The role of the collector

[Keith Montgomery]

Whatever good that collectors do on an individual basis,... is not out of responsibility but out of desire.

Very true. My responsibility to the maker is to be straight up with him, and to pay for the knife when it is time to do so. Anything beyond that is done out of a desire to see the custom knife business in general, and the makers I have had good experiences with, flourish.

The makers responsibility to me is to be straight up, to make the knife to the best of his/her ability, and to deliver the knife to me in a timely manner.

What the maker does beyond that is up to him/her. They don't owe it to anyone (except maybe themselves and their families) to be good business people. They don't owe it to collectors to do everything they can to help their knives hold or increase their value in the secondary market. Their responsibility ends with the making and delivering of the best knife they can make.

That doesn't mean that I don't think they should learn to be good business people, or that they shouldn't do as much to promote themselves, their knives and the custom knife business as a whole, because I think they should do all of that. I just don't think they have any responsibility to do so.

 

[Kevin Jones]

Okay, that is an extreme example, but would you turn down the opportunity to buy a 3rd or 4th Gen Henry Bowie? How about a Picasso? Both were allegedly flaming assholes, yet...........

Yes, I would turn them both down as I have zero interest in either or the items they produce.


My position is; why deal with the A-holes of knifemaking, when there are good, responsible and respectable makers out there making great knives who will support, promote and have business practices that will help my knives appreciate in value.

I don't think my collection has suffered by my abiding by this principle. As you have heard me say or write probably a hundred times "it's more than just about the knife".

 

[Kevin Jones]

I feel we are all here for a reason, whether we have one custom knife, or hundreds...and that is because we enjoy going beyond what we can own and be involved in over well made production knives, and get an added kick out of the relationship and outcome of meeting, knowing, and working with custom makers to produce a one-of-a-kind blade to our liking.

Whether we keep it a short time or until we pass from this earth, we have been involved in a process we enjoy, we support, and we promote by taking part. The value of that is the role we play every day at our individual levels.

- Joe

Bravo Joe. You put it very well. :thumbup:

 

[Kevin Jones]

Define character?

To me a maker that takes my order and delivers a product of the highest quality in a timely fashion is chock full of character. We should be in the business of supporting makers who make the best products we like at the best prices, in the best time frames rather than propping up personality cults or popularity contests.

I believe it goes a litte farther than that, especially if you want your collection to appreciate in value.


Thats a nice idea. I guess if you only buy knives from 3-4 makers that is feasible. It's just not realistic for most of us. Besides, I don't feel good about taking too much of someone's time trying to get to know them if I haven't purchased anything.

I don't think makers think of it as a waist of their time. And only collecting six maker's knives has it's advantages over collecting from sixty. Their's a little discussion regarding the topic in the thread below.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showthread.php?t=442207

 

[Tai Goo]

If you are more interested in being brown nosed than you are in knives,… You may not do that well as a knife collector.

 

[Kevin Jones]

If you do not know how to treat your customer you may not do well as a maker.

 

[Tai Goo]

There are plenty of folks out there who will humor you and flatter you,… in order to take your money.

 

[Kevin Jones]

There are plenty of folks out there who will humor you and flatter you,… in order to take your money.

Only speaking for myself of course, in that a maker humoring and flattering me has nothing to with it. It's all about the maker providing me with a knife I want and him presenting and handling himself as a positive and decent person that cares enough about the industry to attend show and promote custom knives, so the knives I have purchased from him go up in value.

Rather than buying from a negative, cantankerous old SOB, that many would not even consider buying his knivers in the secondary market.

As long as I can see the maker is providing the above, they can take my money whether genuine in their actions towards to me or not.

 

[Don Hanson III]

"buying a piece of soul"...but...

When I was tattooing or when I am painting....I AM putting a piece of myself into that work...my time, my concentration, muse, sweat, and care.....trying to make something that matters in some small way.

It is my sincere belief that the makers are giving the same effort in making my knives.....

What do you say about that Don?

I also think that Tai is going to wake up from his stupor at some point and say " I wrote WHAT"?

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson

I agree, Steven.

("buying a piece of soul") I feel Tai is saying, some makers take this too far and try to blow smoke up your ass Please correct me if I'm wrong, Tai.

I put my time, energy, thought, total focus, skill and a little luck into the knife I'm working on, one at the time.

Not sure about my soul but there is a piece of me in every knife I make. If a collector feels, it's just a knife, that's fine with me also

 

[Tai Goo]

Only speaking for myself of course, in that a maker humoring and flattering me has nothing to with it. It's all about the maker providing me with a knife I want and him presenting and handling himself as a positive and decent person that cares enough about the industry to attend show and promote custom knives, so the knives I have purchased from him go up in value.

Rather than buying from a negative, cantankerous old SOB, that many would not even consider buying his knivers in the secondary market.

As long as I can see the maker is providing the above, they can take my money whether genuine in their actions towards to me or not.

Got ya didn't I! lol

 

[Tai Goo]

I agree, Steven.

("buying a piece of soul") I feel Tai is saying, some makers take this too far and try to blow smoke up your ass Please correct me if I'm wrong, Tai.

I put my time, energy, thought, total focus, skill and a little luck into the knife I'm working on, one at the time.

Not sure about my soul but there is a piece of me in every knife I make. If a collector feels, it's just a knife, that's fine with me also

That’s pretty much it Don.

I put myself entirely into the “process”, and since the knives are made entirely by me, they carry a trace of my “vibrations”. The steel is a super sensitive recording medium. It just sucks up vibrations!

But I’m not selling my soul!

This is fun! We get to promote ourselves and custom knives as we speak. We should do it more!

 

[Kevin Jones]

Got ya didn't I! lol

Not sure what you mean by "Got ya".

If you are referring to relationships I have with makers with whom I collect, it's a "win/win" situation for them and I.

They provide me with great knives and continue to work to insure the knives rise in value and I promote them and their knives
and hopefully help them sell and get more for them. As I said, it has nothing to do with humoring and flattery.

 

[Russ Andrews]

The Ancients called it "Spirit in the steel".
I believe it exists in proportion to the dedication
of the smith.

It isn't selling the soul. It's investing ones self
completely it the chosen work.

 

[Les Robertson]

The Ancients called it "Spirit" of anything. Primarily because through the ignorance of things such as science. As such they created "gods" to pray to hoping to increase the quality of whatever they were doing.

600 years ago everyone thought the sun went around the earth.

500 years ago everyone thought the Earth was flat.

400 years ago lack of understanding of physical science could get you branded an burned at the stake as a witch.

100 years ago people were concerned about the earth cooling (about 1/2 a degree) and that an Ice Age was again imminent.

Today...the Earth Temperature going up 1/2 a degree means the earth is melting.

BTW what is the knife making community doing to balance its huge carbon foot print...especially those of you who forge.

The only mysticism involved in custom knife making today is that which the maker makes up as a marketing tool for their work.

WWG

 

[Tai Goo]

Not sure what you mean by "Got ya".

If you are referring to relationships I have with makers with whom I collect, it's a "win/win" situation for them and I.

They provide me with great knives and continue to work to insure the knives rise in value and I promote them and their knives
and hopefully help them sell and get more for them. As I said, it has nothing to do with humoring and flattery.

O.K.
You win!

You obviously know a lot more about it than I do and are a much better person too.

 

[Russ Andrews]

The "science" of centurys past, which is ridiculed today, was
the best they had then.
What of today's best "science" will be similarly discarded by
future generations...?

BTW....Global cooling scare...more like 1970.

 

[Don Hanson III]

Science and reality don't always go hand in hand

There is still a lot the scientist do not really understand.

 

[Kevin Jones]

O.K.
You win!

You obviously know a lot more about it than I do and are a much better person too.

No Tai, not implying either at all. I don't even know you, and all I know of your knives is that they do well on the primary and secondary markets.

I know what works for me personally, and makers I support seem to be genuinely appreciative for what I do for them in buying and promoting them and their work.

You may be right, their may be makers out there that just blow smoke, humor and flatter collectors to take their money, but I hope not, and I'm quite sure I don't deal with them.

 

[Tai Goo]

Science and reality don't always go hand in hand

There is still a lot the scientist do not really understand.

That's right Don, but they are slowly learning...

First they need to make sure they have ALL the facts, and then use their "intuition" to interpret the facts correctly.

HADO:
If it works with water,... why not steel?
https://www.hado.net/hado/index.php

 

[rnrossi]

The Ancients called it "Spirit" of anything. Primarily because through the ignorance of things such as science.
WWG

Unfortunately, our ignorance begins again at the edge of our science.
What is beyond the edge of the expanding Universe? How can an electron be measured as a particle and be defined as a wave probability?

Beyond Newtonian physics, science still has a long way to go.
Actually, science in the later part of the 20th century began to take a different view of some of the ancient beliefs.

What we perceive as solid to our senses, is actually the separation between different wave patterns; so "vibration" may be a more accurate description.

"Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former."
Albert Einstein