The Rule of Fours

Esav Benyamin said:
The sad thing about the truly clueless is that they don't panic. They don't know they're in trouble till the situation is really not good.
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Yes, that is true, and truly sad. Those folks will never stop and think about things before hand, because they don't think anything will ever affect them.

You can't fix stupid, unfortunately.
 
dawsonbob said:
Yes, that is true, and truly sad. Those folks will never stop and think about things before hand, because they don't think anything will ever affect them.

You can't fix stupid, unfortunately.
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Yeah, but it is a slippery slope. Kind of like defining the exact instant you know you are lost. There is a time you start to suspect you are lost, there is a bunch of denile and attempt to get back on track and at some point there is a period where you say, dang it, I'm lost. At that point you should sit your butt down in think about your priorities.

I think the rule of three really helps here. As described above, the rules are talking about physiological needs not situation needs. You list the physiological need priorities and figure out where you sit in terms of your situation.

Probably rule 0 is figure it out that you aren't in your comfort zone. Sit your butt down and think of a plan. Most people get into trouble because they keep pushing through and deny a problem exists.
 
Pritch, and others, exactly! I sincerely did not mean to start a pissing contest about minutes. My goal was to point out the priorities, IMO, required for long term survival. Shelter first, water second, then food. After that, plan how in hell are you going to survive long term? IMHO, the mountains and deserts of the west are NOT the ideal places for long term survival. There are no longer herds of buffalo, elk, etc., for 'convenient' meat. Therefore, move south! IMO, milder (southern) winters equate to fewer calories required to maintain body heat and survival. Also, southern forests and swamps with more varied animal and plant life equate to less foraging to survive. Hey, one + one equals two. No? Those survivors along the seaboard and in relatively resource rich southern forests/plains/croplands require less energy expenditure to survive which is a really big plus.

As for the 'deep divers' who go underwater for many minutes, I was part of that fraternity when ii began in the early 50s. You train like hell and also take in copious amounts of pure oxygen before going down. Been there, done that, and proved what? Exactly nothing! When you're super trained or souped up on oxygen you can dive longer than normal. So what? This has nothing to do with a survival situation.

My point was merely trying to point out the potential hazards of getting 'stuck' on the wrong priorities. Sorry if I POed some of you. I'll stop posting to this thread.
 
G'day Dude

Bushman5 said:
....by the way.......show me some evidence as to your skills.......what makes you so **** hot in the woods? why should the rest of us listen to YOU??
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This is a worry.

After nearly a year of contributing to this forum, you are not aware of the verification (both pictures & videos) I have already provided?

Suggests to me that you either haven't been paying attention or can't remember. IMO, hardly attributes that are desirable when it comes to wilderness & survival skills :confused:

When I get back from travelling to my Aunties 80th Birthday party, I'll send you a PT with direct links to the posts I have put up on the net since I got a camera 5 years ago :D

Since a fair few of these are on another forum, it is probably more appropriate to do this via a PT :thumbup:

If however, the moderators don't have a problem with me providing these in the open forum, I'll be happy to provide them for all to see.

Till then .....




Mick
 
After nearly a year of contributing to this forum, you are not aware of the verification (both pictures & videos) I have already provided?
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Nowhere on Bladeforums is anyone required to prove their qualifications.
Good sense and a friendly attitude are much better validation.
 
I seem to remember Tom Brown saying once that whenever he got in trouble in the wild it was due to his not adhering to his priorities. I think his in order of precedence is: Shelter, water, food, and fire.
Also, wasnt there a general rule for loss of blood? Does it fit this rule or not?
 
Shelter, water, food, and fire.
Also, wasnt there a general rule for loss of blood? Does it fit this rule or not?
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Shelter, water, food, and fire are the sort of priorities for ordinary life.
Once things start going wrong, that's a whole other story.
 
Where would wayfinding/navigation fall into the rule of 3s/4s?

In other words, assuming you're breathing and reasonably clothed, aren't there times where you would be better served trying to figure out where you are & how to get back to civilization than searching several hours for water?
 
Old CW4 said:
Pritch, and others, exactly! I sincerely did not mean to start a pissing contest about minutes. My goal was to point out the priorities, IMO, required for long term survival. Shelter first, water second, then food. My point was merely trying to point out the potential hazards of getting 'stuck' on the wrong priorities. Sorry if I POed some of you. I'll stop posting to this thread.
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Old CW4, you did not start a pissing contest. You posted some information that can be quite useful in a survival situation. In other words, more posts like yours, is what we need in this forum.

You need to apologize to no one.

Doc
 
chopchop said:
Where would wayfinding/navigation fall into the rule of 3s/4s?

In other words, assuming you're breathing and reasonably clothed, aren't there times where you would be better served trying to figure out where you are & how to get back to civilization than searching several hours for water?
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That's what I was talking about just before.

Esav Benyamin said:
Shelter, water, food, and fire are the sort of priorities for ordinary life.
Once things start going wrong, that's a whole other story.
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The rule of 3 (or 4) is your personal status, not really something to worry about when problems arise but something to plan for before you start out, something you need to deal with under any conditions, that you tailor to your specific circumstances.
 
4 days without water, 10 days without food, shelter as soon as possible. (Close to water and food if at all possible)

This is what I was taught.

Cant go much more than 2 days without sleep either...
 
dawsonbob said:
...Some of the best medical and survival researchers in the world work for the US Government, and they came up with the rule of 4's. Until someone proves them wrong, I'm sticking with their version...
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I always heard it as 2-3s. The big limiter on taking it out to 4 is the air thing. Maybe the SF guys that are conditioned a 4 minute is OK.
The average person does not tolerate out to 4 minutes without air.... maybe 3, probably a general rule of 2. Plenty of free divers go longer. But, on average, I bet most are a no go on 4 minutes without air.
 
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Esav Benyamin said:
The rule of 3 (or 4) is your personal status, not really something to worry about when problems arise but something to plan for before you start out, something you need to deal with under any conditions, that you tailor to your specific circumstances.
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Thinking of it as personal status makes sense to me. If I keep it simple, I'm more likely to remember

blood/breath seconds/minutes
shelter hours
water days
food weeks

and find a way out or signal for help whenever/however you can.
 
Bushman5 said:
btw Nemomaz, whats your resume of instruction? what makes you an expert?
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Nunya. Take it or leave it. It matters not to me.

Besides, I sent you to Ron Hood, and his resume is public knowledge. Like I said, argue with him.

I'd say argue with Nick Rowe, but he's not able to argue much these days.
 
chopchop said:
Thinking of it as personal status makes sense to me. If I keep it simple, I'm more likely to remember

blood/breath seconds/minutes
shelter hours
water days
food weeks

and find a way out or signal for help whenever/however you can.
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That makes sense too.

Yet still people get it wrong. People are so addicted to their comfort food.
 
this is a Public Apology to both Southern Cross & Nemoaz. I have been rude, aggressive, and otherwise plain ol arseholeish towards both of you and the rest of wss. I have strong opinions about survival, i do not follow mainstream methods, and i tend to be radically different in both my thoughts and physical methods of survival and hiking.

Far too often we get locked into rules and protocols, I am not one to follow mainstream rules and protocols...and this often leads me into trouble.

Sorry for the harsh combative tone.
 
I am currently in Far West Texas, I don't think you could make it two days in the middle of August in the desert if say you got lost and you were dry to begin with. So I think these rules are a general guide but must be adjusted for your location and situtation.


RickJ
 
Bushman5 said:
this rule of 3 hours without shelter then your dead is complete and utter BS. so is the 3 - 4 minutes without air (tell that the freedivers in the pacific who dive for 6 - 9 minutes with a single breath of air)

I would really like to know who comes up with this crap. I swear they base the calculations on weak urban cubicle dwellers who never venture outside.

mental masturbation sums it up perfectly.

I should be dead right now, for i left my home (shelter) for 5 hours today. Every day i go without shelter for 6 - 10 hours, sometimes overnight!

no this rant is NOT directed at the OP of this thread. its just a statement in general
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I agree, 100%. I have personally held my breath longer than 3 minutes, and have been submerged for as long on a seperate occasion as well. Mental masturbation sums it up well, something that spewed forth from a survival theorist, not a survivalist, in a publication to make money. It's not a matter of how long a human is SUPPOSED to survive while denied necessities, but instead how long one CAN survive while denied necessities. Men have lived much longer than these "rules of thumb" under extreme circumstances, not just sitting on a stump in the woods. It's called a will to survive folks, and you can't get one by reading survival theory and rules of thumb from Borders books.
 
Bushman, accepted. I'm assholeish all the time. I'll just rub some dirt in it and keep going. You do the same, Brother Hoodlum.
 
koyote said:
Environment can make a huge difference.

I remember back in 80s, one of our desert survival classes had a list of things you had to prioritze. This was classic "what's in your car after the wreck in the middle of the desert"

The top three items, in order, from the list-

Mirror
London Fog Trenchcoat
Shovel.

The gallon of water was number 4.

Any guesses why?
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I didn't see this answered already so... Pick me! My first thought was that (if the LFT is clear) it's for making a water condensation collection pit; however, that would require a collection container which isn't on the list.

So, my real guess is that the mirror is for signaling and the shovel is to dig a pit (covered by the LFT) to stay in during the hottest parts of the day?
 
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