The reality of wilderness animal attack and carrying firearms

[George D.]

I would recommend something small and easily concealable.

A single shot pistol that fires .410 shotgun shells or the 45 Long Colt.

Or a small .22 revolver....

Conceal it in a small pouch and your hippy friends will never know the difference.

Most people do feel drawn to the whole "at one with nature" thing, until some wild dog or a copperhead, or a bear tries to kill them.

Wild animals seem to feel no such compulsion to be at one with humans.

 

[Cavalry_Scout]

I would recommend something small and easily concealable.

A single shot pistol that fires .410 shotgun shells or the 45 Long Colt.

Or a small .22 revolver....

Conceal it in a small pouch and your hippy friends will never know the difference.

Most people do feel drawn to the whole "at one with nature" thing, until some wild dog or a copperhead, or a bear tries to kill them.

Wild animals seem to feel no such compulsion to be at one with humans.

I would recommend something small and concealable like a .44mag or .357mag snub nose....a .22 revolver is not going to help if you are set upon by anything bigger than a squirrel as far as 4 legged predators go..

 

[RedbeAR15]

i would recommend something small and easily concealable.

A single shot pistol that fires .410 shotgun shells or the 45 long colt.

Or a small .22 revolver....

Conceal it in a small pouch and your hippy friends will never know the difference.

Most people do feel drawn to the whole "at one with nature" thing, until some wild dog or a copperhead, or a bear tries to kill them.

Wild animals seem to feel no such compulsion to be at one with humans.

lol

 

[Mentor]

The (mis)characterization of people who do not carry firearms in the woods as naive 'at one with nature' hippies with less outdoors experience than our gun-carrying brethren is simply inaccurate.

Loads of folks with years of experience of the bush have commented on this thread. Some carry, some don't. The one's who don't are no less aware, knowledgeable, or responsible than those who do, and vice-versa.

I'm detecting the scent of bravado.

- Mike

 

[blake g49]

Or tranquilized and relocated somewhere else.:thumbup:

Thanks for the reply Blake... It's good to hear from folks in the thick of it. I'm curious as to where you are from?... I train about 2-3hrs North of Webbwood, toward the Mississagi River PP. I live down South near Point Pelee.

When you hit Webbwood, just run another 2.5 hrs further west - ri where all the Great Lakes come together. I've been thru Pt Pelee - very nice area...

I've spent a lot of time fishing north of Webbwood/Massey area years ago. Also a great area.:thumbup:


blake

 

[steelheadr]

The only time I've even held a firearm was twice in the Navy when I was required to. While I respect your right to carry, please wear them in plain sight or just announce that you are carrying so I can choose to walk the other way.

Thank you,
Jay

 

[RedbeAR15]

The only time I've even held a firearm was twice in the Navy when I was required to. While I respect your right to carry, please wear them in plain sight or just announce that you are carrying so I can choose to walk the other way.

Thank you,
Jay

Don't worry - they probably won't let you get that close

 

[Rick Marchand]

Most people do feel drawn to the whole "at one with nature" thing, until some wild dog or a copperhead, or a bear tries to kill them.

Wild animals seem to feel no such compulsion to be at one with humans.

Perhaps not... I don't blame them. You rarely hear of bears killing eachother or attacking without some understandable reason. It happens but it's not the norm. The skunk, the wolverine/badger, porcupine can fair well against the toughest bears... none of them have leathal weapons (well maybe the wolverine) Wolves and bear compete for food and often times get into scuffles without fatality. Why kill when you can deter? To me, that is a rational line of thought.

I'm no hippy... I have a healthy respect for nature and for life in general. I don't want to die anymore than the wild animal that takes interest in me or my companions.

From what I have read (Blake has inspired me to look further) a non-lethal deterent has had a higher success rate than using a firearm. Many of the bear/cat attack recounts state that in most instances, they didn't have time to react prior to the animal being on top of them. I'd much rather share the pepper spray than get a bad shot and piss the bear off. I was pepper sprayed back in the mid 90's with self defence type OC. We were teaching women's self defence in collaboration with the police dept. .... I have a good idea what it feels like, but have never experienced bear grade OC.......... don't think I want to.... don't want to be mauled, either.

 

[teacher]

While I respect your right to carry, please wear them in plain sight or just announce that you are carrying so I can choose to walk the other way.

Are you serious???

You suggest that if carrying concealed, the carrier should announce to everyone they meet they are carrying? Am I understanding you correctly?

 

[tomcrx]

sounds like a mindset issue.

Yes..I feel it is a good one. I have have backpacked and climbed for most of 5 decades. Sometimes for months at a stretch in various countries. Although I may not be Grizzly Adams, I feel I could handle most wilderness situations well. I have learned in my years of dealing with many adverse events in the outdoors, from animals to injury, that the most important thing you carry is your head. Never stop thinking and making decisions, that's it. That is the difference between surviving and not.

sounds like you view guns as good for target shooting or hunting,, but don;'t want to be bothered with carrying something sor self defense.

True..my dad and uncles were LEO's and they never carried when they did not have too. Just feel it is not needed and do not fear the world and the people in it. Personal choice is all. I am not asking anyone not to carry

i don't know where you are in NM, but Albuquerque just had a workplace shooting. i know a gou from another forum who's wife sat across the aisle from the woman who was killed. if she hadn't been laid off and thus not at work she might have had a ringside seat for the shooting or been a victim herself.

I am aware off it. Some see it as justification for carrying a gun and some see is it as the cause. Who knows. The argument for both has been raging for years and one I do not participate in.

personally i'm at a loss as to why someone who will jump thru the hoops to get their CCW would NOT carry daily.

Personal rights and there is not a lot of hoop jumping involved. A class and qualification? I do not have to think like you to support gun ownership.

if it's "too heavy" get a lighter gun. if you work in a NPE, get a better holster, change your wardrobe or perhaps a *slightly* smaller gun. but unless you work someplace with metal detectors i just don't get it.

I just do not want to carry. Most employers place clauses in contracts or job descriptions forbidding carry anyway.

 

[InfidelShootist]

The only time I've even held a firearm was twice in the Navy when I was required to. While I respect your right to carry, please wear them in plain sight or just announce that you are carrying so I can choose to walk the other way.

Thank you,
Jay

While I respect your first amendment right to say and think stupid things.
You should wear a sign and post one in front of your house posting your bigoted views of gun-owners. That way, none of us risk our lives for someone who would spit in our faces if he had the balls. Thank you.

 

[Battle Creek Knives]

No, you are not a weeny for clinging to your firearms.

Yes, I am a gun owner for most of my 69 years, a N.R.A. life member since 1968, and I shoot at least once a week, if not twice, now that I'm retired.

Yes, I would buy a small concealable piece if it makes life easier. I do not belive going about the wilderness unarmed. It's not the animals I worry about, but the people. In a lifetime of backpacking, canoe camping in remote spots, I've never had a problem with an animal. But twice I've had a problem with people who were not there for the love of nature. Both times a small concealed handgun making an apearence made the situation go away.

Dan, always go with your gut feelings.

Nicely said and I couldn't agree more. I just sold my s&w 686 357mag last year, I couldn't kick my self harder, excellent woods gun though on the heavy side with a 6" barrel.. I guess like Jackknife even a concealable 'small' gun would be better then nothing, if you were attacked by an animal I think the blast alone is enough to scare them off, and simply brandishing the weapon to a human would do the same..

Gut instincts..

Rob

 

[CUTS LIKE A KRIS]

I just got home from a week in the mountains (pics forthcoming this weekend sometime). My wife was about 30 feet away from a 2-3 year old grizzly in our campsite one of the days. She was not afraid, just cautious and both went their ways and remained unharmed. After this I asked the owner, who is a close family friend and as much "at one" in the wilds as anybody I have seen about his carry wishes. This man spends days at a time alone in the mountains, and only carries when hunting elk or deer. I asked if he would carry a handgun at all times if legal and he gave a flat out "no". He sees no need to be armed at all times, even though he has seen 5 different bears in one day on the mountains (both black and Grizz), was "scolded" by a cougar for following too close to her den while hunting, and in general is a prime target to go missing if any animal wants to attack. His thoughts are that he is aware enough of his surroundings and gives nature the respect it deserves, and this has kept him alive for the last almost 60 years in the bush- from the Yukon to Alberta through most of BC. He carries a pair of Old Hickory butcher knives, maybe a fishing rod or metal detector and a tent/sleeping bag/axe combo with him on his multi day treks and along with food does not see why people are so encumbered with "stuff" when the head out.

These conversations have not changed my opinions on what I will carry, nor how I feel that others should carry what makes them comfortable, but it was nice discussing the topic with somebody that lives on the land and has much more experience than most other people that I have met, who constantly goes out around dangerous animals and does not feel the need for firearm protection. He is a hippy at heart, but not a tree-hugger, as he has lived enough to know nature is a bitch, and still feels comfortable enough to only be prepared to kill during hunting season.

 

[C111]

I am an LEO firearms instructor and carry pretty much all the time. I also carry a knife and small flashlight at all times. I have a 44 mag that I carry when I'm at the cabin in WV. I carry a glock 23 every day. If back packing or hiking I usually carry a compact 9mm or 380 in an inconspicuous pouch on the belt of my pack/camelback. I appreciate that not everyone is comfortable with firearms and that everyone does not feel a need to carry. I carry not only to protect myself, but my family/companions who either cannot or will not carry. I prefer to have one and not need it than to need one and not have it. To each his own.

 

[ch46]

I gona start this of with a addmition, im a really logical guy, normaly.

However when it comes to bear, cougar, and people attacks my logical nature rapidly goes down the toilet. I find myself carrying a .357 ontop of my survival supplies knife,tomahawk,firestarter, etc... and if I ever run into anyone in the woods they look at my like im a backwoods freak. Which is Hilarios because one of the resaons for the firearm is movies like deliverance and the reality of Humboldt Countys massive meth problem in the backwoods. Yet, to them I apear to be the country bumkin.

Basically I know the odds of bear, mountain lion, and people attacks yet Regardles of the 99.8% safty I still want to carry. Using your wits you avoid any danger. Bear bangers and bear spay are all you need for black bear. A long knife and my hiking staff should take care of Mountain lions. People are easy to avoid, we tend to be loud and destructive to the enviroment. Pot patches can be avoided easly by smell. The reality of having awarness and knowlege of your area, leaves me aware of how safe it is.

At this point im aware this is a psychological condition, posibly a runoff from the panic that siezed the country after 9-11. Most of us are aware firearms arent going to stop terorist, however they make people feel better in a situation where we dont have any control of the outcome.

The reason im bringing this up is ive taken to hiking with my wife and some amazing survivalist friends. They have some amazing wild plant recognition, primitive tool making and wild food gathering skills. However there, "one with nature" methods, clash with firearms, and my wife never really liked my guns. I really enjoy the sharring of knowlege and im impresed by people who could really live forever in a primitive enviroment. Ive even considered buying a 340pc that I can conceal but that just seems kind of pathetic, like hiding my dirtly little secret.

HERES THE QUESTION TO OTHER FORUMITES. Am I a weine for clinging illogicaly to my firearm. Before anwsering please state if you own guns or not,
since this will heavly influnce your replie.

I own firearms.
I figure anywhere I can go so can the less savory amongst our species. I prefer to have some say in what occurs in my immediate environment.
All Gods critters have built-in blades, except us. We are gifted with the ability to create tools which we then use to enhance our chances of survival. The firearm is another tool in the kit.
The desire to posess firearms is not illogical. Just the opposite, IMO.

 

[Cavalry_Scout]

The only time I've even held a firearm was twice in the Navy when I was required to. While I respect your right to carry, please wear them in plain sight or just announce that you are carrying so I can choose to walk the other way.

Thank you,
Jay

uh-huh :jerkit:...

....you would be shocked/surprised if you knew just who you encountered on a daily basis carried a firearm....

 

[Cavalry_Scout]

Yes..I feel it is a good one. I have have backpacked and climbed for most of 5 decades. Sometimes for months at a stretch in various countries. Although I may not be Grizzly Adams, I feel I could handle most wilderness situations well. I have learned in my years of dealing with many adverse events in the outdoors, from animals to injury, that the most important thing you carry is your head. Never stop thinking and making decisions, that's it. That is the difference between surviving and not.



True..my dad and uncles were LEO's and they never carried when they did not have too. Just feel it is not needed and do not fear the world and the people in it. Personal choice is all. I am not asking anyone not to carry

what time period? I don't know of a single LEO that doesn't carry when off duty...I certainly did....hell, many departments now have policy requiring officers to be armed

I am aware off it. Some see it as justification for carrying a gun and some see is it as the cause. Who knows. The argument for both has been raging for years and one I do not participate in.

It's certainly one that will never see an end...

Personal rights and there is not a lot of hoop jumping involved. A class and qualification? I do not have to think like you to support gun ownership.



I just do not want to carry. Most employers place clauses in contracts or job descriptions forbidding carry anyway. ..and I will continue to ignore them until they are enforced by legal statute..

drew.

 

[redpoint]

First of all, I'm not anti-gun, but I do think that allowing people to carry necessitates others to carry i.e. we've fabricated the need/desire. While hiking in the High Sierras a few weeks back, all I heard all night long was gun fire [I was in a National Forest], it's unnerving and it totally ruined my experience. Target practice should occur in a controlled environment, not in a wilderness area.

I spend a lot of time deep in the backcountry and on mountains etc. [all over the US, Canada, and abroad] and I've never had a problem with other humans. The only time I've had 'questionable' encounters with humans, it hasn't been deep in the backcountry, it's been near vehicular accessed wilderness areas [accessible by cars, ATVs etc]. Adjacent to a logging road or other vehicular access points is where I feel the most unrest. I downright hate camping adjacent to vehicular accessed areas.

Cougars - assuming, you're not walking around with your gun drawn, you're not going to know when a cougar attacks, it's going to be swift, stealthy, and powerful. 250 lbs of killing machine is going to be all over you like a fat kid on a smartie.

Black Bears - sure, a gun would be nice, but is it necessary, I don't know. I just had several encounters with black bears in Cali three weeks ago ... they were pretty skittish. Black bears will usually stay well clear of humans.

Grizzly Bears - if you spent a lot of time in Grizzly territory, I can see wanting a firearm that's immediately accessible. Keep in mind there have been several grizzly attacks over the years where armed humans still lost their lives.

African plains, polar bear areas - damn straight I want a firearm.

Guns are not toys, we all know that, but damn, some people sure treat them as such. Being a gun enthusiast is fine, I get it, but you have to be a mature, sane and responsible person to own/carry one [unfortunately there are MANY who do not fit that description]. People on BF seem to be pretty rational when it comes to this issue. Taking a human life is serious business and making that ultimate decision will have huge implications on your life [and theirs]. If you decide to carry, you have to use the most impeccable judgement.

Would I carry, at this point no, not unless I was spending a lot of time in serious grizzly or polar bear country. Besides, where I live, you just can't walk around with a concealed weapon.

 

[LMT66]

Can the OP consider locking this thread? Please?

 

[tomcrx]

While hiking in the High Sierras a few weeks back, all I heard all night long was gun fire [I was in a National Forest], it's unnerving and it totally ruined my experience. Target practice should occur in a controlled environment, not in a wilderness area.

Truth. It is unnerving when you are hiking and somebody just starts plinking away. Your first thought is do they know I am there? Do they care? I have heard "Sorry mister I did not know anyone was back there?" a few times in my life.

I spend a lot of time deep in the backcountry and on mountains etc. [all over the US, Canada, and abroad] and I've never had a problem with other humans. The only time I've had 'questionable' encounters with humans, it hasn't been deep in the backcountry, it's been near vehicular accessed wilderness areas [accessible by cars, ATVs etc]. Adjacent to a logging road or other vehicular access points is where I feel the most unrest. I downright hate camping adjacent to vehicular accessed areas.

Feel you pain on that one too. Access seems to draw the crazies. Make new fire scars when pits are available. Litter, leave food waste that attracts bears and human waste, never understood that one. Foul springs, scar trees, graffitti and degrade shelters. They seem to think that 1/2 mile from a road and their car is backcountry. That gives them permission to shoot in any direction as long as it's not back at the car...Duh

Sometimes I think it would be nice that all roads that support any vehicle would be removed.

but you have to be a mature, sane and responsible person to own/carry one [unfortunately there are MANY who do not fit that description].

Agreed