The Loveless Shop

[Michael Lovett]

Hi MIke,

Feel free to crawl back in your hole.

I asked a simple question. The same question that was asked of Gary Randall when Bo passed. He chose not to change the logo for business reasons.

The Lile's did change the Logo.

I suspect there are Hundreds of orders in the shop.

Three questions:

1) Are people who waited years for Loveless knife going to want a Loveless Shop logo'd knife.

2) Are the Loveless Shop Logo knives going to sell for the same price?

3) Are people going to pay the same price for a knife now for sure we know is made by Jim. Or will they take their money and look for a Loveless marked knife in the aftermarket?

No crap slinging...just fair business questions.

Given that two Loveless knives sold for prices that didn't even come close to the low end of the projected range at the Chicago Show Auction. Is that an anomaly or a indication of the coming aftermarket?

Steve Johnson had 4 knives and according to Martin had only 4 names put into the drawing. Given the fact (as pointed out by Bobby Branton) that there were 30 dealers in the room...what does that say about what these dealers feel about Steve's aftermarket prices now?

I don't know so I am asking your "expert" opinion on these questions.

I don't know why you are asking these questions. You have put down Bob Loveless and the Loveless Knife for years. You have stated that you will never purchase Loveless Knives. Saying that they were not a good investment. (While at same time bragging as to how fast the last one sold, and what a fool the buyer was.) You have said that they have toped out in value for years. Yet they just kept going up in value. Great example there Les!

As far as Steve's prices are concerned, it is economic downturn. It effects many. Including buyers. Steve prices his Knives for end purchasers, not dealers. You dropping you prices by a ton?

This is the very Reason Bob didn't deal with Dealers. It isn't our job to put food on your table, or send your kids to Collage.

I have seen you do this thread after thread, year after year.

So as far as you are concerned, what damed difference does it make!

Crawl back in my hole/ I could not find a hole as dark as your self important personality and greed.

I consider you from now on, shunned.


For every one else here, Thank you so much for your Kindness. It is Greatly Appreciated!

 

[giant1]

Interesting and informative post Mike. Thank you for taking the time to put it up.

While I have not had the good fortune to hold a Loveless knife as yet, they certainly do invoke the feeling that it could be something which is a class above the rest.

Sorry to see the usual self imposed "experts" trotting out their usual self serving comments. One or the other always seems to pop up all over the forums and it gets a bit tiresome reading garbage which invariably either tells us how great they are or is a negative post ripping into some poor bugger.

 

[Les Robertson]

Mike,

I don't know why you are asking these questions. You have put down Bob Loveless and the Loveless Knife for years. You have stated that you will never purchase Loveless Knives. Saying that they were not a good investment. (While at same time bragging as to how fast the last one sold, and what a fool the buyer was.) You have said that they have toped out in value for years. Yet they just kept going up in value. Great example there Les!

I have never said they have topped out. My questions, that you didn't answer, still stand open to anyone.

Im guessing you didn't see the results of the Chicago Auction...there were two knives that didn't "top" out.

Greed Mike?

Lets examine that. I have owned and sold one Loveless knife for exactly what I paid for it when I found out the "truth" about the knife.

You on the other hand have been on the "Loveless Tit" for years. How much money have you made Mike off of Bob Loveless's Designs? As every single knife you have made in the past 7 years or so...you had absolutely nothing to do with the design.

Perhaps David could do a knife book on you and your knives over the last decade...you know with just original Lovett's. Hell I could do that book...because there would be nothing in it.

Your part in this was to go to Loveless's shop and learn how "copy" his designs even better.

So as to greed, you are right, when it comes to Loveless you are greedy. Greedy for his designs, Greedy and happy to live in his shadow, Greedy for any scrap of time or help he could give. And the end to all this "Greed'. Is not to help to promote the Bob Loveless legend. Lets face it Mike, do you really think he needed your assistance in any aspect of that?

Of course the answer is no. No you were basically the sponge who copied his designs and used his status in the knife community for your own end.

With all this in mind, it is no wonder that you show blind devotion. Im sure you feared if you didn't Bob might take away your utilization of his designs.

It was the combination of respect and greed...that kept you devoted to Bob Loveless.

Shun? Shun? LOL You will be back

You have to be you are now the "Voice" of the Loveless shop! Oh Please...LOL

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi Giant,

While I have not had the good fortune to hold a Loveless knife as yet, they certainly do invoke the feeling that it could be something which is a class above the rest.

So really what you are saying is that you actually know little or nothing about the feel and craftsmanship of a Loveless knife? You are just guessing.

Giant, Mike didn't answer my questions in his post.

Why,

He has a vested interest in Loveless knives doing very well. If the prices drop for Loveless knives....the prices will drop for his knives. If the prices continue to go up...do you think Mike will benefit or not benefit from that (GREED)?

That combined with the fact he doesn't know. Which would have been the correct and honest answer from him.

Sorry to see the usual self imposed "experts" trotting out their usual self serving comments.

Loveless knives are now a commodity. As such collectors, those collectors who bought a Loveless with an eye towards an investment. Will be watching the market closely. Given this, The questions I asked are legitimate questions.

That said the usual self-imposed "experts" will defer to you superior knowledge of market pressures affecting the current and future Loveless aftermarket.

I look forward to your answers of my questions.

 

[sheathmaker]

Les and Mike, I consider both of you to be my friend as do many of the participants on this and other forums.

I realize you both have opinions that are directly opposite and to that end there is quite a bit of animosity between the two of you. You each have every right to air your opinions on this open forum, but have you, either of you, considered the very uncomfortable position in which you place your friends? Comment by us in favor of one alienates the other, and in the end the entire situation remains unchanged, a grand exercise in futility.

If your differences and the airing and defense of those positions really is that important to each of you, then, please, for your friends benefit take it off line to the privacy of your own email.

The very last thing I want is for either of you to decide to leave the forum, because each of you regularly make valuable contributions in the form of your insight and knowledge.

This is posted as a friend to you both. Please think about it.

Paul

 

[Les Robertson]

HI Paul,

My post was asking legit questions.

Mike came in with the Crap slinging comment.

I felt that Mike wants to be treated like he treats others...so I replied in kind.

All that aside. Now that I am "shunned" he will no longer respond to my posts, and that will be that.

No habla Kumbaya!

 

[sheathmaker]

Les, thanks for your prompt consideration.

Paul

 

[Kevin Jones]

Mike,

Im guessing you didn't see the results of the Chicago Auction...there were two knives that didn't "top" out.

I believe Steven, Mike and you Les have made good points in this thread. This is an interesting subject to say the least whether one follows Loveless knives or not.

I do believe you are reading more into the sale and the selling price of the two Loveless pieces at the Chicago auction then you perhaps should. You seem to be hanging your flag on them in mentioning their sales twice now.

First, from my observations those two models (though nice) aren't ones I would include in the most popular or sought after of Loveless designs.

Second, the estimates were a little high in my layperson opinion.

Third, I see them both selling as very positive, considering so many very nice pieces did not. For example, I think most would agree that Rodrigo Sfreddo and his knives are on fire, yet neither of his extremely nice offerings sold. Again, the estimates were high.

I hope this discussion continues here, if done so in a non belligerent manner.

 

[RogerP]

I For example, I think most would agree that Rodrigo Sfreddo and his knives are on fire, yet neither of his extremely nice offerings sold. Again, the estimates were high.

I know somewhere between little and nothing of the pricing of Loveless knives, but in respect of many of the other auction pieces, the minimum "estimates" were extremely optimistic.

Roger

 

[Kohai999]

I did not ask for opinions. It is for information only.
For once in your life, check your mouth and leave people alone!

Mike, you don't wear the martyr crown well.....Has it occurred to you that if you started this by stating that Jim Merritt asked you to post on BladeForums on behalf of The Shop, you would have been taken at face value....and any question would have been erased?

Your call to Jim was out of line and you should know better.

My call to Jim was made out of a) respect, and b) a request for documentation, as I explained to him, I want my nephew to know what he has when it is passed on to him...Phil Lobred encouraged me to get as much documentation to go with this knife as I could....that is not out of line. There are already copies of Loveless knives on the market, and there are sure to be more as time advances. A knife collector that does not document is a foolish knife collector.

We knew there would be three people that would attack. Two of the three have. Predictable as always. The perceived cleverness alludes you both. .

As far as who knew, they were supposed to keep it to themselves. Why they felt you of all people needed to know is puzzling. It was a private matter and certainly none of your business! They have lost any respect I had for them. Jim will feel no differently.

This has hardly been an attack, Mike....you provide much ammo for an attack, and I have not used it. I have been quite friendly, and you have gone on the defensive, I remain reasonable. You are not reading what I wrote....I DEDUCED that things were not well with Bob and shared my thoughts with the above named parties, whom I speak to on a regular basis. Does Phil Lobred even know who you are?

I have posted several compliments to you in just the last few days. Not one word from you. Not until this attack. You have insulted bob Loveless, Jim Merritt, and myself.

Had not seen but one compliment, Mike, but I do thank you....looking very much forward to seeing the knives that you will be producing in the coming months.

I'll call Jim this week and ask him if he feels I insulted him or Bob's memory...and if he does, I'll make my case and apology.....will be damned if I you need to involve yourself in that.

Regards is a remark of respect, not animosity.

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

 

[Kevin Jones]

I know somewhere between little and nothing of the pricing of Loveless knives, but in respect of many of the other auction pieces, the minimum "estimates" were extremely optimistic.

Roger

I'm surprised you think an estimate of $5,000-$7000 for the Sfreddo "Mogul Fighter" which he sold several months ago for I believe around $3,500 is extremely optimistic. Evidently, those bidding didn't share your opinion.

Don't get me wrong, it's an extremely nice piece, however has Rodrigo ever sold a piece in the $5000-$7000 range?

Let's get back to the topic of Loveless knives, of course after your last word.

 

[RogerP]

I'm surprised you think an estimate of $5,000-$7000 for the Sfreddo "Mogul Fighter" which he sold several months ago for I believe around $3,500 is extremely optimistic. Evidently, those bidding didn't share your opinion.

Don't get me wrong, it's an extremely nice piece, however has Rodrigo ever sold a piece in the $5000-$7000 range?

Let's get back to the topic of Loveless knives, of course after your last word.

Evidently they did, which is why the piece didn't sell. Kevin, you get that "extremely optimistic" means "too high" right? Are you so convinced that I am "after you" that you can't even see when I am agreeing with you?

Roger

 

[martinr]

Evidently they did, which is why the piece didn't sell. Kevin, you get that "extremely optimistic" means "too high" right? Are you so convinced that I am "after you" that you can't even see when I am agreeing with you

Roger

I heard a couple of comments about there being a crack in the handle of that Sfreddo knife. That might have had something to do with it not selling.

Also, there were lots of Loveless knives on dealers tables that did nor sell either.

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

Greed Mike?

Lets examine that. I have owned and sold one Loveless knife for exactly what I paid for it when I found out the "truth" about the knife.

You on the other hand have been on the "Loveless Tit" for years. How much money have you made Mike off of Bob Loveless's Designs? As every single knife you have made in the past 7 years or so...you had absolutely nothing to do with the design.

Perhaps David could do a knife book on you and your knives over the last decade...you know with just original Lovett's. Hell I could do that book...because there would be nothing in it.

Your part in this was to go to Loveless's shop and learn how "copy" his designs even better.

So as to greed, you are right, when it comes to Loveless you are greedy. Greedy for his designs, Greedy and happy to live in his shadow, Greedy for any scrap of time or help he could give. And the end to all this "Greed'. Is not to help to promote the Bob Loveless legend. Lets face it Mike, do you really think he needed your assistance in any aspect of that?

Of course the answer is no. No you were basically the sponge who copied his designs and used his status in the knife community for your own end.

With all this in mind, it is no wonder that you show blind devotion. Im sure you feared if you didn't Bob might take away your utilization of his designs.

It was the combination of respect and greed...that kept you devoted to Bob Loveless.

Shun? Shun? LOL You will be back

You have to be you are now the "Voice" of the Loveless shop! Oh Please...LOL

:thumbdn:

Personally Les I think calling Mike "greedy" was way over the line.

His friendship with Bob and Jim goes beyond the knives. The above is a personal attack that didn't need to be said on forum , you could have reserved that for in person , or email. It shows poor taste in my opinion.

 

[RogerP]

I heard a couple of comments about there being a crack in the handle of that Sfreddo knife. That might have had something to do with it not selling.

Also, there were lots of Loveless knives on dealers tables that did nor sell either.

If the handle were cracked, I expect that would have been a factor. Though even in pristine condition, I would have considered $5 - 7k an optimistic estimate for this piece, spectacular as it is.

Do Loveless knives generally fly off dealers' tables? Never having been a buyer for such a knife, I really wouldn't know. When I was at the Chicago show two years ago there certainly were a number of them on dealers' tables. Whether they all (or most) sold then, I couldn't say.

Roger

 

[RogerP]

:thumbdn:

Personally Les I think calling Mike "greedy" was way over the line.

I'm curious as to whether you thought Mike calling Les greedy was equally over the line and in poor taste? After all, he was first to chuck that particular rock. In fact, all Les had done before Mike accused him of 'making trouble' was stating the Jim getting the shop was the right thing (not really in dispute, I don't think) and inquiring about plans for marking the knives going forward (not objectionable in any way). Sure, the haymakers started flying pretty quickly, but the guy that takes the first unprovoked swing doesn't get to cry victim, in my view.

Roger

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi John,

If you go back and reread the threads you will find he implied I was "greedy".

I have never, ever profited in any way, shape or form from Loveless knives...the ones made by him, Steve Johnson, Kuzan Oda or Jim Merritt.

Mike on the other hand has directly profited...through copying Loveless designs.

My point was and is...if someone was greedy it was Mike.

My post was on this forum...was in direct response to his post.

Again, just like with Paul's post...I had to point out that he posted the despairing comment first.

While I understand that kinder gentler beings will turn the other cheek when insulted in public...I am not one of those people

Perhaps if you and others felt that I was too harsh with Mike. I suggest you or one of the other members take it up with Mike to contact me off line. Before he decides to insult me on this forum.

I commend you for the fact that you don't take direct insults to your character personally. I will strive to raise my self to your sense of grandeur.

I have no doubt he values his friendship with Bob and Jim.

That said, remember, the only reason you know who Mike is...because he made a copy of another well known maker's design. Not...I repeat Not for anything he did on his own.

That is not a personal attack...that is a fact.

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi Roger,

If you are going to cloud the issue with facts...you will be asked to leave this thread!

Thanks Roger.

 

[John T Wylie Jr]

I'm curious as to whether you thought Mike calling Les greedy was equally over the line and in poor taste? After all, he was first to chuck that particular rock.

Roger

Les took it to a whole other level, but it is just my opinion and may not be the same as others , and I am ok with it.

edited to add:
Indeed emotions are running high , might be best for all to take a step back , go outside , enjoy the sunshine , and revisit after tempers have cooled.

 

[RogerP]

Les took it to a whole other level, but it is just my opinion and may not be the same as others , and I am ok with it.

edited to add:
Indeed emotions are running high , might be best for all to take a step back , go outside , enjoy the sunshine , and revisit after tempers have cooled.

That may be - and yes - it is a point that people may view differently. But if you start things off with a strong right jab and the guy you hit responds with a crushing left hook... well... you see what I mean.

This does seem to be a particularly fractious day on the forums - and I think your advice is sound. It's raining here, but a couple cold ones and couple hours of football will have to compensate. Have a good one.

Roger