The hyping of Chris Reeve Knifes

[Ankerson]

Im sorry if I am upsetting CRK owners. That was not my intention. I know he makes a quality, very attractive knife,no doubt. I am just questioning why very few folks never discuss blade performance and are
solely focused on aesthetics, thats all.

Haven't tried their S35VN personally.

There older S30V was on the soft side so edge holding wasn't all that great compared to others S30V, but it was easy to sharpen.

I do have two later ZAANS in S30V that is 59.5 HRC and it's great.

 

[dflores]

Seriously... I use my sebenza every single day and it stays sharp long enough for normal use. To be honest i was a little steel snobbish when i first started collecting but s35 and s30 are extremely good steels for an edc if you know how to keep your knives sharp which i learned how to do and why i can care less about. And before you go off on an awesome knife maybe you should buy one and use it and then you'll see how easy it can take down normal tasks. Different knife grinds make different tasks easier, maybe you should search through these forums and read that. And so what if people like to collect them and not use them, what difference does it make to you that they dont carry it?

 

[snowreaper1]

Im sorry if I am upsetting CRK owners. That was not my intention. I know he makes a quality, very attractive knife,no doubt. I am just questioning why very few folks never discuss blade performance and are
solely focused on aesthetics, thats all.

I don't think thats the case at all. The Sebenza has probably been the most discussed knife on forums. Pretty much everything about it has been critiqued and discussed to exhaustion including its cutting performance.

 

[tacdriver22mk2]

Hi,

The overwhelming general consensus on ALL the forums is that Chris Reeve Knifes make the best production/semi-custom knives available today. I have spent many days perusing all the
forums reading all the CRK fan boy comments...."best knife on earth", "it just feels right", etc. Ok, well thats all fine, BUT the mast majority of these folks NEVER mention the blade performance
or talk about the blade's cutting ability or the blade's edge retention or how long it holds a razor sharp edge. It ALL about fit, feel and finish and NOT the important part of how the blade cuts
and performs....I dont get it.

A very popular You Tube channel member put the large Sebenza 21 to a cutting test, and it failed miserably! Than tester got nasty,immature comments from the all CRK fanboys. It certainly
appears to me that his blades are mediocore at the very best, and very hit and miss with quality control. To me , that is unacceptable for a $425.00 knife.

So, do most of the CRK Sebenza owners buy these knives simply to play with and constantly and mindlessly flick it open and closed while sitting on the couch watching TV, or, they they acutally
use them daily and if so, what are you results with the blade performance?

Please understand this is just my opinion from all the reading I have done and the videos I have watched.

iv got a classic small micarta sebbie and i have to say i agree on all of this except who says that its a comfortable knife well im gonna just say it does not feel good what feels good you may ask the para 2 does although i would like the g10 to be more rounded and less boxy another one is the manix 2 again slightly more rounded but its better than the para

the sebbie especially with a pocket clip not only that but its very possible to slice one of your smaller fingers when the knife is closed and you run your finger down the back of the handle

dont get me wrong its amazingly good looking but god i hate a lot of the "features" of a sebbie

with a knife that is all about the little things like fit and rounded spine then all the "small" problems that i find discount all the "small" advantages over other knives

and my para 2 is smoother than my sebbie mind you if i push the locking bar out of the way of the blade the blade will swing freely purely under the power of gravity and that's not saying that my para 2 is amazingly smooth (although it is) its saying that the sebbie is not

 

[Ankerson]

Here are my ZAAN reviews, it's S30V.

[youtube]DJ6IiVGGNmg[/youtube]


http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ope-and-cardboard-testing?highlight=Umnumzaan

 

[Bowman1911]

Don't ever buy a Sebenza. Crow taste's like $%&*.

 

[marthinus]

[video=youtube;aUfVf6pOXlg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUfVf6pOXlg[/video]

[video=youtube;2uvb4RYpnb4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2uvb4RYpnb4[/video]

[video=youtube;lZbArMum5Fg]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZbArMum5Fg[/video]

 

[unit]

I am not a friend or foe...just a guy that has been there, and gave the knife away to a great friend.

I never really discussed performance because it is pretty difficult to normalize out the variables (mainly geometry/blade shape, but secondarily is the variability in the substrate being cut, and the numerous variables in the human element behind the handle). That said, most people are pretty familiar with the performance of these things. It is quite good....but perhaps not substantially better than blades of similar steel that cost a fair piece less. So why do they cost more? it is largely due to fit and finish being very consistent and very good....thus people often discuss these aspects.

Your OP will upset a lot of people not just CRK fans. It is comes off as brash and disrespectful to a respected maker. If you had posted the same thing about a company like Cold Steel, Spyderco, Benchmade, Kershaw, or Buck, you would likely get the same type of responses...and that does not make the responders fan boys. It just shows that many people here respect makers that have offered fantastic products and advanced the industry.

CRK (and other makers) have demonstrated a lot to forum users...what have you demonstrated?

 

[marthinus]

[video=youtube;eIbsQvFEbWE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eIbsQvFEbWE[/video]

Well, here is some food for thought, or just some good reading material regarding tight tolerances, that CRK is renowned for, locks and high dollar knives that Sal Glesser, owner of Spyderco has mentioned through the years on the forums (ps, search is your friend).

Another thing to remember is that the Manufacturing Quality award that CRK has won so many times are not chosen by a panel, it is voted for by fellow knife makers. Even Bob Dozier, a very established maker in his own right has CRK pocket knives and I love his motto of : if it feels like climbing through a barbed wire fence, there is something wrong. Slim, sleek and simple knives.

[youtube]nI_73zvGx5Y[/youtube]

A few weeks back, in this thread, someone asked if there was a Spyderco which could compete with the Sebenza. Sal eventually chimed in. His post was primarily a response to someone's skepticism regarding the origins of the framelock. He noted that he had, in his personal collection, a Chris Reeve knife with an earlier lock of Chris' called the "Lock 45". He further noted that it dated back to the 1970's and was the predecessor of the Reeve Integral Lock. That lead to someone asking what it looked like, at which point he suggested sending it to me to be photographed. He also noted in a later post that it was a small knife. It arrived a couple days ago and he wasn't kidding about its size. For the benefit of those who like "dimensional data" it weighs 1.375 ounces (40 grams) has a closed length of 2 13/16" (71 mm), a blade length of 2 7/32" (57mm) with a 2 1/16" (52mm) cutting edge, and is 5/16" (8mm) thick. For those who find photographic comparisons easier to visualize, the first photo below shows it with a Kiwi and my LH Mnandi.

Beyond that, it's an intriguing design. The action is glassy smooth and the lock up is rock solid despite the fact that the blade is only supported from one side. The small thumb stud and smooth handle, thin on the off side, make it difficult to open, but might be less of a problem for someone right handed and with better motor skills. No clip, that was probably not even a gleam in Sal's eye yet. I'm assuming the handle is titanium anodized to a bronze hue but that, and any other questions regarding it would best be answered by Sal, or someone intimately familiar with Chris Reeve's early knives.

Closed, lock side:

close up, to show one of the two ball bearings:

The balls do not serve as detents, just to smooth the action. Only friction holds the blade closed.

Another close up, note the angled locking surfaces on the blade...

Lock side view, half open. You can almost see the lower ball bearing:

Top view, almost fully open:

Fully open, lock side:

Finally, the design does have one peculiarity, you can fold the blade in the wrong direction, at least until the thumb stud makes contact with the frame...

Paul

My Personal Website - - - - - - A Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting - - - - - - Kiwimania
Dead horses beaten, sacred cows tipped, chimeras hunted when time permits.
Spyderco Collector # 043 - - WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!
It's easy to grin when your ship comes in and good fortune and fame are your lot, but the man worthwhile is the man who can smile with his shorts twsited up in a knot. - Morey Amsterdam

Well, I cannot speak for Chris Reeve Knives, but I will offer an opinion.

I've known Chris and Ann for many years. We worked together when Chris was in South Africa.

A CRK knife is not a custom knife, nor is it a production knife. They are in a class by themselves. They've taken many years to develop their reputation.

Each piece is custom made by skilled custom makers. CRK tolerances and standards are the highest I've seen in processes like surface grinding and heat treat. There is a limit to their production capacity.

Chris is pretty anal on quality. "Quality is time. = Time is money". He pays his craftsmen a fair wage, and he charges a fair margin, he gives the world a product like no other. Chris and Ann work hard and they make a good living. "Enormous profits" is an inside joke that Chris and I laugh about. Frankly, I think they'd feel guilty if they made too much money.

The "Market" will determine if his business strategies work, regardless of what they are. If they don't work, adjustments are made....that's how businesses survive.

BTW, the flip side of a "bargain driven" market is manufacturers are forced to import product (export jobs) from China to compete in the need for the "lower price". More complications.

sal

Hi Dulleddown,

More profit is usually associated with higher price. That's normal. Profit is usually a percentage of sales price. To think that a high priced auto should garner the same proft as a low priced auto is not in accord with business. It might be the same percentage, but being more expensive, it will be more profit.

Unless you are a manufacturer, familiar with close tolerance manufacturing of heat treated steel & Titanium parts, you are not likely to be able to see all of the differences between one of Chris' knives and others. For example; CRK keeps 0.0005 tolerance on surface grinding. That's one sixth the thickness of a hair. Do you have the knowledsge and equipment to discover that tolerance?

In the end, it's all about trust. CRK took many years to build and maintain their repuation. Built with consistent focus. Even those trying to make a "cheaper" version must "leave out processes" or "soften their tolerance", or they will cost as much.

Rarely do you pay for the "name". That's a bullshit sales pitch made up by the ignorant claiming to offer the same for less. Money valuation between countries might offer a "deal" for a while until the money value balances, but all in all, you will get what you pay for.

sal

-----------------------------------------------------

Just because you can't see the difference doesn't mean it isn't there, it just means you can't see it.

Hi GWLee,

The benefit of tight tolerances is usually for long term durability as well as smooth function. Long term durability is difficult to determine in a short term decision. That's why reputation is important.

sal

Nice video.

High dollar knives are high dollar because they cost more to make. It might be materials (Titanium, unubtanium, etc.), it might be tolerances (Chris' has lotsa zeros after the decimal before hitting numbers), it might be labor (carving, engraving, etc.).

Sometmes those differences are difficult if not impossible for even the trained eye to detenct, generally impossible for a new student.

Just because you can't see the difference, doesn't mean it isn't there, sometimes it just means you can't see it.

sal

At the same time there are many people that feel the knife is not worth it, I did until I read Sal Glesser's comments and bought one myself after 3 years of saving (the knife was later taken in a mugging) and I was UTTERLY UNDERWHELMED when I bought it, even though I handled it before hand I just felt like owning something of true quality for the first time in my life (like a good quality car/suite/watch/camera). Until I used it non stop, on the farm etc and everything just started "flowing" and making sence. I replaced the stolen knife with an Insingo. I will always have a CRK and they retail for around $625 here. They are, for me at least, worth it and my personal connection, what the Sebenza has meant in my life, makes it special for me.

I have rambled a bit, but I hope some of what I have said has helped you to form your own opinion on the matter.

 

[Cynic2701]

As a lefty I'm very pleased that they are among the few companies that produce left handed knives:

I carry a Sebenza or an Umnumzaan quite a lot. I don't really agree that they are so expensive that people don't use them. I carry and use mine all the time. They have opened cans, been (accidentally) dropped off a roof, and (accidentally) run over by a car. They aren't all safe queens like some people seem to think--as a working knife it's fantastic for a variety of reasons. It seems like a lot of people buy one, never use it, and then end up being dissatisfied with them. You really do need to use them to "get" why they are great knives.

In my experience they hold an edge better than my S30V Spyderco's. They probably would lose out to my CTS-XHP and M390 Spyderco's, but I don't cut enough on a daily basis to really note the difference between S30V and the current "super" steels.

 

[Piper Maru]

I had to make a report 5 factors that make of good art (I had to get it approved in front of a board of judges, which then had to get get approved in front of another board) one of the factors I came up with is, making something new and original but still pay homage to what came before you. Well CRK and particularly the sebenza does a great job on that front. I dont own a sebenza by a friend of mine has a few, and they are great knives, I dont really care to own one, but they are for sure worth buying.

 

[tacdriver22mk2]

How can you form such a strong opinion from reading and you tube video's? I don't have an opinion as I have not purchased one of CRK's knives. However I have noticed that he wins a lot of awards....
1987 Knifemaker’s Guild of Southern Africa "Best Folding Knife" (Sebenza predecessor)
2000 ",[16] 2001,[17] 2003",[18] 2004, 2005, 2006",[19] 2007,[6] 2008,[14] 2009, 2010 [15] "Manufacturing Quality Award"
2003 "Collaboration Knife of the Year" [18] ("The Green Beret Knife", a collaboration between CRK and William Harsey, Jr.)
2005 "Collector Knife of the Year" ("21st Anniversary Sebenza")
2006 Grays Sporting Journal “Gray's Best” Award
2007 "American Made Knife of the Year"[6] ("The Pacific Knife", a collaboration between CRK and William Harsey Jr.)
2008 "Overall Knife of the Year"[14] ("Umnumzaan")
2008 Field and Stream "Best of the Best""[20] ("The Pacific Knife")
2010 "Overall Knife of the Year" [15] ("Ti-Lock", a collaboration between CRK and Grant & Gavin Hawk)

He uses good steels A2, ATS-34, BG-42, CPM-S30V, CPM-S35V. I suspect he nails heat treat on these steels as Reeve collaborated with Dick Barber of Crucible Materials Corporation to develop CPM S30V steel as a knifemaking steel in 2003. Generally if you are heavilly involved in developing a steel you might be able to figure out how to heat treat it.

You sir have thrown down some real fighting words about a pretty highly regarded knife maker. Now if you got one of his knives and were disappointed that's a different thing. But you're just ranting about a couple of things you read on the net that contradict the overwhelming general consensus (your own words) that this is a great line of knives.

totally disagree his HT is soft that's why the regular sebenzas are more sought after because his bg 42 was HT to 60-61 i believe vs his s30v is HT to 58 drastically reducing performance same with his s35vn with major failures in cutting 5/8 rope

its very well known that crk runs his HT soft and IMO too soft

its i prefer a spydie with 8cr because the razor edge lasts more than 2 cuts and i have found that bm d2 is very much superior to crk s30v

 

[Sufler]

waterford,

Can you give us an idea of your knife history? What's your favorite EDC folding knife? Ones you actually own and use on a daily.

Thanks!

 

[waterford]

Sufler,
I currently have a Spyderco Native 5 on order. I have a Buck 112 and Schrade lockback.

 

[Padad24al]

If you don't want one, that is fine. It leaves more for me. I love 'em!!!!

 

[Sufler]

waterford,

In the beginning of all "this" (meaning my entrance into the knife world) - I didn't understand a lot of what seemed to me like overpriced knives. I see that you yourself have taken the initiative to progress to "better" knives - after all... the retail price of a Native 5 is half of that of the large basic Sebenza. Eventually (if not already), you will find yourself obsessing over steel performances, ergonomics, aesthetics, etc. In all likelihood, the Sebenza (as will many other knives) will cross your path as you venture deeper into knife using/collecting. The only thing I can say is keep an open mind and don't be quick to judge something you haven't personally owned/used/experienced.

Best.

 

[RevDevil]

I own an Umnumzaan and 2 Lg Sebenzas, had a 3rd but it was exchanged for another. Anyhoo, I use them and think they are fine for what they are. I cannot complain, the examples I have perform as expected. The manufacturing tolerances are impressive, fit and finish is high quality. The steel is run at a softer state because so many people just refuse to learn how to sharpen and probably prefer to complain rather than learn that necessary skill.

Some people get a little obsessive, not sure why. Freaky videos where people are drolling and moaning don't make me want to buy a knife personally. Then again, some folks have a very dainy and lowly existence.

 

[Ankerson]

Some people get a little obsessive, not sure why. Freaky videos where people are drolling and moaning don't make me want to buy a knife personally. Then again, some folks have a very dainy and lowly existence.

Funny.

 

[knarfeng]

The arrogance of people who can dis a knifemaker and his products without having owned one is something which never ceases to amaze me.

marthinus, that is an excellent response. It is better than the question deserved.

I don't own a CRK. Likely never will. I just have other needs than the ones which CRK so completely fulfills.

 

[Ankerson]

The arrogance of people who can dis a knifemaker and his products without having owned one is something which never ceases to amaze me.

That's just the nature of the internet in the end.