THE Hollow Handle Knife Thread

Gaston444 said:
What could be more relevant to a hollow handle knife thread than what you choose to put on or inside the knife? It would be very interesting to hear more about what people put in theirs.
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OK, then:

Firesteel (even though I usually have another on the outside of the sheath)
Jute, part of which is wax impregnated
Sliver of fat wood or flammable fabric
Fish hooks, sinkers and hand line (around here, fish is the easiest source of food)
Needle
Button compass, sometimes

I almost always have cord wrap on the handle, so cordage is there, and occasionally I wrap wire under the cord wrap for binding and snares. Finally, many times I have an Altoids tin on the sheath with the firesteel, full of other stuff.
 
Can anyone tell me if the long (8") Spec Ops Combat Master sheath will fit a Boker Apparo?

Thanks!

AT1984
 
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It does, but for me it took a lot of carefully placed inner filling to prevent movement/rattling: I recommend glueing strips of nylon "rails" just below the secondary grind line, to prevent blade scratching. I never tried moulding the liner to the blade, as this would still promote scratching. On the downside, note that Spec Ops is not too precise about how far from the sheath mouth the snap strap is, so sometimes the strap is very far, and the knife will pull out 1/2" or more...

I cut off some of the liner and glued back the sheath tip so as to not have a wasteful package, which I hate... The snap unbuttons the wrong way too, which I reversed on my Model 14 sheath: Sewing is hard on such thick fabric, and I'll admit I "toughened" my lousy work with superglue...

Spec Ops is a good easy choice given the crappy Boker sheath. Spec Ops is also a great choice for Randall 14s, but not the 18s that have a much, much wider guard (almost Tsuba-like...): That simply doesn't interact properly with the big adjustable snap.

I miss the old Eagle sheaths that had way, way more flair in their inside liners (the Spec Ops insert being very loose and "rattly"), but the outside quality is comparable and may even be better on Spec Ops: The camo ones look even more luxurious than the all black ones: I highly, highly recommend going for camo, as it suits nylon and hides stains, while black only underline the stains... I cannot emphasize enough how much better looking the camo ones are...

Thanks for your item list Guns_and_labs! It seems we agree on fire making at least, if not the means... What is the jute for exactly?

Gaston
 
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Jute makes great tinder, takes a spark and lights easily especially with some wax in it. I keep a fire steel, small fishing kit, small chem lights, titanium razor blade, kevlar line which works well both for fishing or snares. The fire steel I use is partly magnesium and starts a hot fire fast.
 
Thanks for the explanation Dave! Very interesting set up: Particularly the chem lights and the dual-use kevlar line: I haven't heard of this dual use of the kevlar lines before... I guess I'm just going for the easy-to-find items to still stick to a lot of matches...: How long do chem lights small enough for a hollow handle stay illuminated?

Gaston
 
5 or 6 hours bright enough to see at a distance, like on a hammock string so you don't attempt to decapitate yourself going to the restroom, or using as a bobber in low light for fishing, thats what they are actually intended for and have a little rubber adapter to attach to line. The kevlar line has many uses, being stronger than fishing line it works well as snare line, can saw through plastic and just anything you need fairly small line for.
 
5 or 6 hours? I have to get those...

Now I know why Rambo was packing them in the 3rd one...:) I thought they lasted only like an hour...

Thanks!

Gaston
 
You can get large ones that last 12 hours of pretty bright illumination, the ones I keep in my emergency kit are of that type. The little ones in my handle kits, you can find in the fishing lure section of walmart for like 4 bucks a bag with a little adapter, work pretty good too. Fun to play with I wasted the first bag I bought seeing how long they lasted and if they would work fishing.

Oh and if your ever truly bored at a campout, tie a string to the end of a large one, of course break the vial and shake it good so its all lit up, hold it over the campfire until it starts to melt and leak, then spin that sucker at the end of the string like a big yo yo and you will have the messiest predator blood splatter all over the place along with lots of laughs.
 
Its the Martin knives Caiman s35vn steel, 6" blade. Newt makes a terrific knife. I'm going to be ordering one for my daughter as a graduation/commissioning in the Army present.
 
cricketdave said:
Jute makes great tinder, takes a spark and lights easily especially with some wax in it. I keep a fire steel, small fishing kit, small chem lights, titanium razor blade, kevlar line which works well both for fishing or snares. The fire steel I use is partly magnesium and starts a hot fire fast.
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Yes, what he said. Jute makes great tinder. I even use it as a cord wrap on a couple of knives, to use as cordage, but it's not really very high test cordage. I just found 550 with a flammable strand in it, that I may switch to.

The fishing line I use now is the braided type... it would probably work for a snare, too. The small chem lights are a good idea for low light, but up here we usually have plenty of light or lots of darkness.

I haven't seen a titanium razor blade that would fit. Where did you find yours, Dave?
 
It was in a survival escape evade kit from ESEE, along with the first time I had used kevlar cord, an arrow head, rare earth magnets, button compass, cards with helpful tips, plastic handcuff key and I think that was about it. I've parted that out to lots of kits now. Most of the items were meant to be hidden on your person and would work well for that too.

The blue cord is kevlar, and you can see the titanium blade leaning on the small magnesium fire steel.
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Looked at Esee's website and they also have a similar sized razor blade made from ceramic.

One last edit, you could also use the blade from an Exacto knife those are small and you could just wrap some tape on it for a handle.
 
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I really love the way you did the handle wrap on your Surv9...

I now remember the main objection I had to chemical lights: It wasn't total endurance, but the fact there is no "off" switch: If I am not mistaken, once the chemical reaction is started, there is no stopping it until it is exhausted... Kind of like solid rocket fuel vs liquid rocket fuel: Liquids can be stopped and re-started: Solid fuels are much more compact for the same power, but are a one-shot deal... If you compare chemical lights to 30 matches in a knife, the light is very short lived for each match, but you get to have a light 30 separate times over a long time... I would consider a small Mag-Lite in the sheath, but unfortunately the battery drains when in place, so it would have to be stored outside the flashlight... Also, batteries somehow don't seem appropriate to something may sit for years before being relied on in a pinch... I vaguely remember hearing of batteries guaranteed to last a long time in storage, but I'm not sure if I remember this wrong...

Gaston
 
Yeah once activated they are on, of course if you want it dark again just put it in a pocket. I've got a AAA fenix flash light that i keep in small tins with other useful stuff and the batteries usually stay just fine for over a year and still useable.
 

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Here are a few more photos from the trip. Using a ferro rod in the handle, I was able to start my campfires with resinwood found nearby. I removed the cordwrap and found I could make many traps with the 15' of cord wrapping. I also was able to get to the site of the "rambo cliff" and send my friends at Martin Knives a unique photo looking up at the recognizable rock face.

Icing on the cake? One of my editors emailed and asked me to write up an article relating to hollow handle knives while I was at the airport on the way back home.
 
Love the photo of your bird trap, Kevin: Particularly the unwrapped knife... The Rambo cliff shot is great, and the first nice overall shot I have ever seen of it... My first thought is we have to get a bunch of hollow handle nuts together to go to Hope BC!

I just found this interesting site for Timberline knives: http://www.timberlinecollectors.com/

If you look into the catalogue, you will find in it the explanation of how the Timberline/Neeley/Sanders knives are assembled: Apparently a big 3/4" cylinder of solid brass is fitted around the blade's 5/8" broad tang (all the tang's inner and outer "corners", in section and in profile, are fully radiused for strength), the cylinder pressing the guard in place: Beyond that section of tang, and thus the brass cylinder, the tang narrows again to a short 5/16" wide section that is threaded fully round for a big steel nut (visible inside the handle), which nut holds the brass cylinder and the guard tightly against the blade: The outer section of the brass cylinder is fully threaded, and the tough 304 steel handle tube is then screwed into place around it.

The use of the solid brass cylinder is brilliant, because the brass will not transmit the same frequency of vibration, and will dampen shocks, instead of cracking the steel around it... It otherwise shows some similarities to the method used on the Martin knives, although on those the handle tube is screwed directly to the tang.

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Except for the sharpness (very open angle main edge I'm afraid -around 25-30° per side-, but fixable with some effort, as you can see above where it is now well below 15°), this is in my opinion simply the most brilliantly designed, and executed, Hollow Handle Survival Knife of them all (a close contender would the RJ Martin with the reversed Parrish sawteeth that I posted before, with its axe-like chopping false edge, but that one is quite a bit bulkier... I also like the handle of the Hibben Rescue as well): The main reason I say this is that a close examination of the Neeley sawteeths reveals there is no way any other sawback can even come close to the sawing performance of the Timberline style sawback, especially on the full lenght 9.5" version above: 5.17" just for the saw's 16 teeths alone... I looked at close ups of the Liles (including the movie's #5!), and I am sure the Neeley/Timberline saw is superior in function because of some small, hard to photograph, design details: The saw's upper corners are made extra-sharp because the top surface of the Neeley teeths are slightly hollow laterally across the spine: An incredible feat of grinding precision, given that each teeth top is slightly angled, meaning they could not be ground together in one shot...: In addition, all the sawteeth edges, in every direction, are also dead-crisp: No rounding near the corners, of any kind, is even detectable, and the back edge of each teeth is actually viciously sharp as a result (fortunately, the angle is shallow enough to prevent too much aggression on the leather)...

If it wasn't for the low intial main edge sharpness, and especially the thick edge geometry (which is still similar to my hugely sharpened TOPS Hellion at 1.8 mm, despite much thinning), this knife would simply be from another planet entirely: I feel the saw alone is worth the price of admission...

I though the great leather sheath rubbed on the edge, but this turned out to be a false impression: The rubbing is actually on the secondary grind line, way up the blade... I've said it before, but it is worth saying again: This is the only fixed blade knife, with secondary grind lines, I have ever seen to be perfectly straight and symmetrical on its secondary grind lines: When you see how even a Chris Reeves one-piece is ground on the secondaries, this borders on the unreal...

But after the battle of sharpening it, I still might buy another Randall, all medieval-style croockedness and all, because I fear that once my Neeley loses its great sharpness, that great edge would be very hard to restore, just because of the broad bevel it took to get there...

Gaston
 
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Gaston444 said:
I just found this interesting site for Timberline knives: http://www.timberlinecollectors.com/

If you look into the catalogue, you will find in it the explanation of how the Timberline/Neeley/Sanders knives are assembled: Apparently a big 3/4" cylinder of solid brass is fitted around the blade's 5/8" broad tang (all the tang's inner and outer "corners", in section and in profile, are fully radiused for strength), the cylinder pressing the guard in place: Beyond that section of tang, and thus the brass cylinder, the tang narrows again to a short 5/16" wide section that is threaded fully round for a big steel nut (visible inside the handle), which nut holds the brass cylinder and the guard tightly against the blade: The outer section of the brass cylinder is fully threaded, and the tough 304 steel handle tube is then screwed into place around it.

The use of the solid brass cylinder is brilliant, because the brass will not transmit the same frequency of vibration, and will dampen shocks, instead of cracking the steel around it... It otherwise shows some similarities to the method used on the Martin knives, although on those the handle tube is screwed directly to the tang.
Click to expand...

I think it is also important to note that they annealed the tang for resilience. I'm told not many knife makers do that, though it makes a lot of sense. Wilson does this.
 
Thanks for that detail, Guns_and_Labs, as I did not know tang annealing was rare among custom makers.

It makes great sense as a practice, as was quite a shock for me to read a thread of a Cold Steel Recon Scout snapping off at the base of the tang while batonning: It is shocking to me, as I know the stick tang on that knife is quite broad, and at least its inner corners are slightly radiused, plus this knife is actually thicker than 1/4" right where it broke: 5/16" if I am not mistaken... In addition, the broken knife was Carbon, so theoretically less brittle than stainless...

It could have been a one-off, but it kind of made me aware the practice of batonning (which I recently concluded made a lot of sense to preserve the hard to sharpen forward part of the edge, and the edge generally) is not something to be taken lightly...: The Cold Steel RS broke at something like -15 or -20°C, so that was definitely a contributing factor, but given how strongly it is made, it is definitely a sobering failure nonetheless... I came up with the theory that a long full-handle tang (like the RS) may make things worse for vibration, as the longer tang could create a greater vibration amplitude at its end... Maybe also the guard was on too tight, creating a weak "stiff" point, since the Kraton handle did nothing to dampen the vibrations...

An interesting thing to note on the Neeley hollow handle is the mention that the fit of the blade to the guard is so tight there is no need for silver soldering: It does appear to be true on mine...

Gaston
 
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