The next pre-order?

ace said:
Thank you for linking this, haven't seen it. Very interesting results, I wouldn't expect a harder steel to deform when geometry is same, can't argue with empirical evidence though. Would be interesting to know why this happens. I would expect it to chip. I guess it doesn't quite make it to 4v levels. In my use MagnaCut has been great, but I use it in kitchen knives with very accute and thin edges. So far edge stability and retention has been excellent in that environment.

Since I got a MagnaCut and 4v mules will be interesting to compare the two with some harsher use.
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I'm waiting on a magnacut mule to be delivered myself!
 
ace said:
What is the intended use? You could flip the question around and ask where would you benefit with choosing d3v.

MagnaCut is significantly more corrosion resistant for example. This might or might not be a benefit. It has better edge retation and can get harder easier, but it is not as tough. For small knives like dek 1/3 is toughness of d3v needed?

I look at it simply, d3v is a known quantity. Nathan picked MagnaCut as one of the steels to make knives in, so he must like it to some extent, unless you guys don't trust his judgement.

Try it for yourself, maybe it will work better for your use. As far as heat treat goes, Larrin designed the steel to be used in knives, he provides heat treat recepy, so it is good. Can it be tweaked to work better for specific, narrow applications, maybe, but you won't get a night and day difference in performance. For that you would have to switch to a steel that works better for your application.
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If I find D3V corrosion resistant enough, is there any reason to go to Magnacut?

To be honest, I never oil my CPKs and never had any issues w corrosion/rust.
 
fatfrog said:
If I find D3V corrosion resistant enough, is there any reason to go to Magnacut?

To be honest, I never oil my CPKs and never had any issues w corrosion/rust.
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It is possible we might achieve higher edge stability or primary grind durability from the higher rockwell hardness like we see with 4V. In my tests so far that is not the case, but we have not received enough material to do an exhaustive workup yet.

If the corrosion resistance of Delta 3V is enough for you, I personally would not see the benefit of using a different alloy because the optimized CPM 3V has a pretty sweet combination of properties.

That said, there are a bunch of people that want a stainless option and Magnacut might be the best real world stainless steel available today. When I say real world I'm talking about a durable knife that keeps its edge in real use, not just abrasive wear in cardstock cut tests. It's amazing the people who equate abrasive wear resistance with edge retention. They're not remotely the same thing.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
It is possible we might achieve higher edge stability or primary grind durability from the higher rockwell hardness like we see with 4V. In my tests so far that is not the case, but we have not received enough material to do an exhaustive workup yet.

If the corrosion resistance of Delta 3V is enough for you, I personally would not see the benefit of using a different alloy because the optimized CPM 3V has a pretty sweet combination of properties.

That said, there are a bunch of people that want a stainless option and Magnacut might be the best real world stainless steel available today. When I say real world I'm talking about a durable knife that keeps its edge in real use, not just abrasive wear in cardstock cut tests. It's amazing the people who equate abrasive wear resistance with edge retention. They're not remotely the same thing.
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I think I would lean towards Magnacut if I lived near the coasts but I'm fairly landlocked so D3V has served me very well. The higher rockwell hardness is interesting though... hmm I'd def go Magnacut if you made another TATER KNAFF
 
fatfrog said:
I think I would lean towards Magnacut if I lived near the coasts but I'm fairly landlocked so D3V has served me very well. The higher rockwell hardness is interesting though... hmm I'd def go Magnacut if you made another TATER KNAFF
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If you think of the DEK3 as an EDC with more of a food-prep bend than the DEK1 and 2, I could see the stainless and increased hardness being pretty sweet. That said, I'm not sure I want to give up D3V even then.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
It is possible we might achieve higher edge stability or primary grind durability from the higher rockwell hardness like we see with 4V. In my tests so far that is not the case, but we have not received enough material to do an exhaustive workup yet.

If the corrosion resistance of Delta 3V is enough for you, I personally would not see the benefit of using a different alloy because the optimized CPM 3V has a pretty sweet combination of properties.

That said, there are a bunch of people that want a stainless option and Magnacut might be the best real world stainless steel available today. When I say real world I'm talking about a durable knife that keeps its edge in real use, not just abrasive wear in cardstock cut tests. It's amazing the people who equate abrasive wear resistance with edge retention. They're not remotely the same thing.
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This should be in a sticky for all to see as they enter.

Thank you for that, Nathan.

Cue Aretha...

B-A-L-A-N-C-E...

Find out what it means to me...

Respect.
 
fatfrog said:
If I find D3V corrosion resistant enough, is there any reason to go to Magnacut?

To be honest, I never oil my CPKs and never had any issues w corrosion/rust.
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Apart from obvious stainless properties (Spyderco made a salt knife from MagnaCut) there is a potential to make a better cutting tool using MagnaCut instead of 3V.

I have not received my MagnaCut mule yet or had extensive D3V use experience (my behemother sitting in a drawer until I get access to some woodland), but in theory, MagnaCut will make a better cutting knife. This is not only because it has higher edge retention, but it is quite tough (perhaps tougher than 3V) at high hardness (62+). So it will not roll or chip under normal use when ground thin.

The carbide content (i.e. volume fraction) of MagnaCut is also twice as high as 3V (5 % vs 10 %) which is the reason for increased abrasive resistance. When the increased abrasion resistance, higher hardness of steel matrix and the thinner geometry is combined, the resultant blade made of MagnaCut will be a much better cutting tool compared to a knife made from 3V with a softer steel matrix and thicker grind. It will also take a keener edge (due to thinner grind) and will hold that edge longer (due to abrasion resistance or edge stability depending on what you are cutting with it).

Assuming two knives optimised for their respective steels, the one made of MagnaCut would slice better than the 3V knife since the 3V knife does not get as hard without losing a significant amount of its main advantage (i.e. toughness). So, a 3V knife can not be as thin as a MagnaCut knife. On the other hand, thin and hard MagnaCut knife can not be as durable as 60.5 HRC D3V knife with a thicker geometry.

If Nathan makes the MagnaCut DEK1 exactly the same as D3V DEK1 (i.e. same geometry and hardness), there will not be much point (in my opinion) buying the MagnaCut one unless you prioritise corrosion resistance over toughness. Yes, MagnaCut will have more abrasion resistance, but with a significant penalty on toughness. But, still, I do not think MagnaCut DEK1 with the same hardness and geometry as D3V DEK1 would be a fragile knife given that neither the grind on DEK1 is extremely thin nor MagnaCut is a fragile stainless.

So the takeaway point would be if both 3V and MagnaCut share the same hardness and geometry (i.e. the properties optimised for 3V) it is personal preference which one to buy (stainless over toughness or another way around). But if MagnaCut is hardened to 62-63 HRC and ground thin (10 tho or less TBE), I would pick MagnaCut DEK1 over D3V DEK1 any day of the week.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
It is possible we might achieve higher edge stability or primary grind durability from the higher rockwell hardness like we see with 4V. In my tests so far that is not the case, but we have not received enough material to do an exhaustive workup yet.
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Hi Nathan. It would be great if could elaborate on that. For instance, did you compare it to 4V and other than steel all other parameters (i.e. geometry and hardness) was the same?
 
murat1983 said:
So the takeaway point would be if both 3V and MagnaCut share the same hardness and geometry (i.e. the properties optimised for 3V) it is personal preference which one to buy (stainless over toughness or another way around). But if MagnaCut is hardened to 62-63 HRC and ground thin (10 tho or less TBE), I would pick MagnaCut DEK1 over D3V DEK1 any day of the week.
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Nathan the Machinist Nathan the Machinist Is it time for a hard/thin magnacut DEK1? ;) Or maybe a hard/thin skinning knife or EDC.
 
Nathan the Machinist said:
It is possible we might achieve higher edge stability or primary grind durability from the higher rockwell hardness like we see with 4V. In my tests so far that is not the case, but we have not received enough material to do an exhaustive workup yet.

If the corrosion resistance of Delta 3V is enough for you, I personally would not see the benefit of using a different alloy because the optimized CPM 3V has a pretty sweet combination of properties.

That said, there are a bunch of people that want a stainless option and Magnacut might be the best real world stainless steel available today. When I say real world I'm talking about a durable knife that keeps its edge in real use, not just abrasive wear in cardstock cut tests. It's amazing the people who equate abrasive wear resistance with edge retention. They're not remotely the same thing.
Click to expand...
I'm soaking up anything you post about MagnaCut

Can't wait to see some videos comparing !!!
 
murat1983 said:
Apart from obvious stainless properties (Spyderco made a salt knife from MagnaCut) there is a potential to make a better cutting tool using MagnaCut instead of 3V.

I have not received my MagnaCut mule yet or had extensive D3V use experience (my behemother sitting in a drawer until I get access to some woodland), but in theory, MagnaCut will make a better cutting knife. This is not only because it has higher edge retention, but it is quite tough (perhaps tougher than 3V) at high hardness (62+). So it will not roll or chip under normal use when ground thin.

The carbide content (i.e. volume fraction) of MagnaCut is also twice as high as 3V (5 % vs 10 %) which is the reason for increased abrasive resistance. When the increased abrasion resistance, higher hardness of steel matrix and the thinner geometry is combined, the resultant blade made of MagnaCut will be a much better cutting tool compared to a knife made from 3V with a softer steel matrix and thicker grind. It will also take a keener edge (due to thinner grind) and will hold that edge longer (due to abrasion resistance or edge stability depending on what you are cutting with it).

Assuming two knives optimised for their respective steels, the one made of MagnaCut would slice better than the 3V knife since the 3V knife does not get as hard without losing a significant amount of its main advantage (i.e. toughness). So, a 3V knife can not be as thin as a MagnaCut knife. On the other hand, thin and hard MagnaCut knife can not be as durable as 60.5 HRC D3V knife with a thicker geometry.

If Nathan makes the MagnaCut DEK1 exactly the same as D3V DEK1 (i.e. same geometry and hardness), there will not be much point (in my opinion) buying the MagnaCut one unless you prioritise corrosion resistance over toughness. Yes, MagnaCut will have more abrasion resistance, but with a significant penalty on toughness. But, still, I do not think MagnaCut DEK1 with the same hardness and geometry as D3V DEK1 would be a fragile knife given that neither the grind on DEK1 is extremely thin nor MagnaCut is a fragile stainless.

So the takeaway point would be if both 3V and MagnaCut share the same hardness and geometry (i.e. the properties optimised for 3V) it is personal preference which one to buy (stainless over toughness or another way around). But if MagnaCut is hardened to 62-63 HRC and ground thin (10 tho or less TBE), I would pick MagnaCut DEK1 over D3V DEK1 any day of the week.
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This is all exciting but I’m waiting for Nathan to dial in the heat treat and test before I let myself get too excited about magnacut.
 
ratattack said:
As someone new to CPK, is there a limit on preorders typically? First come first serve or is there a reasonably comfortable window to order?
Thanks in advance
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A preorder will not be a rush like a normal friday sale. And they are usually open a few days at least. I don't remember if there has ever been a limit during a preorder, but you should have time to find out when it posts.
 
Dek2 is thicker different blade shape, dek3 different blade shape, and I think is thinner.....not sure on blade lengths on either but believe all handles are similar

But I'm not positive and I'm usually wrong lol
 
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