The Loveless Shop

HI JP,

Originally Posted by JParanee View Post
All I can say is you guy's have not seen anything yet when it comes to fighting over the Loveless Legacy
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Someone right here on this forum has been saying that exact same thing for....Years!

As Ricky used to say..."Lucy...you got some splanin to do."
 
Loveless is a brand name and has been for quite a while now. As soon as everyone accepts that the better off this will be.
 
Hi Severed,

In theory "Brand Loveless" is a good concept.

In reality, "Brand Loveless" will not start until Jim changes the logo.

As I have stated earlier, those who have knives actually made by Bob are not going to allow those who have Loveless knives not made by Bob to "lump" them together.

Honestly, can you blame them?
 
Wow... interesting thread. But, very informative.

While I always wanted a Loveless knife, I wasn't aware of the changes in the business end of his knife shop.

Anyhow, sad to hear a master and gentleman has passed.
 
Les Robertson said:
As I have stated earlier, those who have knives actually made by Bob are not going to allow those who have Loveless knives not made by Bob to "lump" them together.
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Hi.

Maybe you could explain exactly how you think that "those who have knives actually made by Bob" (or even "those who have knives that were pretty much made by Jim Merritt but which have an R.W. Loveless Maker logo on them") are not going to allow this?

As someone who belongs to one or both of those two categories, I would be curious to hear this.

TIA.
 
I have followed this thread simply because it has been very interesting to learn about all the "behind the scenes" stuff that goes on.

I have always liked his knives but never enough to pay the silly prices that they fetch especially when you consider that some knives were made by Bob and some were not but you still get Bob's logo. :rolleyes:

There is no doubt that it has become about a brand and the marketing hype that drives it. These knives are now objects that can be traded much like stocks or commodities. You need to know which is the "right" model, style etc. They are not just knives anymore.

I mean honestly, 5, 10, 15 or 20K for a KNIFE!!!!!! How good would the steel have to be, the finish, the fixings. The damn thing would need to have an edge that stays razer sharp without ever requiring to be sharpened no matter how you use it. I am not taking away from Bob's mastery of making a knife, his skills and designs are beyond question, but from what I have read about Bob even he shook his head at the stupid prices.
 
Humm?
They've been lumped together for well over 40 years!

If a collector or dealer didn't - doesn't know this, they haven't been paying attention. And haven't been for a "Very" long time.

Bob never make any bones about it! He has always been up front about it.

I don't know how anyone would know how much of any knife Bob made unless they were standing in the loveless Shop while any given Knife was being made.

This is all a very old story. If there is any one thing I have learned about Loveless Knives, it is that very few collectors, much less dealers, know much of anything about Loveless Knives.

More importantly, what they do know, isn't the things that mattered to Bob at all. Most miss the point entirely.



Mike
Maker
The Loveless Connection Knives
 
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a brand and the marketing hype
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How good would the steel have to be, the finish, the fixings
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From what little I’ve been able to gather a Loveless Knife is more than any individual part, component, material or design element- it’s the totality of all the elements combined in a way that makes it exemplary for it’s intended use.

Knowledgeable people who have handled them and I think this is the Key- Handled Them hold them in the highest esteem almost the pinnacle of the art even after handling many other knives by many other makers.

I believe it would be presumptuous to make a judgment on them based on photographs or comments by people who have never actually handled one.

Just because collectors have pushed the price beyond most peoples means doesn’t diminish the basic fact they seem to be amazing knives respected by those who know.


All of this has only piqued my curiosity and makes me even more curious as to what is behind the mystique and why. Because honestly- I think it’s real.
 
Michael Lovett said:
Humm?
They've been lumped together for well over 40 years!

If a collector or dealer didn't - doesn't know this, they haven't paying attention. And haven't been for a "Very" long time.
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Mike,

That was kind of my point. The Internet is a flat communication medium, and maybe I needed a tongue-in-cheek emoticon.

Now here is another question:

What is the difference between a knife made by Jim Merritt that says "R.W. Loveless Maker" and a knife made by Jim Merritt after Bob Loveless' passing that says "R.W. Loveless Maker" and a knife made by Jim Merritt that says "The Loveless Shop?"


Answer: Several Thou$and Buck$
 
The Virginian said:
Hi.

Maybe you could explain exactly how you think that "those who have knives actually made by Bob" (or even "those who have knives that were pretty much made by Jim Merritt but which have an R.W. Loveless Maker logo on them") are not going to allow this?

As someone who belongs to one or both of those two categories, I would be curious to hear this.

TIA.
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I would really like to hear the answer to your question Virginian. I thought the same thing several weeks ago when I read the post but since it was the last post I did not want to bring this back to the top of the discussion forum, as this thread is almost toxic. Since it is back to the top, I am all ears.

John
 
cnas, why would you assume that - the question above has likely been on a lot of minds since this thread started...
 
The Virginian said:
Mike,

That was kind of my point. The Internet is a flat communication medium, and maybe I needed a tongue-in-cheek emoticon.

Now here is another question:

What is the difference between a knife made by Jim Merritt that says "R.W. Loveless Maker" and a knife made by Jim Merritt after Bob Loveless' passing that says "R.W. Loveless Maker" and a knife made by Jim Merritt that says "The Loveless Shop?"


Answer: Several Thou$and Buck$
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I don't know. Only time will tell. I do know this. A Knife marked Loveless Johnson will may times bring more than the same knife marked Loveless. Steve was only there around 1 1/2 years. Yet they bring a premium. I suspect that one day soon, Knives marked Loveless Merritt will as well. But perhaps not. You never quite know how the dealers and collectors are going to react, or hype a given product.

Jim was not going to change the Logo. We didn't' want to see what happened to Lyle Knives happen to Loveless Knives. (However there were a lot of things that happened to hurt Lile Knives after Jimmy's passing. That is another story).

On the other hand, Randal Knives for instance, didn't change a thing. And the demand never dropped.

There has been a lot of pressure put on Jim to change the Logo. Some of it from members here.

Heres's the thing. Many dealers and collectors feel it will make the value of their knives soar if the logo changes. On Knives they already have,or will be able to get at a good price. Yes it will. For the knives they have at the moment. However. They may very well be shooting themselves in the foot for years to come.

I fear Greed may have gotten in the way of reason here. Going for the killing all at once, rather than the continuing climb, will only last for a short time.

This is why Jim and I were both against the change. The "Long Run" is more important that the right now!

But the pressure was on to change it. Oddly enough, from some here on the forum that have no stake in the future of the Loveless shop what so ever. Other than their own self importance here on the forum.
Every one has an opinion that benefits them. Nothing new here.

Mike
Maker
The Loveless Connection Knives
 
braillediver said:
From what little I’ve been able to gather a Loveless Knife is more than any individual part, component, material or design element- it’s the totality of all the elements combined in a way that makes it exemplary for it’s intended use.

Knowledgeable people who have handled them and I think this is the Key- Handled Them hold them in the highest esteem almost the pinnacle of the art even after handling many other knives by many other makers.

I believe it would be presumptuous to make a judgment on them based on photographs or comments by people who have never actually handled one.

Just because collectors have pushed the price beyond most peoples means doesn’t diminish the basic fact they seem to be amazing knives respected by those who know.


All of this has only piqued my curiosity and makes me even more curious as to what is behind the mystique and why. Because honestly- I think it’s real.
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These are the "truest" words I have ever seen written here.

Mike
Maker
The Loveless Connection Knives
 
Michael Lovett said:
I don't know. Only time will tell. I do know this. A Knife marked Loveless Johnson will may times bring more than the same knife marked Loveless. Steve was only there around 1 1/2 years. Yet they bring a premium. I suspect that one day soon, Knives marked Loveless Merritt will as well. But perhaps not. You never quite know how the dealers and collectors are going to react, or hype a given product.

Jim was not going to change the Logo. We didn't' want to see what happened to Lyle Knives happen to Loveless Knives. (However there were a lot of things that happened to hurt Lile Knives after Jimmy's passing. That is another story).

On the other hand, Randal Knives for instance, didn't change a thing. And the demand never dropped.

There has been a lot of pressure put on Jim to change the Logo. Some of it from members here.

Heres's the thing. Many dealers and collectors feel it will make the value of their knives soar if the logo changes. On Knives they already have,or will be able to get at a good price. Yes it will. For the knives they have at the moment. However. They may very well be shooting themselves in the foot for years to come.

I fear Greed may have gotten in the way of reason here. Going for the killing all at once, rather than the continuing climb, will only last for a short time.

This is why Jim and I were both against the change. The "Long Run" is more important that the right now!

But the pressure was on to change it. Oddly enough, from some here on the forum that have no stake in the future of the Loveless shop what so ever. Other than their own self importance here on the forum.
Every one has an opinion that benefits them. Nothing new here.

Mike
Maker
The Loveless Connection Knives
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Why let a few people on this forum influence the decision to change the name or not??

It's painfully obvious why they would want the name change (even before you stated the reason in your post)

If there is a real market for Loveless knives in the real world then a few posts and comments on a knife forum should amount to didly squat!!
 
Michael Lovett said:
Jim was not going to change the Logo.

. . .

There has been a lot of pressure put on Jim to change the Logo. Some of it from members here.
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Maybe that is the answer to my question.

One final gratuitous observation from me. I absolutely DO believe that changing the logo(s) will reduce demand for future knives from The Loveless Shop . . . to the detriment of The Loveless Shop and to the financial benefit of the speculators in Loveless knives. For that reason alone I really wish the logo(s) would not change. However, as I said, I realize that is just a gratuitous opinion, as the final decision is and should be no one's but the owner of The Loveless Shop.
 
giant1 said:
Why let a few people on this forum influence the decision to change the name or not??

It's painfully obvious why they would want the name change (even before you stated the reason in your post)

If there is a real market for Loveless knives in the real world then a few posts and comments on a knife forum should amount to didly squat!!
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Jim i just tired of all the on going phone calls telling him what he should do. It has been un-relenting. He can't get any work sone at al lfor answering the phone with all the advice!

Thank You so Much "V"!

I just talked to L. Chow a few minutes ago on the phone. He had a great Couple of days at the Plaza Show. Lots of interest in The Loveless Knives. And WooHoo, The Loveless Connection Knives as well!;)

Mike
Maker
The Loveless connection Knives
 
"On the other hand, Randal Knives for instance, didn't change a thing. And the demand never dropped."

Michael, what you wrote above is only partially correct - things did change at the Randall Shop when W.D. 'Bo' Randall's son Gary T. Randall took over. Specifically, standardization of the models and options - and while new models and options have become available since; with many avid collectors, the older 'individually characteristic' knives command a premium.

Anyhoo, if you weren't aware of this, I thought you should be... ;)
 
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