The role of the collector

"A collector lusts after the object, not the knifemaker." brownshoe

Let's hope! :D
 
WoodWorkGhost said:
Hi Tai,

You wrote:

"I select the type of business people I want to do business with and then give them the best possible service I can."

So which is it? Are you doing business with collectors or businessmen?

Regarding your deposit. If you are late delivering the knife does the businessman get their deposit back?

After all isn't their time worth something? After all they are businessmen just like you.

I know you don't give the money back, I was just having some fun.

BTW, for what it is worth to those reading this:

You Never Give a Maker a Deposit except for three circumstances.

1) The deposit is to pay for materials not normally associated with the knife or materials that have an up charge. Such as Ivory.

2) You as the collector lack the discipline to save the money and would rather have some of it paid off before the knife is done.

3) You are asking the maker to build a knife that is so butt ugly that they will never ever be able to sell it...expect to pay at least 50% deposit on that one.

NEVER EVER PAY A MAKER BEFORE THE KNIFE IS DONE....NEVER! Why? Read the Good Bad and the Ugly!

In lieu of a deposit sign an agreement. That you will pay x maker x amount of money. The knife is due on x day of x month. You can agree to the amount of leeway time each will give the other.

Example, maker x contacts collector y on the day the knife is to be done. If within the agreed time, say 15 days you have not sent the maker the payment....Maker sells the knife to someone else.

The reverse will be true as well. If you have gone 15 days passed the agreed upon delivery date and the knife is not ready. The collector can cancel the order.

This way there is no confusion as to when the knife will be done and what will happen if the date goes passed the agreed upon extra time.

I once had a maker who was 8 weeks late with a knife (swore to me the week before it was due I would have it. Then turned out a friend of his showed up and they had to go fishing...etc.). I sent him the payment 8 weeks late!

While he didn't think it was any big deal to deliver the knife 8 weeks late. The way he yelled and carried on you would have thought I had killed one of his relatives. I had to remind him that 8 weeks really can't be that big of a deal to him since he was 8 weeks late.


All that being said, most makers will do their best to have the knife done when it is supposed to be.

WWG
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If I'm not sure what the role of the collector is,... I'm doing business with business people. :)
 
WWG, If a "collector" doesn't do well in a transaction, it is often because "he hasn't done his homework". Business references from makers shouldn't be that hard to get.
 
brownshoe said:
Sounds to me that Mr. Khaii99 is more of a collector of knifemakers than knives. If you don't want to deal personally with the man, you can still buy one in the aftermarket.

If you make me a great knife and later get arrested for child abuse, I'll still like the knife. Any afficiando of any art
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or perhaps that to be truely happy with his collection he ( like many of us ) also want to have pride in what we own.

If I can't have pride in it and have pride in knowing who made it , I won't buy it.

Kevin Jones said:
Its getting to the point where nothing you write surprises me, no matter how ridicules. :confused:
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I agree 100 % on that...
 
take a look at any other industry , people dont like what a business or corp does or their political stance or ethics , they dont buy their product or boycott them.

Certainly not everyone puts ethics , personality , or reputation on equal ground with the quality of the product but I would bet most agree they do , in one way or another .

Not saying one way is right or one is wrong , but people do buy the company ( or knifemaker in this case ) as much as the product , some just might not be willing to admit it.

Think to yourself , have you never went to a movie because regardless of how good it was you just didnt like the actors political views , or because in real life they are an a$$ , or didnt buy a product because it wasnt from USA even though the product was great , or didnt buy a product due to bad business practices ?

Investors looking for a return may be willing to overlook things vs someone who is collecting for the love of knives.
 
I won't own a knife from a maker I don't care for.
To me, it's the knife/maker combination that makes the piece interesting.

And as it's important to me in being able to resale for profit, the maker's business and marketing practices and how he/she handles themselves also enters the equation.

Just as I won't invest in a company where I don't care for upper management or business principles or direction.
 
I won't own a knife from a maker I don't care for.
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Meeting someone at a show or talking to them on the phone is a tough way to judge character.

Ordering a knife, agreeing on a design and price and then seeing how the deal eventually transpires is how I like to pick makers for repeat business. A business transaction, good or bad, is ultimately the best judge of a makers character.

There are makers I really like to hang out with but that doesn't mean I will ever order a knife from them again or ever.
 
If you think you are buying a piece of a person, or a "piece of his soul", in a knife business transaction,... there is the chance you are being played for a fool. :D
 
Anthony Lombardo said:
Meeting someone at a show or talking to them on the phone is a tough way to judge character.

Ordering a knife, agreeing on a design and price and then seeing how the deal eventually transpires is how I like to pick makers for repeat business. A business transaction, good or bad, is ultimately the best judge of a makers character.

There are makers I really like to hang out with but that doesn't mean I will ever order a knife from them again or ever.
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True Anthony, but I like getting to know the maker before the transaction.

Some people are good judges of character and can accurately sum-up an individual within just one brief encounter, others never seem to be successful at this.

The best business people are most always good at judging character.

It's pretty amazing how much you can learn about a maker or collector, for that matter, just by observing their post. ;)

Tai Goo said:
If you think you are buying a piece of a person, or a "piece of his soul", in a knife business transaction,... there is the chance you are being played for a fool. :D
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Tia, you seem to be very cynical in your post and in requiring deposits and such.

I don't know about the "buying a piece of the person, or piece of his soul" bologna, that's a little over dramatic IMO. However I like dealing with someone I like and I feel that will look after my best interest rather than some SOB that's only looking out for themselves.
 
"buying a piece of soul"...but...

When I was tattooing or when I am painting....I AM putting a piece of myself into that work...my time, my concentration, muse, sweat, and care.....trying to make something that matters in some small way.

It is my sincere belief that the makers are giving the same effort in making my knives.....

What do you say about that Don?

I also think that Tai is going to wake up from his stupor at some point and say " I wrote WHAT"?:D :D

Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
I feel we are all here for a reason, whether we have one custom knife, or hundreds...and that is because we enjoy going beyond what we can own and be involved in over well made production knives, and get an added kick out of the relationship and outcome of meeting, knowing, and working with custom makers to produce a one-of-a-kind blade to our liking.

Whether we keep it a short time or until we pass from this earth, we have been involved in a process we enjoy, we support, and we promote by taking part. The value of that is the role we play every day at our individual levels.

- Joe
 
Tai Goo said:
No,… I’m not for sale, just my knives. :D
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I have heard rumour that Angelina Jolie does a bit of knife collecting, so, in theory, I COULD be for sale if the right set of circumstances arose:D
 
The best business people are most always good at judging character.
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Define character?

To me a maker that takes my order and delivers a product of the highest quality in a timely fashion is chock full of character. We should be in the business of supporting makers who make the best products we like at the best prices, in the best time frames rather than propping up personality cults or popularity contests.
True Anthony, but I like getting to know the maker before the transaction.
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Thats a nice idea. I guess if you only buy knives from 3-4 makers that is feasible. It's just not realistic for most of us. Beside's, I don't feel good about taking too much of someone's time trying to get to know them if I haven't purchased anything.

I used to like to buy my insurance from a guy in town instead of the internet, my flowers from the local florist, and my cars from local family owned dealers. It was after I got better service and better prices from the "big, nameless" companies that I finally switched. I guess I am results oriented.

I know of a gentleman who is an artist of minor note. He makes abstract, modern geometric art. He gets $5,000-$50,000 per piece. They take him about a week per piece to make. They are absolutely foolish pieces of trash. In fact, he was a high school art teacher before he started making his "art". He has gallery showings all over the east coast. He has little formal training.

BUT-he is extremely charismatic, young, attractive, absolutely honorable and one of those people who make you feel like they have known you for years. He has become successful by using his face and personality to sell his product at the gallery, in adverts and face to face with clients who are usually monied divorcees, homemakers, or homosexuals.

His customers buy his product because they feel like they are buying HIM. The art is secondary. Its an honest living I guess even though the art will certainly be worthless in future years because it has little merit without HIM.
 
Kevin Jones said:
Its getting to the point where nothing you write surprises me, no matter how ridicules. :confused:
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Okay, that is an extreme example, but would you turn down the opportunity to buy a 3rd or 4th Gen Henry Bowie? How about a Picasso? Both were allegedly flaming assholes, yet...........:D
 
Kohai999 said:
Not that it is NOT of interest....but what is the point?

Dead Shark=Dead Shark=Art, by someones' name, that some overinflated douche was stupid enough to drop $$ on. No matter what they call it, it is still a dead shark.

Knife=Knife.......we collect those...mostly made of steel..they don't require a jar of formaldahyde to stay fresh and clean.:D

Some people call them art, some craft....maize....you call it corn......a knife is a knife.

Best Regards,


STeven Garsson, knife collector....patron of exotic dancers worldwide
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Perhaps he should have put the shark in a jar of urine with a cruxifix and made it more controversial:D I love self agrandizement and veiled comtempt for the audience as art, don't you?..lol However, I will say this and I am actually not being fascetious. The diamond encrusted skull sounds like it might have a chance of being interesting. Weird, but interesting.
 
Okay, that is an extreme example, but would you turn down the opportunity to buy a 3rd or 4th Gen Henry Bowie?
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Perfect example. A great Henry bowie is my "Holy Grail". I could care less that he was a scoundrel. Its his contribution to the custom knife that matters the most to me. Without him, everything would still be done on a buffing wheel!:barf:
 
Of the 70 or so makers that I have knives from, I have not had a friendship, acquaintance or meeting with 20 of those makers.

The knives that I care for most are from those that I hold in high esteem from a professional level, OR personal level.

Knives from Phillip Baldwin, Kit Carson, Kevin Cashen, Rod Chappel, Bob Crowder, Matt Diskin, Don Fogg, Burt Foster, Bob Lum, R.J. Martin, Al Pendray......

Rod Chappel's name is anathema to many, he did mess with my program, but love having his knives, because it absolutely reminds me that you can be GREAT at one thing, and suck at just about everything else.

Phil Baldwin and Don Fogg have taught me so much about knives over the years by doing and showing that it is a real gift to have work from them.

You know, with the EXCEPTION of Rod....the makers mentioned above DO have great character, and are men of note....as individuals, as well as makers.

These are just some examples, I am sure that you all have your own....

If the price was right on the Henry Bowie, I would buy it....Have a close friend with two superb ivory handled examples, and covet neither one...just does not give me the warm fuzzies...


Best Regards,

STeven Garsson
 
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