mine which is not even a Parker, being brand-less...), but I don't let price or origin influence what I can actually observe. It is dead straight in every respect, the edge being perfectly consistent in thickness, and fully centered to the spine (things which most customs flub, including my two Liles, and also my Cox to a lesser extent), and this consistency in thickness greatly enhances re-sharpenability, something really obvious when you try to re-sharpen a Lile or even my Cox... Those custom edges seem crude in comparison... The perfection of the edge, the steel and the geometry might actually be the best I have ever used and chopped with... I will take Japanese factory (if thin enough...) over a US custom any day...

It is too heavy and crudely industrial-looking for most people that's for sure...

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Gaston
 
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Hey, if it gets the job done and you're happy with it, that's what matters. As for its appearance, it isn't too industrial looking for me. Like the Buckmaster, it's a great looking knife, especially when the anchors and lanyard ring are removed and the extra weight can be advantageous when chopping.
 
After many years of searching and waiting, I am thrilled to report that I finally acquired my “grail” hollow handle survival knife! The knife was made 30 years ago by custom knifemaker, Steve Allen, under the name Running River Knives in Riverside, Rhode Island. The knife is so rare that it isn't even listed in "The Survival Knife Reference Guide" by Douglas Berner, but I think it is one of the best designed survival knives ever created, yet very few people have ever heard of it. It is obvious that Steve intentionally did not follow the trend of sawteeth and oversized double guards that was so common and expected on knives during the 1980s hollow handle knife craze. Instead, I believe that Steve set out to build a practical cutting tool designed for a woodsman.

The Running River ‘Wilderness’ Knife, as I call it, has a robust, utilitarian, no non-sense appearance. The 7” x 1 ½” x ¼” Bowie clip blade is made of 440C stainless steel. The guard, handle, and buttcap are also stainless. The blade grind falls between flat and convex - leaning more towards flat. A one inch tang runs the full width of the handle and is machine fitted to tightly fit within the heavy steel tube. It is then threaded and epoxied for maximum strength. The lack of sawteeth on the spine is a preference of mine, as I have never found sawteeth to be useful for my needs and often question if they might compromise the blade’s strength in some situations.

One of my favorite features of the Running River knife is the short top guard that allows easy thumb placement on the spine for better blade control and cutting force. Double guards have always been a pet peeve of mine, as they restrict grip and are more suited for and associated with fighting knives. The generous handle length welcomes various grips without cramping the hand. At the bottom of the handle tube, there is a flat steel plate that creates a nicely finished “floor”. The oversized buttcap atheistically and functionally balances the knife and enhances the grip for chopping. The buttcap threads are cut deep and sharp, which explains its smooth operation. The guard edges are uniformly beveled and the lanyard hole is countersunk.

A high quality, Marbles brass compass is included in the handle, but not permanently installed in the buttcap. I much prefer this set up for the convenience of taking continuous bearings without the need to unscrew the buttcap each time and it allows the buttcap to remain in place, so the handle contents are not lost. Additionally, if the buttcap is used for pounding, a permanently installed compass risks being damaged and can be expensive to replace depending on its quality and availability.

The sheath is constructed of heavy saddle leather and incorporates two innovative design features that I have never seen before. First, the hone pocket is recessed into the sides of the front panel, so the stitching remains flat and less exposed. Second, the leg tie is threaded through the slots at the bottom of the hone pocket, then wrapped around the body of the sheath and leg holding it firmly in place. This method eliminates the use of a flimsy tab at the bottom of the sheath and works great for heavy knives that have a tendency to flop around. If the tie is removed, there is no evidence of a tie down attachment, which gives the sheath a clean look. On the back of the sheath, there is an optional high-ride belt loop with a quick release “pull-the-dot” snap.

Overall, it is evident that Steve took great pride in his work, because both knife and sheath are exceptionally well made, carefully thought out, and beautifully shaped and proportioned. Everything from grind lines to knurling to assembly to leatherwork is executed with precision. Yet, if I could use only one word to describe the knife, it would be SOLID. Its tank-like construction gives a real sense of confidence in its ability to perform and withstand hard use. After all these years of admiring the Running River knife in old magazine advertisements, it certainly exceeded my expectations. It’s hard to believe this knife flew under the radar and wasn’t more popular back in the glory days. Sadly, it was probably dismissed as just another “Rambo knife” and consequently soon passed into hollow handle survival knife history.






 
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TAH, that is gorgeous. Can you take a couple of more pictures to show the blade-to-guard connection, and down the hollow to show the full width comment you made?
 
Very nice knife. What a condition after all this time!

The peculiar "high ride" option is the one thing I find most innovative about the sheath, particularly with the pull-the-dot snap, which is a really high end touch... So far I have only seen that snap on Al Mar "200 initial runs" nylon sheaths...

Another thing is the very peculiar grind with no plunge line: I don't even think I have ever seen that before...

Excellent photos btw.

Gaston

P.S. Nice to hear detailed views about what a "Survival"-type knife should be, even if they are different from mine.

G.
 
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Here's a few videos about knife survival kits that I thought had some unusual and interesting ideas, even if they are all pouch carried: The water purifying crystals method in the first one I thought was interesting:

https://youtu.be/mTpfUgXKK1I

Here I liked the magnesium fire starter, and especially the "Snus Camel" tin that is like a rubber-sealed altoids tin with a locking hinged lid and rounder corners:

https://youtu.be/IT4kZpQq4uE

I think it is that one above that has an interesting computer-related sealed plastic box, with magnesium shavings inside that you can sprinkle like salt to help start a fire...

Not so impressed with the contents on this one below (3 redundant low-quality sharpeners, plus a big rust preventing swipe cloth!), but the idea of screwing-in a double mag pouch around the entire sheath I thought would be interesting to those who like Kydex sheaths:

https://youtu.be/li2q4vV1Sog

There are others like this, often centered around the Esee-5, which seems like quite a benchmark to many people... I realize now it is actually a Carbon Steel knife, which just makes me roll my eyes, but never mind... I really enjoyed these ones, so I thought they would give some ideas... Looking for "Survival Knife kits" will yield many interesting videos...

What always amuses me about people dismissing Hollow Handle Survival Knives is that they always say you can carry extra stuff on the sheath and not in the handle... They say this exactly as if there was something preventing doing both!

Gaston
 
guns_and_labs said:
TAH, that is gorgeous. Can you take a couple of more pictures to show the blade-to-guard connection, and down the hollow to show the full width comment you made?
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Thanks, g&l. I would be more than happy to take additional photos, but there is no way to capture the blade-to-guard connection. As mentioned in my post, the interior floor of the handle tube has a steel plate covering any view of the blade connection. My comment regarding the full width tang was taken from an article by Larry Crehan, "Running River Knives", Knife World, August 1987. When the knife is picked up, it quickly becomes obvious that the blade is going nowhere. :)

Gaston444 said:
Very nice knife. What a condition after all this time!

The peculiar "high ride" option is the one thing I find most innovative about the sheath, particularly with the pull-the-dot snap, which is a really high end touch... So far I have only seen that snap on Al Mar "200 initial runs" nylon sheaths...

Another thing is the very peculiar grind with no plunge line: I don't even think I have ever seen that before...

Excellent photos btw.

Gaston

P.S. Nice to hear detailed views about what a "Survival"-type knife should be, even if they are different from mine.

G.
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Thanks Gaston. The lack of a plunge line grabbed my attention as well. I don't recall ever seeing that technique either. I agree with you that everyone has their own preferences regarding "survival" knife features. That's what makes this thread so interesting. :thumbup:

Bear Claw Chris Lappe said:
Congrats on finding a grail knife, I know how that feels! That is one seriously well designed knife!
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Thanks Chris! Half of its beauty is its simplicity.
 
Gaston444 said:
What always amuses me about people dismissing Hollow Handle Survival Knives is that they always say you can carry extra stuff on the sheath and not in the handle... They say this exactly as if there was something preventing doing both!
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Good point! Thanks for the links. I'll check out the videos when I have more time. I never understood the use of a plastic capsule (inside the hollow handle) to help "organize" the contents. That capsules takes up precious space.
 
A local customer asked me to "Alaska Up" his Buckmaster 184. He carried it in the service, and just wants to "have" it now. It has a spacer of blue/brown mammoth ivory, a handle of moose antler with burl and a cap of musk ox horn. This kind of conversion isn't for everybody but he sure likes it.

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