The knife market bubble needs to happen

[Kels73]

Knife companies that are able to read the market and adjust accordingly will survive and thrive. Knife companies that fail to do so will fade away.

I get the impression that the knife market is relatively stable, making it easier for company leaders to read. It doesn't seem to experience the highs and lows of the modern gun market, which is heavily impacted by current events and the winds of political change.

Radical legislation like that seen in the UK would definitely hurt the US knife market, but I don't see that happening here anytime soon. If anything, it seems like more and more states are relaxing their knife legislation.

 

[marchone]

Radical legislation like that seen in the UK would definitely hurt the US knife market, but I don't see that happening here anytime soon. If anything, it seems like more and more states are relaxing their knife legislation.

NYC's gravity knife laws are already draconian.

 

[BladeScout]

Dont envision a knife market bubble in the foreseeable future.

Should big companies topple, we will still have small Spyderco

Real, handmade, bespoke 8cr13mov. The grilon handles were milled out by our master craftsman, who is a fourth generation grilon-smith. The back lock is endorsed by Dwayne Johnson, precision engineered to rock exactly two thirds of a millimeter when locked. We call it our “Rock Lock Rock”™.

You forgot about the high security knife R&D lab in the US with thermal cams and retina scanners

I almost never run into people who actually sharpen their knives

You are into knives and a member of the largest knife forum around but you dont run into people who actually sharpen their knives ... ?

I can only speak for myself but as a knife afi, I often talk knives with my buddies. Buddies of whom quite a few are into knives and who of course sharpen their own knives.
Goes without saying, that a bunch of folks here on BF sharpen their own knives.

 

[pinnah]

There's lots of reasons for price increases. It's usually of competitive advantage to keep prices as low as is feasible, so greed is among the least likely reasons for it.

For many consumer items, pricing strategy is negligibly related to production costs, particularly when companies pursue well executed branding strategies.

You can see this most clearly in the car industry, particularly in the old GM model that provided different "brands" at different price points. When companies maintain price discipline with their distributors and retailers, they can create the image of a premium brand that demands a premium price. For many buyers, price is a feature.

I think some knives, like some cars, some watches and many others things, are clearly playing to the luxury market.

 

[Eli Chaps]

You are into knives and a member of the largest knife forum around but you dont run into people who actually sharpen their knives ... ?

I can only speak for myself but as a knife afi, I often talk knives with my buddies. Buddies of whom quite a few are into knives and who of course sharpen their own knives.
Goes without saying, that a bunch of folks here on BF sharpen their own knives.

Obviously the context of my post's entirety was referring to the general public. Of course here on BF that pool is a lot deeper. That said, I still bet there are far more knife owners on this site than there are knife sharpeners.

 

[Kels73]

NYC's gravity knife laws are already draconian.

Agreed. There are definitely jurisdictions in the US that have strict knife laws, but I don't see the whole nation going the way of the UK anytime soon. I'm actually encouraged by states that have relaxed their knife laws and now allow the carry of knives that were once illegal, such as automatics.

 

[jdm61]

What bubble? Around 1991-92 when the Guild Show was in the big Marriott in Orlando for the first time and had like 400 tables, I bought a 7 inch forged fighter in 1084 with a hund rubbed finish a nice maple burl and ebony handle and 416 fittings with a basic Kenny Rowe sheath. It was made by a guy who had just passed his ABS MS test, but it had no mark other than his name. IIRC, it was one of his JS test knives that he had kept for two years. I paid $375 for it because the 8 inch version with the JS stamp and slightly nicer wood and sheath was $450 and I didn't have that much. So what would a similar knife made by an "advanced" ABS Apprentice Smith sell for today? About $375 if he was lucky? PLEASE tell me where I can find this bubble you speak of.

 

[gadgetgeek]

For many consumer items, pricing strategy is negligibly related to production costs, particularly when companies pursue well executed branding strategies.

You can see this most clearly in the car industry, particularly in the old GM model that provided different "brands" at different price points. When companies maintain price discipline with their distributors and retailers, they can create the image of a premium brand that demands a premium price. For many buyers, price is a feature.

I think some knives, like some cars, some watches and many others things, are clearly playing to the luxury market.

I don't think that cars is a good comparison. Yes there are premium brands, but in comparison there were different finish levels, or they were marketed for different countries. I knew a guy with a "half-badge" M-100/F-100 It was an end of year production truck that had some parts changed for sale in Canada probably due to overstock in the US.
Brands like Saturn were fully experimental, so it made sense to keep them under a different brand, as many could only be leased with no buy-out clause.
So yes there is some brand prestige, No one likes it if you point out their Jag has an F-150 power train, or that their Cadillac escalade is a chevy suburban with leather seats. But those are the risks that brands take, some work, some do not. When makers ride on the brand, it very quickly costs them.

Take for example that there was a time where the Chrysler marquee was the premium brand in Canada, while being the budget marquee in the US, (very interesting to see a Chrysler Neon) Where as previously it had been reversed, and Plymouth zigg-zagged through there as well.
The thing is, the prices did reflect what came with those cars, maybe a luxury trim package was only available from the upper tier marquee, but leather electric seats aren't cheap. And as brand perception changed, the so did the "luxury" parts of the vehicles. (Lexus vs. Toyota, Infitiy Vs Nissan etc)

That churn keeps customers in the same brand family (even if some people didn't think they were related, got a lot of really angry customers that insisted GMC sucked while Chevrolet was the bees knees)
Does my wife's honda jazz count as a luxury car because it has more features than a Bentley from twenty years ago? Not at all, because brand identity is a constantly shifting target. There has to be some level of product there to justify the price.
Watches it may be the case, but watches are also really simple to compare, how long does it last, how accurate is it. Done. Cars have much more social cache.

Unless you can think of a premium car brand that is doing well, and is just floating on its "brand" I can't.

 

[Dangerously]

PLEASE tell me where I can find this bubble you speak of.

Go on Instagram! You can buy a round titanium turd from a knife maker for 250 bucks.

 

[sgt1372]

I haven't been collecting knives,for very long but, when I 1st started driving in the 60's, an entry level car cost $2-3k and you could get a beater that would still run for just $100. Now those kind of cars cost about $30k and $1k, respectively.

Same thing applies to guns. The 1st handguns I bought only cost about $100-200 and I talking about a Colt Python or 1911 and a Browning HP. Now the cheapest handguns cost about $300-500 and pemium guns, like the ones I mentioned can cost thousands, if you can find them.

It's called inflation and, unless there is a sustained depression, which could happen as a result of the fiscal and trade policies of the current administration, costs and prices ususlly go up, not down.

However, that doesn't mean if you bought a car in 1960 for $3k and sold now for $30k that you're actually making $ on it, because on an inflation adjusted basis, you're probably just breaking even and may even losing $ when you take into account the cost of maintenance, repair, insurance and/or storage over those 50-60 yrs.

 

[gadgetgeek]

I haven't been collecting knives,for very long but, when I 1st started driving in the 60's, an entry level car cost $2-3k and you could get a beater that would still run for just $100. Now those kind of cars cost about $30k and $1k, respectively.

Same thing applies to guns. The 1st handguns I bought only cost about $100-200 and I talking about a Colt Python or 1911 and a Browning HP. Now the cheapest handguns cost about $300-500 and pemium guns, like the ones I mentioned can cost thousands, if you can find them.

It's called inflation and, unless there is a sustained depression, which could happen as a result of the fiscal and trade policies of the current administration, costs and prices ususlly go up, not down.

However, that doesn't mean if you bought a car in 1960 for $3k and sold now for $30k that you're actually making $ on it, because on an inflation adjusted basis, you're probably just breaking even.

Its also not an entirely direct comparison, because the tech and features that are now in that base model car put it at the level of a high end car or in cases even beyond what was possible 30-40 years ago. You look at what is being produced for sale in places like India, and that is a lot closer 1-1, and the costs reflect that. Guns are similar, surplus guns artificially drive down the market, doesn't happen in other industries.

Go on Instagram! You can buy a round titanium turd from a knife maker for 250 bucks.

You can, but will that guy be running that same game in 10 years, maybe, but its unlikely. There is a lot of art sold as knives, always has been, always will be, but that doesn't effect the big players in any real way.

 

[FortyTwoBlades]

For many consumer items, pricing strategy is negligibly related to production costs, particularly when companies pursue well executed branding strategies.

You can see this most clearly in the car industry, particularly in the old GM model that provided different "brands" at different price points. When companies maintain price discipline with their distributors and retailers, they can create the image of a premium brand that demands a premium price. For many buyers, price is a feature.

I think some knives, like some cars, some watches and many others things, are clearly playing to the luxury market.

Ah, but with these things, they release them at a given price and margin. They don't release specific models cheap and then jack up their prices across the board the next year when they release the next year's model. How much sense would that make? And the pricing is kept competitive with other models by other manufacturers with similar build quality and features. Compared to potential substitutes, they still need to remain competitive or else everyone will flock away from the brand.

Also, there are a lot of differences between cars and knives when it comes to pricing structure considerations, marketing, and so on.

 

[jdm61]

And $5000 a year was a pretty good salary for a young professional out of college back in the early 60's when cars cost that much. My parents bought a 2 story house in a town outside of Hartford, Connecticut in 1974 for like $35K.

I haven't been collecting knives,for very long but, when I 1st started driving in the 60's, an entry level car cost $2-3k and you could get a beater that would still run for just $100. Now those kind of cars cost about $30k and $1k, respectively.

Same thing applies to guns. The 1st handguns I bought only cost about $100-200 and I talking about a Colt Python or 1911 and a Browning HP. Now the cheapest handguns cost about $300-500 and pemium guns, like the ones I mentioned can cost thousands, if you can find them.

It's called inflation and, unless there is a sustained depression, which could happen as a result of the fiscal and trade policies of the current administration, costs and prices ususlly go up, not down.

However, that doesn't mean if you bought a car in 1960 for $3k and sold now for $30k that you're actually making $ on it, because on an inflation adjusted basis, you're probably just breaking even and may even losing $ when you take into account the cost of maintenance, repair, insurance and/or storage over those 50-60 yrs.

 

[Blacplastik]

You can get a Spyderco in any size you want for $15-25 but it will say "Byrd"on it. If you desire the Spyderco brand emblazoned on the blade, or exotic handle materials, or M4 steel, well those are luxury items and you should expect to pay luxury prices.

And if you think prices for cutting-edge luxury knives are high, just be glad you're not into luxury watches!

Exotic like G10 you pay $50more for VS the hard plastic crap of a handle. Lol what a joke that is.
That’s one thing I detest about Spyderco and Benchmade knifes.

 

[jdm61]

And as you know, there are also differences between pricing knives and pricing knives. If you decided to sell custom knives for folks, you would agree on a cut, say from 20-30% of the sale price depending on how much it goes for, etc. However, if that custom maker tried to get in with a big retailer like maybe selling kitchen knives through Williams Sonoma, they might be told by W-S would they they would give him 55-60% of sticker price. BUT that means MSRP, which they will "discount" 20% or maybe even 25%. So really, we SHOULD be back to that 20-30% number, but because custom makers do not have MSRP, it can be confusing. We have THE price, and not "the sticker price, but WAIT, act now and you can get it now for........price" that is actually their everyday selling price. Not quite as scammy as the jewelry biz, but there it is and everybody has to play that game unless you have crazy high rents like those boys in Pier 39 in San Francisco.

Ah, but with these things, they release them at a given price and margin. They don't release specific models cheap and then jack up their prices across the board the next year when they release the next year's model. How much sense would that make? And the pricing is kept competitive with other models by other manufacturers with similar build quality and features. Compared to potential substitutes, they still need to remain competitive or else everyone will flock away from the brand.

Also, there are a lot of differences between cars and knives when it comes to pricing structure considerations, marketing, and so on.

.

 

[gadgetgeek]

Exotic like G10 you pay $50more for VS the hard plastic crap of a handle. Lol what a joke that is.
That’s one thing I detest about Spyderco and Benchmade knifes.

So, substrate and resin that has to be cut, ground and finished, little economy of scale, or an injection molded, engineered material with massive economy of scale but with a greater upfront cost. What exactly is your point? If you don't like it, don't buy it.

 

[poking_stick]

Exotic like G10 you pay $50more for VS the hard plastic crap of a handle. Lol what a joke that is.
That’s one thing I detest about Spyderco and Benchmade knifes.

You are misrepresenting Spyderco/Byrd.

Right now on Amazon.com the Spyderco Byrd Meadowlark 2 is listed for:
$20.67 with FRN scales
$23.37 with Stainless Steel scales
$30.57 with G-10 scales

That's a $2.70 premium to get stainless steel scales, or a $9.90 premium to for G-10. Far from the $50 premium you incorrectly say they charge for G-10 handles.

 

[91bravo]

Exotic like G10 you pay $50more for VS the hard plastic crap of a handle. Lol what a joke that is.
That’s one thing I detest about Spyderco and Benchmade knifes.

Kinda funny if you look at your screen name...

 

[Blade_Runner85]

IDK, economics, inflation, increasing manufacturing prices, wages ect...I still think its pretty lame, and BM and Spyderco always seem to be the two biggest culprits and other companies jump on. I agree, there will always be people who pay without hesitation but seriously paying over 80 bucks for somethings like a Delica 4 with plastic handles, foreign made and VG-10, is beginning to get a little ridiculous IMO. I guess for me it will depend on how high of a price increase we are looking at. Anything over 20 bucks and I am probably out, ill just look at cheaper options or look to these Chinese companies who are providing great steels and construction at considerably lower prices. Needless to say it looks like ill be buying less knives this year and ill probably look to other companies that dont have a spider or butterfly printed on the blade....

 

[Makael]

IDK, economics, inflation, increasing manufacturing prices, wages ect...I still think its pretty lame, and BM and Spyderco always seem to be the two biggest culprits and other companies jump on. I agree, there will always be people who pay without hesitation but seriously paying over 80 bucks for somethings like a Delica 4 with plastic handles, foreign made and VG-10, is beginning to get a little ridiculous IMO. I guess for me it will depend on how high of a price increase we are looking at. Anything over 20 bucks and I am probably out, ill just look at cheaper options or look to these Chinese companies who are providing great steels and construction at considerably lower prices. Needless to say it looks like ill be buying less knives this year and ill probably look to other companies that dont have a spider or butterfly printed on the blade....

What's your original screen name?