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Hmmmmm.... Ballistically, not much.
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The reality of wilderness animal attack and carrying firearms
- Thread starter dan-g
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Latest Cabelas catalog, Buffalo Bore 45-70. 500 gr fmj at 1625 fps or 430 gr LBT-LFN at 1925 fps. 500 s&w Buffalo Bore, 440 gr at 1625 fps. 460 S&W 360 gr at 1,900 fps. Actually, when I lived in Alaska the two S&W hand cannons did not exist. The .454 casull was just getting started. So I apologize. My information is actually quite dated. The guides I talked to in the mid 1980's carried 12 guage (fishing guides) and .458 win mag (Bear guides). I only talked to two. Also, Bear Spray also did not really exist (or was not available as "Bear Spray" in the early 1980's.
I too have read several recent articles that claim statisticly non-hunters are more likely to survival a grizely (sp?) attacks with "bear Spray" than with a fire arm.
When I went out in the wild on fishing trips in Alaska I carried an open sited 30-06 because that is what I owned.
I too have read several recent articles that claim statisticly non-hunters are more likely to survival a grizely (sp?) attacks with "bear Spray" than with a fire arm.
When I went out in the wild on fishing trips in Alaska I carried an open sited 30-06 because that is what I owned.
I have only carried bear-spray or pepper spray while backpacking.
I did carry a firearm once or twice as an experiment. I did not like it. I felt that it made me think different and it was a freaking pain to manage. I was one of those ultralight, long-distance freaks
I did carry a firearm once or twice as an experiment. I did not like it. I felt that it made me think different and it was a freaking pain to manage. I was one of those ultralight, long-distance freaks
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How can carrying a firearm make you think different? Was it whispering in your ear? KILL KILL KILL?
No..I was just more conscious of it. It was something I usually did not carry. I associated the tool with hunting not backpacking. It was just a pain and I ended cramming it in a stuff sack after the 4th day and putting in the bottom of my pack. So it was basically dead weight for the following 2 weeks.
I personally feel I somehow had compromised and brought something unneeded. I was totally into the ultralight ethic where you only carry what is needed and leave no trace. It just seem contrary to why I had started backpacking in the first place.
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Not to bust your chops but they make ultra lite guns and if you shove it in your pack it wouldn't bother you and if needed you could help someone else if nessessary.In your pack it wouldn't help you protect your own bacon most likely, but hopefully someone else will have a firearm in there pack to help others in need.
The whole gun is only for killing animals or causing destruction bothers me,"Not that you believe that".But in general.I see the firearm as something good.A tool that can be used to help people.As most people are good and only a small percentage of humans prey on people I believe the more good people with firearms the better.
I agree and have no problem with firearms. My whole family was into bullseye shooting and traveling to pistol matches were a regular weekly event. "Mento mint" and "cut the stake" matches were huge at the family barbecues. I started hunting at the age of 8. Ed McGivern, Bill Blankenship and my Dad were my heroes growing up. I have a CCW but rarely carry.
Ultralight backpacking was just something I loved, separate from my family, and firearms just never fit into my view of it. Have never had any issue in over 30 years and thousands of miles.
i personally own 15 firearms. all rifles and shotguns in a variety of options. i have never carried them for the purpose of safety. they are simply hunting gear. if i'm not hunting i don't carry.
ofcourse this leads down the path of where i am in the bush relative to you and what the threats may be. people are not a problem, more bear, moose and unicorns probably than people haha) but i also do not have to worry about brown bear or any number of animals that lurk around the world.
in all my years of carrying firearms into the bush for hunting i have never even had to concider it as a personal safety item.
may my luck continue.
ofcourse this leads down the path of where i am in the bush relative to you and what the threats may be. people are not a problem, more bear, moose and unicorns probably than people haha) but i also do not have to worry about brown bear or any number of animals that lurk around the world.
in all my years of carrying firearms into the bush for hunting i have never even had to concider it as a personal safety item.
may my luck continue.
Laugh if you will. This unicorn found out what happens when you confront an armed foe.
Thanks to BoingBoing!
Until the wind is strong in your face - that's not cool as all you've done is spice up the bear's snack.
I've used spray and a 12 gauge and I'll take the 14" 870 every time - I can always fire a shot to deter and if it doesn't work I've still got options. If the spray doesn't work you need sneakers and rally good cardio or outstanding climbing ability...
blake
sounds like a mindset issue.
sounds like you view guns as good for target shooting or hunting,, but don;'t want to be bothered with carrying something sor self defense.
i don't know where you are in NM, but Albuquerque just had a workplace shooting. i know a gou from another forum who's wife sat across the aisle from the woman who was killed. if she hadn't been laid off and thus not at work she might have had a ringside seat for the shooting or been a victim herself.
she has seen the light and finally decided to get her CCW.
personally i'm at a loss as to why someone who will jump thru the hoops to get their CCW would NOT carry daily.
if it's "too heavy" get a lighter gun. if you work in a NPE, get a better holster, change your wardrobe or perhaps a *slightly* smaller gun. but unless you work someplace with metal detectors i just don't get it.
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It sounds to me as though some folks will not be happy unless everyone else adopts their approach to weaponized defence. Why is this? tomcrx seems like a responsible fellow and a definite gun enthusiast. He seems to have assessed his situation and decided that 24-7 carry for defence is not something he needs / wants to do (seems to have worked out over 30 years). The very fact that he has obtained the permit to carry suggests that he is a supporter of others' right to do so if they choose. Why assess his situation and deem that he should carry more often?
I have nothing against people carrying, talking about carrying, etc. But the wilderness armament evangelism stuff is a bit grating.
Respectfully,
- Mike
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Wind does not render bearspray ineffective.... it limits the range. If you are hunting or walking with shotgun in hand, you have a better than average chance of using it accurately... most don't. Carry what feels best to you.
Amen, brother..... lol.
Please..... somebody show me a report that states guns are more effective than spray with regard to animal attacks.
I'm not trying to be smart here.... I am trying to educate myself.... so far, spray seems to be the best option.
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1. I'm not so opposed to the range limitations of wind as I am to the "Oh crap - I just sprayed myself" factor. I've been sprayed with OC better than a dozen times just in training, and twice when a partner deployed it in a "less than ideal environment" (I was hands-on with the "sprayee" at the time) and I wouldn't classify it as something I'd do for fun on a Friday nite. Especially when something toothy is eyeing me up for an hors d'ouvre. You might want to have someone spray you so that you get the full impact of what i'm saying - and I don't mean just a little "I only want a little taste" spritz :jerkit:, I mean a big ole "holy CRAP, panicked, he's gonna eat me
can emptying" spray. It puts OC and it's corollory effects into a somewhat different light.I do absolutely agree that folks should carry what they are comfortable with, I just think that far too many consider spray a panacea just as many do the same with firearms. They both require training otherwise they're just as often a liability as they are a problem solver.
In my experience I have seen firearms fail less often than spray - YMM (obviously) V, so when the spray fails give me a call - no guarantee that I can be there in time though...
2. Not a study, but I know lots of folks who have both sprayed and shot black bears (I have done both) and I know lots more who have moved from spray to gun :thumbup: (usually 12 ga pump) than from gun to spray:thumbdn:...
Remember that Ontario has fully 1/3 of the entire world's black bear population and the cancellation of the spring bear hunt hasn't done anything to lower those numbers. We see far more of them north of the French River than folks down south do - we live with nature here as opposed to attempting to manage it from a distance. I have one very good friend on the local PD here who alone shot 11 bears right in town in one summer not that long ago. Do that in Midland or Barrie and see what kind of uproar you generate.
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You're a weenie for accepting someone elses opinion that carrying a firearm is illogical. Grow a pair man, and do what you want to do, what you feel you should do, without letting the opinions of others influence you.
There is absolutely nothing illogical about carrying a firearm. The only thing that is going to stop a violent assault on your or your loved ones by either 2 legged or 4 legged predators, is a greater amount of violence coming from your directed toward them. Personally, I think those that ignore the very obvious threats present in their environment and refuse to carry a tool to defend themselves are illogical.
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'bout time to put this thread to bed?
Don't be hasty now guys. I think we should throw grenades into the mix.....Hibernation perhaps...
Several variants to choose from: Fragmentation, Concussion, Percussion, Smoke, Riot control, Incendiary, Stun, Sting, Impact stun, and Anti-tank.... to name a few.
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Hibernation perhaps...
Or tranquilized and relocated somewhere else.:thumbup:
Thanks for the reply Blake... It's good to hear from folks in the thick of it. I'm curious as to where you are from?... I train about 2-3hrs North of Webbwood, toward the Mississagi River PP. I live down South near Point Pelee.
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