THE Hollow Handle Knife Thread

[thedemonbeast]

Wow!! I just found a number on my handmade Martin MCE II knife that really excites me!! Just under the tang right above the handle, I saw the number 14!! I am guessing that my MCE II is the 14th one that Newt Martin has made. I know he has made quite a few more after mine. That is a pretty low number considering!!

I love my Martin MCE II!!! I only wish that Newt still made the MCE III knives! He started making them, which were 5/16" thick and quite a bit bigger than his MCE II. But he quit making them shortly before I ordered my knife. He said naking the MCE III was just way too much grinding and work.

Anyway, maybe I can run across one for sale at some point. Still, I love my handmade Martin MCE II!!!

 

[thedemonbeast]

If you want one badass hollow handled knife, get yourself a Ray Matton handmade First Blood knife!! Ordered mine from Ray a couple years ago just before he retired from the Canadian Army after 34 years!!

So far, mine is the last one he has made. He said he had to get used to civilian life and also get his knife shop worked on and set up before he could make knives again!!

Another knife maker that stands above all is Andrew Clifford. That knife maker, I tell ya, is truly One Of The Best and One Of A Kind!!

And then there is the Knifemaker Legend...Gil Hibben!! That awesome name needs no words in the knifemaking world!! His name says it all!! Truly a legend in his own time!!

 

[JD Mandrell]

Wow!! I just found a number on my handmade Martin MCE II knife that really excites me!! Just under the tang right above the handle, I saw the number 14!! I am guessing that my MCE II is the 14th one that Newt Martin has made.

Nope, when I got mine a few months ago, it had a "15" on it in the same place, I asked Newt what that meant and it's the year it was made.

 

[thedemonbeast]

Hey, thanks buddy!! I never thought of that!! LOL. Yep, that is when mine was made!! Wife bought mine in January 2014 for my birthday!! Well, she told me to pick out a knife and knife maker for my birthday. I immediately chose Martin Knives but had a hard time choosing which of the 3 styles I wanted!! LOL. Settled for the awesome MCE II. Glad I did, too!!

My next knife from them I want to be the 9" Aparro knife. Hopefully in a few months I can place an order.

Anyway, thanks for telling me buddy!!

Nope, when I got mine a few months ago, it had a "15" on it in the same place, I asked Newt what that meant and it's the year it was made.

 

[Gaston444]

This is the MCE III referred to, compared to a MCE II: The III must truly have some wild chopping power...:

I still find Martin's hollow handled dagger (the "Deguello") to be one of the more intringuing knives I have ever seen: It is a beautifully restrained, well-proportioned and well executed design, and very unique: The only other hollow handle dagger I can think of is the large factory made Aitor Desert King (clunky plastic sheath and all), a double edged version of the 9" "Jungle King I": My first and only hollow handle that I truly bought and owned at 15 in 1985, right in the middle of the genuine "Golden Age" of hollow handles (unlike others teenagers, I saved my pennies over months, and never went for the cheap hollow handles)... The contruction, finish and original version leather sheath were all excellent, but I didn't know back then how to fix the edge geometry, and, even with good stones, 440C proved completely unsharpenable with low-sabre geometry this poor... (Just like the Hellion and the Neeley SA9, with coarse enough diamond hones, the JK I today could be made sharp, or at least sharp for intial short-term use, and some have done it and described it as a revelation...)

With the original leather sheath and reversed triangular sawteeth, what I have learned since is to never get rid of a valuable knife! Today the then-available sheath version I special ordered 30 years ago is so rare, even finding an online photo of it took some serious research! Mine was the slimmer leather sheath with just an extra skeleton knife. I remember the leather quality was absolutely first-rate, and still seems to this day to have been the best, smoothest finished, hardest-surfaced and most scratch resistant leather I have ever owned (including vs Randall and Chris Reeves, maybe even the Neeley), but maybe this is just my youthful memory fooling me...:

The funny thing is a year later (1986), I saw another Jungle King I in a store, and the leather quality, and especially the finish on the leather's edges, was absolutely crap compared to mine...: Square cut rough edges, not beautifully round polished leather edges as on mine, and even the stitching itself seemed poor... I guess this trouble with quality control is why they dropped the leather sheaths...

The value, and morale effect, of the sheer size is what has stayed with me since, but in the end the poor edge geometry and also the very bulky handle were the two disapointments that killed off my enthusiasm for this thing (the handle diameter, and length, was just gigantic, and the searing memory of this to this day makes me love how the Neeley SA9 and Chris reeves Jereboam are so modest and "just right" in outside handle diameter...). I never liked the plastic sheath the Jungle King I soon got saddled as the only option (until 1987 I think you could choose), nor the new style of sawteeth that look so lame compared to the originals: The original triangular teeth style clogged just a bit, but they were one of the better designs for wood I remember trying... The offset double rows of triangles looked particularly menacing as well, and hey, that matters too: It is argueably the most important function of sawteeths!

The fact that the sawteeth were reversed to not impede withdrawal should also have pleased Dave!

Here is the current version with he current teeths:

Note above how even the dagger has much taller secondary bevels than the bowie version... No wonder I could never get it sharp...

Interesting hollow handles that I cam accross in a thread thedemonbeast started: I thought they were much too interesting to not re-post here...:

Posted by : deovolens

Spanish knifes are not bad at all for their price.Prices in the USA for custom knives are very honest (low).
Just for our eyes two european survivals: one Tanazacq (France) the other Hill knives (Holland):

Gaston

 

[thedemonbeast]

Hey, I have an Aitor Jungle King 1 also. I got the newer one though...with the hard plastic dura cord wrapped sheath, and with all the extras. My wife got it for me a couple years ago as a Christmas gift!! And you are absolutely right on getting it sharp. I have been working hard on it to get my desired edge.

I am almost there. I got the Black one and am going to get the Silver JK 1 next time. I think they have a lifetime warranty. However, mine is still prestine shape minus a few scratches. But I plan to re-coat it this summer with dura coat. I will gind it challenging to try and cover all the small and fine printing on it.

But I love that knife. I do love the sheath too. It is definitely not made cheap, lol. I also love all the goodies in it too.

Your older one with the leather sheath looks fantastic. Mine came with straighter sawteeth than what I have seen on a few.

This made me go round and round with the seller about it being the real deal Aitor or a ripoff one. Wife paid about $270 for it and I told that company I was checking thoroughly to make sure it was the real genuine Aitor and not one these cheapo Chinese copies.

I even threatened a lawsuit...that is how serious I am about my high end knives. But they assured me it was the real deal. I called someone that works with Aitor and after he verified the serial number and the one Aitor stamp thats never on the cheapo knives, I finally learned it is the real deal.

He said for the teeth, the newer ones which I have are made that way...straighter teeth, although still very sharp. Plus he also said that no Aitor knife is made the exact same way.

He also told me that the Aitor Knives are like 80 to 85% made by hand and just the detailed work is by machine. Not sure about that one.

But I did read a few places about Aitor that they are made by hand, just not by the same person. Each process is made by a different person, kind of the same process that Randall Knives use.

Speaking of Randall Knives, when I first started buying knives again, Randalls were all I'd hear about. So I decided to check out the #14 and the #18. I love hollow handle knives.

But although there is no question that they are fantastic knives, they just didn't feel right to me. The model 18 felt light and flimsy, although I am sure it isn't flimsy. But once you have held and used a handmade Andrew Clifford, Martin Knives, or Ray Matton hollow handle knife or a Hibben hh knife, well, to me most others just go by the wayside, even the popular high end Randalls.

But still, in no way am I degrading Randall knives...They sure must be doing something right to get that high notoriety they have. But it is just my preference I guess.

I love knives that have some weight and substance to them. I am a big man and hefty knives dont bother me at all. In fact, I prefer them.

This knife isn't a hollow handle knife but I ordered a Bushmaster Bushcraft knife from Tim Spry of Spry Knives. He gave it its name from my suggestion, lol. But anyway, that thing is a D2 steel full tang beast...true convex edge that is razor sharp!! Tim makes awesome knives but I warn you, they are Not for the feminine-type weak men, lol. (Not cutting anyone down at all...just describing). He just makes real beasts.

Well, that is a rap!! Have a great day and ttyl!!

 

[Gaston444]

I agree the Randall Model 18 (and the Model 14) feels way too blade-light in the wrong way: Absolutely no chopping power...: They are listed as 12-14 ounces (broad tolerances), but mine feels more like 10, and fairly blade light too... On the plus side, it doesn't feel flimsy at all in the guard or handle-blade junction, as the massive radiused silver soldering is really very impressive around the guard...: The real reason it is so light is the blade is 3/16" thick and less, and the big grind bevel of the 18's back robs even more blade weight, while also making the saw useless on wood...

The big spine bevel even makes batonning quite impractical, even more so if the saw is there...: It looks good, but the back bevel is just not a functional design... I know the back is supposed to be for thin metal cutting, but a plainer version without back grind would be a much better, heftier knife for most uses...

That long back grind bevel is probably the main reason it is so blade light, but there are other minor causes I find annoying: If the knife is advertized, as far as I know, as 1/4" stock, why is it 3/16"? Also, on both my Model 18 and my Model 14, the blade is 7.4", and one tenth of an inch is not exactly peanuts: My TOPS Hellion was advertized as 9", and it is so on the dime... Also my Hellion is not heat warped into a very slight curve, like my 18...

The funny thing is my Model 18's light weight was made even lighter by having to grind off half the guard to make it look centered (given the manufaturing precision was so poor, it was completely both askew and off-centered from the factory)...: It really is like 10 ounces now, and by mating it with an Eagle sheath, it suddenly found its niche(!): The Eagle sheath can take a shoulder strap, and it is now light enough to be carried under arm in perfect confort: It has worked out beautifully, as before I ground down its badly oversized guard (another really bad design error, fortunately avoided on their Model 14), the knife was completely incompatible with the nylon Eagle sheath, and thus the shoulder strap...

With the ground down guard, the knife has noticeably less heft, but the shoulder carry makes this completely worthwhile, as it has now reached into a sort of "concealment knife" category, where such compromises are not only acceptable, but an advantage: 10-11 ounces is the upper limit in weight for a shoulder strap...

I do not find the Model 18 and 14 to be really serious knives for outdoor use, given the blade-light feel, but their extreme edge thinness does make them very good every day users: This thinness is really unique among largeish fixed blades, and makes Randalls a really useful buy, despite their design flaws... Also, the edge thinness encourages use, as you know they will not be hard to bring back...

Another problem they have is that the points are so thickly ground they need to be sent back for a re-grind... When I sent my Model 14 back to Randall, they charged me $40, but did a fine job thinning down the point, which was thick enough for no-sheath knife fighting training!

I have since learned of their Model 12 with a 14 style clip grind (I dislike curved bowie clips), and I think I might give that one a try if I can find a non-stag handle version: A knife this large with an edge this thin might be able to chop wood nearly silently! Of course, the unique forged 440B stainless is a great attraction as well, as almost nobody else does this...

If everybody did edges this thin I would ignore Randalls, but since so few do, I don't feel like spending months thinning metal down, and then not using said metal because of all the work I put into it!

As funny as this may sound, sharp Randalls are easily fixed or replaceable, while a sharp Hellion is not...

Gaston

 

[WoodlandChaplain]

Excellent thread, Sam.
No need for the caveat IMO; that you make HH knives doesnt matter - you have clearly demonstrated, that you have a genuine interest in using the HH knives. Not least in 'the other' HH practical knife thread, where you have hitherto shown remarkable restrant. Keep up the good work

Here is my Buckmaster again - I might put together a kit for the handle



I also bought a CR Shadow III at some point, so your CR is good to see - especially as its a user.

I have an Buckmaster. Unused with the box. Any idea what it might be worth?

 

[Gaston444]

If the finish is perfect, and every item is there in good condition, for a good Buckmaster you are looking at US $800, and with a perfect box and original papers, $1200-1400 is not unheard of...

I am not a fan because of the absurd 24 ounces weight (over twice a Randall 18!!!!), but a skeletal handle version would definitely be interesting...

Gaston

 

[Gaston444]

One more photo of the mysterious Hill knives hollow handle, and the better-known Jean Tanazacq Rambo (the Hill Hollow Handle is no longer offered, but their site still offers military knives, very pricey at 475 Euros for a full tang fixed blade in the 7.5" range, but nicely designed):

An amazing feature of the Tanazacq HH, that I heard mentionned for the first time, is that his handle attachment system is quite complex, and geared towards allowing full disassemby! (His folders I know are the same)

The Tanazacq is of course leather wrapped, but I wonder just what is wrapped around the Hill, as is almost looks like leather stacking... Its saw/blade ratio puts my Neeley SA9 to shame!

Gaston

 

[ilten]

That Hill Knife is a great find! I bought a KCT002 directly from Hill around '96 or '97. I got the ATS 34 blade, titanium coated and handle with finger grooves in OD. I did check their site every once in a while, but never saw a hollow handle. Must have missed it : (.
Thanks for finding pictures of it.

 

[TAH]

I still find Martin's hollow handled dagger (the "Deguello") to be one of the more intringuing knives I have ever seen: It is a beautifully restrained, well-proportioned and well executed design, and very unique: The only other hollow handle dagger I can think of is the large factory made Aitor Desert King (clunky plastic sheath and all), a double edged version of the 9" "Jungle King I":

Gaston,

Not my knives, but if you like HH daggers, here are a couple more that are unique and rare.

Randall - more than likely, a one-of-a-kind.

Floyd Bryd

 

[Gaston444]

Wonderful stuff TAH!

I do like better the blade style of this 7 inch model below, one of which, with a commando style handle instead, had a compass embedded outside on the micarta's pommel end! A survival kit in the sheath stone pouch, and we are almost there...

Gaston

 

[TAH]

Steve Peters (SJJP) always has some interesting RMK configurations. That thing looks like it was made for boar hunting. :thumbup:

 

[caine]

my old MCE 2 SURE MISS IT

 

[Gaston444]

Steve Peters (SJJP) always has some interesting RMK configurations. That thing looks like it was made for boar hunting. :thumbup:

I've been looking at it for about 7-8 months (I was surprised it was still around after so long), but I already had a Junglee Waterloo dagger which I absolutely loved (my favourite dagger ever, despite thick edges I re-ground sharper): I don't like redundancies, especially one that would be so expensive... Even for hollow handles I lean towards not more than one of each maker, and not all of them...

I was planning on a Model 12/14 grind of some configuration or other, given the nice thin Randall edges and the lack of blade weight of my Model 14 and 18... That exchange with you made me suddenly realize I really wanted this strange Randall instead, so I scored it... I was a bit worried about Model 12 handles, and 14 style handles I know fit me perfectly... Plus this Clinton Special was a bit cheaper than most of the 12s...

Another factor was that I learned recently that Randall dealers wait four years like everybody else, they just place massive orders every few months, and charge a premium for waiting for you... I realized this dagger in this exact configuration might be a while in showing up again, while Model 12s can always be found...

Can't wait to see it!

Gaston

 

[TAH]

That exchange with you made me suddenly realize I really wanted this strange Randall instead, so I scored it...

Congrats Gaston. I'm glad that I was a bad influence on someone else for a change. It's usually the other way around.

Yep, that's a cool knife. I'll be interested in hearing more about it when you have it in hand. I would think the balance should be pretty good. I do wonder if Steve had boar hunting in mind with this configuration. It even has spear lashing holes in the guard if you want a little more reach. Regardless, I wouldn't want to be on the business end of that knife - human or animal. :thumbup:

 

[Gaston444]

I don't know about tying it to a spear It has a very "trench knife" look to it. Thin Randall edges and a dagger seem like a natural combination to try: It might be as sharp as a very good single edge knife... I also love those Model 14-style finger grooved Randall handles; there is another less prominently grooved style I don't like as much. He actualy has many of those Tom Clinton specials, but not with that handle, and especially not with my preferred thick blocky straight guard...

The one I mentionned with the compass is still available: I thought had seen it as "Ended" on my watch list, but maybe the sale fell through... I heard of the exposed compass breaking rather easily, so I wasn't too keen, but here it is:

Gaston

 

[TAH]

That Clinton Special has nice lines too. The current Randall compass is a pet peeve of mine. I realize it's out of Randall's hands and they're limited to what is available, but that particular compass forms a bubble almost immediately. I hate bubbles. :grumpy:

 

[Gaston444]

Yes I hate bubbles too: I got a set of four 1/2" mini compasses from a maker that claimed them to match some sort of widely recognized compass "standard" [Edit: AA grade], and they did prove good: Only one of the four formed a bubble over six months plus (but a big one), and that doesn't appear to be shaking related at all... Made in Taiwan with only the four Cardinal points on black...

There it is: Grade AA 14mm E&E SERE Micro Button Compass, at 21st century survival: Out of stock but maybe available elsewhere (note the "stormcrow" logo is not there on any of mine):

Here's the blurb:

Grade AA 14mm Button Compass. Liquid- filled with luminous cardinal points . Water resistant to 3 ATM ( 30 meters ) 100ft, with a working temperature range of -29 to 49C (-20 to 120F ).

A nice compact micro compass , with a quick positive action. If you just need to orientate a map to magnetic North or simply follow a rough heading, during daylight in poor visibility, for the size and limitations of a button compass this could easily prove invaluable in any survival or E&E situation.

NOTE : Some websites claim wildly extravagant and inaccurate figures about brightness and luminosity duration , claims of a light duration of around 7 -8 hours are quite simply nonsense, which unfortunately only distract from the fact that this is an otherwise a very good compass.

For nighttime navigation a secondary light source will be required to illuminate compass face .

luminosity period 10-15 minutes.

Dimensions : 14 x 7.1 mm.

My Neeley SA9 came with a similar size compass with a fully white face with many black gradations, and the 21st Century compass pictured above definitely seemed smoother and far faster spinning in function: The Neeley would often hang up if not dead level, and is quite slow when spinning (still works nice, if not 100% in "North" agreement with the other four who all agree 100% among themselves...): The 21st century ones are quick settling and don't hang up, but are about 1 mm thicker: Still, the Neeley got just a tiny microscopic bubble that is not a problem, one of the four has a huge bubble now, the other 3 none, despite some long-term shaking... I find the simple dial face more rational in design in the 21st century ones, also the blurb seems factual.

Not sure how useful they are, but moving around at night they sure beat nothing...

Gaston