the lock fetish

[pinnah]

The technology failed in the face of stupid behavior.

This is a general principle that is often discussed among people who deal with managing risk professionally. It is often referred to as "risk compensation". The primary thrust is that people seem to be hard wired to accept a fixed amount of perceived risk (very different real risk) so when a risk mitigation technology is deployed, the common response is riskier behavior. One of the more commonly discussed examples is a study from Europe that studied the effects of adding anti-lock brakes to taxis. Cabbies drove faster and braked harder in corners. If anybody watch Baltimore put a beating on New England last Sunday, you can compare the number of head-leading hits to those in the Rugby 7s tournaments. Helmets lead to riskier hits.

Locking folders may have the same exact problem. Given the lock, people may fall into the trap of using them in ways that are riskier than how they would use a slip joint.

This said, I do think locking folders are a place where conscious, deliberate care can lead to safe usage - safer even than a comparable slip joint. IMO, there are two ways to get a folder to fail. Plenty of discussion so far on the dangers of pressing too hard on a locking folder. Fair enough. But on the other hand, I've been in situations where I was working fast and using a slip joint and had the slip joint buckle when I've knocked the blade on something. Yes, I should move more slowly but its the nature of working sometimes. Think clearing out old plants from a garden.... In these situations, the blade isn't getting a lot of pressure, but the lock definitely makes the knife safer than a slip joint.

IMO, slip joints (and friction folders) shine when you want to open and close a knife quickly repeatedly.

I more or less think of locking folders and fixed blades are near peers. The difference is that carrying a fixed blade is socially forbidden in nearly all situations. But... you have to choose to not be stupid. There's just no cure for stupid.

 

[zippofan]

The funny thing about the parents I mentioned is that they don't care to see sheath knives in Scouts either. There is no national BSA prohibition, it is up to the individual Troops to allow sheath knives within reason, which we do. Only one Scout has ever taken a sheath knife camping with the Troop, and it was a fishing knife.

I've started a small collection of European Scouting knives, mostly from Scandinavia, and they are all sheath knives. I occasionally wear one on my belt, primarily for camping outside of Council camps (that don't allow them) and as a 'dress' knife with full uniform for our monthly Court of Honor. The same parent who took me to task about slipjoints told me that Scouts should not be allowed to have a sheath knife. When I reminded them that it cannot fold accidentally and therefore must be safer than a SAK, they weren't amused. One of these days I'm going to find an old official BSA sheath knife in decent shape that I can afford. I'll be curious to hear their comment after showing the "Official BSA Scout Knife" on the blade.

 

[jackknife]

The funny thing about the parents I mentioned is that they don't care to see sheath knives in Scouts either. There is no national BSA prohibition, it is up to the individual Troops to allow sheath knives within reason, which we do. Only one Scout has ever taken a sheath knife camping with the Troop, and it was a fishing knife.

I've started a small collection of European Scouting knives, mostly from Scandinavia, and they are all sheath knives. I occasionally wear one on my belt, primarily for camping outside of Council camps (that don't allow them) and as a 'dress' knife with full uniform for our monthly Court of Honor. The same parent who took me to task about slipjoints told me that Scouts should not be allowed to have a sheath knife. When I reminded them that it cannot fold accidentally and therefore must be safer than a SAK, they weren't amused. One of these days I'm going to find an old official BSA sheath knife in decent shape that I can afford. I'll be curious to hear their comment after showing the "Official BSA Scout Knife" on the blade.

This attitude from the scouts and the parents are incomprehensible to me. Why would you not, as a parent, want your kid to be using the best tool for the job? The "Official" scout knife hanging from your belt init's sheath used to be a badge of pride for the scout. We took great pride in waxing and polishing the stacked leather handles and sheath.

As to the Scandinavians, I've long felt that our Nordic cousins are more socially advanced than us, as well as more practical as a sheathed puuko hanging from a belt is not a thing of panic. If this country was anything like theirs, I'd be carrying a small pocket sheath knife instead of any folding type of pocket knife at all. I'd even forsake my peanut for a small fixed blade, and all the built in convenience and safety that it has by nature of the beast. But I live in the People's Republik Of Marylandistan, so it's not in the cards. I'd be very curious as why the parent that does not want their child to handle 'dangerous' slip joints, should nothave a knife that will absolutely not fold?

Carl.

 

[Jack Black]

As to the Scandinavians, I've long felt that our Nordic cousins are more socially advanced than us, as well as more practical as a sheathed puuko hanging from a belt is not a thing of panic.

An old friend of mine, who lived just inside the Arctic Circle, once pointed out to me that it's kind of hard to open a small SAK at -20!

Jack

 

[Planterz]

Like Carl mentioned here's the can opener on my CASE #6445R scout pattern knife

Paul

Completely off-topic, but that is some seriously gorgeous red bone on those knives. How I wish Case still made them this way.

 

[DerekH]

I always had a knife growing up, starting with an Old Timer (I don't remember which model) but then as I grew older you began to see less and less of the traditional knife around and instead I began to see more "tacti-cool" folders, all of which had locks. My main folder for a number of years was some no name gas station knife with a serrated hawkbill blade, primarily because of how cool it looked, but ultimately that desire for a lock carried over and I kept buying pocket knives with some sort of lock afterwards. It wasn't until I purchased a SAK that I got another knife without a lock. Since then I have purchased a couple more folders with locks, but ultimately a small fixed blade booted my folders right out of my pocket.

 

[pinnah]

Carl, this is the difference between perceived risk and actual risk.

The former drives more decisions than the latter, at least that's been my experience.

 

[HFinn]

An old friend of mine, who lived just inside the Arctic Circle, once pointed out to me that it's kind of hard to open a small SAK at -20!

Jack

And that is the truth.

Both of my sons have been boy scouts. I bought them puukko's as soon they could handle one. Folder really was not an option.

Anyway, I personally just like lockbacks, risk or not. I FEEL that I am safer with a locking knife. That does not mean that I would do something really stupid with a knife, locking or not. Just a personal preference.

 

[puukkoman]

Some of my locking folders I find useful when it's very cold and I'm wearing gloves, since the blades are easier to deploy, having weaker pulls.

In terms of safety though, if I know I'm going to be doing something that might cause a slipjoint blade to fold, it might also cause a lock to fail, and I'll take a fixed blade.

Yep... Jack, great minds think alike.... and apparently, so do ours.

To the OP: You're preachin' to the choir here, pal. Pretty much everyone who frequents the Traditional forum is of a like mind regarding locks. Most of the pocket knives we carry & use do not have locks, and we're well versed in how to properly use a non-locking knife without incident (much to the consternation of the blacktical-flippy-blade-folding-prybar crowd).

 

[Faiaoga]

I believe that the newest official Swiss Army Knife (issue to Swiss military) does have a locing blade. Perhaps if MacGyver were being filmed today, he would use a SAK with a locking blade. Faiaoga (junior grade MacGyver)

 

[Jack Black]

I believe that the newest official Swiss Army Knife (issue to Swiss military) does have a locing blade. Perhaps if MacGyver were being filmed today, he would use a SAK with a locking blade. Faiaoga (junior grade MacGyver)

Oh those have been around a long time now The first Wenger Official World Scout Knife from the early 90's also had a locking main blade.

 

[Jack Black]

Yep... Jack, great minds think alike.... and apparently, so do ours.

To the OP: You're preachin' to the choir here, pal. Pretty much everyone who frequents the Traditional forum is of a like mind regarding locks. Most of the pocket knives we carry & use do not have locks, and we're well versed in how to properly use a non-locking knife without incident (much to the consternation of the blacktical-flippy-blade-folding-prybar crowd).

:thumbup:

 

[Elgreco]

I don't understand the hard use lock craze either. I don't have any slip joints besides a victorinox manager. I prefer the simple liner lock. Easy 1 hand opening and closing. When working on cars this is extremely useful.

 

[Phil in Alabama]

I only own one knife that "locks", a Queen #41 linerlock. Haven't accidentally closed a knife on a finger since I was a child, and I'm 47 now. I use slipjoint pocket knives as tools for various things, and if I am going to get into blood and gore such as when hunting, switch to a fixed blade. The fixed blade isn't because of fear of closing a blade on myself, it's because of the easy cleanup when finished. Slosh a fixed blade around in water, wipe it off and stuff it back into the sheath.

Also, with the pocketknives, I have a preference for multiple blades, and there are not very many traditional type knives with multiple locking blades.

 

[jakemex]

As with any other machine or locking knife or any other thing designed by man... Murphy's Law needs be consulted! Therefore I don't trust any lock mechanism...

 

[stingray4540]

Maybe one young guy gets one as a kid, nobody teaches him how to use it, so he ends up cutting himself really good, and blames the tool instead of admitting to a stupid mistake on his part. The tool is then forever branded as an unsafe thing... It's part of the modern thing to not take any personal responsibility, so the tool is blamed for injuries.

The same exact thing could be said about guns nowadays. Like you said, its a complete loss of personal responsibility in today's society that causes people to blame inanimate objects for the accidents/atrocities caused by humans and there poor judgement, lack of knowledge, or mental illness.

I often hear the excuse for why someone likes locking knives "because I had a slippie close on me once..." I always wonder if it was the design of the knife that was to blame, or the improper use of said knife. I haven't had a knife close on me yet, but I would think that if it ever happened, I would learn from my mistake instead of abandoning a tool because I did something wrong with it. I've hit my thumb with a hammer, but that hasn't stopped me from using one. It just made me pay more attention when I'm hammering things.

At a BBQ, I used a sodbuster, and I loaned it to a young lady to slice some of the bread, and her boyfriend told her not to use that knife because it was dangerous. He then handed her his black tactical thing, saying there was a reason that 'those' knives were not even made anymore, meaning my sodbuster, because they fold up on fingers with no warning.

All that being said, that doesn't mean there isn't a place for locking knives. If I was carrying a folder as a weapon, I would want a lock, or a fixed blade. Some people just like the type of knives that are only available with locks. If you prefer one type of knife over another just say so. But, to say that you won't buy a non locking folder because they are dangerous is just dumb.

 

[midnight flyer]

I realize that carrying traditional slipjoints for only fifty years makes me a youngster to many here. But I have to say, I am surprised at the thinly veiled amount of sneering going on for those that like a little extra safety when using their knives.

Then it hit on me. I would bet that most here don't use their knives for work like I do in my construction job, like Farmkid does for his daily duties, and a couple of others. In a blue collar world in the trades, lock backs (yep... the Buck 110) changed everything. Using a knife daily as a working tool isn't the same as cutting down a few boxes in for the recycle bin, cutting up your daily apple, making your dinner with it because you didn't want to use your kitchen knives, opening your mail, or cutting a few odds and ends of things on the weekend. Working for a summer in a manual labor job doesn't make you blue collar guy, nor does the fact you can wear a T shirt to work, or jeans on casual Friday. Working on your lawn doesn't count, nor does the occasional project that requires you to get really dirty for three or four days in a row. Nor does the fact that you don't have to wear a tie work count. Using tools all day for a couple of decades does.

As a tool, I want the safest thing I can get my hands on whether it is a saw, drill, router, sander or any other tool. Accidents happen. Mistakes happen. When you are tired at the end of a long day or physical labor, you have lapses of judgement. Yes, it would be nice to go home and call it a day, but any blue collar guy will tell you there isn't such a thing as an eight hour day. Like my father did and his father did, and yes, his father before him that worked on the railroad, you work until you are finished with your job or task. Tired is for weenies.

I don't think lockbacks are a sign of a nanny state, or the people that carry them don't know how to use knives. I don't think they were necessarily raised wrong or that they are aspiring ninjas.

When it is cold and wet, I am glad to have a bit more protection for my digits and self with a locking mechanism. When it is late in the day and my arthritic hands are hurting, I am glad a locked knife is a stiffer and easier to handle. When I am up working on a roof and am more scared than I should be about falling off, I am thankful that working in an odd position doesn't have the added aspect of worrying if I slip or misjudge just a bit that the knife will close on my fingers or hand. And a brand new aspect to this is how much my arthritis has advanced this year. I found out just how stiff my hands could get when working outside in the cold (30s) and I could hardly use my pencil to mark window trims. Operating my knife to sharpen my pencil as needed proved to be challenging and painful.

Over the years I have cut myself with knives and all manner of other tools as well. Now I am damn picky about the tools I buy an will spend the extra money for worthwhile safety devices on them. I want the safest piece of gear I can get and I never buy junk. Period. That includes knives.

I try never to do things I shouldn't with a knife, but stuff happens. So for those unsure tasks I use a locker. But I never leave for work without an extra sharp traditional in my pocket for all the "slicing only" tasks of the day. Since I am in the trades, most of my amigos are set up the same way.

I think most knives (not fantasy gear or zombie stuff) has a place in the tool box, and to me, after seeing how many fingers have been saved by lockbacks over decades of use, I am all for them if someone wants to use them.

Robert

 

[stingray4540]

1) As a tool, I want the safest thing I can get my hands on whether it is a saw, drill, router, sander or any other tool. Accidents happen. Mistakes happen.

2) I don't think lockbacks are a sign of a nanny state, or the people that carry them don't know how to use knives. I don't think they were necessarily raised wrong or that they are aspiring ninjas.

Robert

1) That's why in the 10+ years I spent in different construction trades, I carried a small fixed blade while working. If you want the right tool for the job, carry a sheath knife. You're carrying around a bunch of other tools already, what advantage does a folder offer you? In fact, in some jobs were I wore a tool belt, a folder was a disadvantage, because it was hard to get to my pockets under the tools and pouches.

2) Locking knives aren't a sign of a nanny state, they've been around for a long time. 20 year olds working in a cube farm that carry a $100 spyderco police to open mail is... Somehow they still manage to cut themselves. Hey, I should give them some slack some of them use it for more than opening boxes, like carving there initials in a park bench every once in a while.

 

[Ken44]

But I have to say, I am surprised at the thinly veiled amount of sneering going on for those that like a little extra safety when using their knives.

As am I.

I don't carry a locking knife for extra saftey though, and told me reasons for why I carry one.

 

[Samon]

Some of my locking folders I find useful when it's very cold and I'm wearing gloves, since the blades are easier to deploy, having weaker pulls.

In terms of safety though, if I know I'm going to be doing something that might cause a slipjoint blade to fold, it might also cause a lock to fail, and I'll take a fixed blade.

that's my think also. Just today I was playing with an oldgerman lock knif I had in a box and seeing as I hadn't taken it out inyears I figured I'd check it for blade play etc and a light force on the blade when fully open and locked and it shut on my finger! luckily I have the reflexes of a drunken fly so it only cut me a little..

I like my buck 110, but not because it's a lock knife, but because it's a classic I always liked the look of. I'd rather carry a slipjoint or a fixed blade providing the need/laws warrented it.