the "ultralight" crowd...

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Look at the OP in context, guys. He's talking about stupid people.
We aren't talking about guys that take a SAK instead of a Buck 110. We're talking guys that take the scales off their SAK because the weigh too much, or bring an Exacto blade in lieu of a knife. :rolleyes:

Or guys who their first aid kit consists of a pad of moleskin and two Band-Aids.

I just use the term minimalist to cover people who take WHAT THEY NEED, no more and no less. Because most people I actually see, who call themselves "ultralighters" are exactly the people for whom it IS a game, and a sort of eliteist club to see who can carry the least.

I do have a question for those that want to call themselves ultralighters:
When I carry something into the woods that you insist isn't needed, why do you get angry when I refuse to let you borrow it?
 
Watch the personal attacks guys. Subtle as they may be.
 
I think too its important to realize that some people that go extreme ultralight are simply going out on a dayhike. Then there are others who go multidays too......
 
Bushman5 said:
I think too its important to realize that some people that go extreme ultralight are simply going out on a dayhike. Then there are others who go multidays too......
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Yes there are. Some of them are honest to goodness hikers who truly enjoy the outdoors. There are some though, that really don't hike at all. For them, it's all about collecting expensive equipment that they don't even use, then bragging about how light it is. I don't understand that. My equipment may be cheap junk (and heavy, too), but it goes out with me.
 
My possibles bag, with tinder, a couple firesteels, flint and steel, otter box, couple of biners, fatwood, SAK, Fenix P2D, small fixed blade, bandaids, aspirin...blah blah blah, weighs 3 1/2 lbs alone. Now, 13 ounces alone is the weight of the bag, but it is far from an altoids tin can. Nothing in it is high tech, but it also goes with me and I trust it. :D

Hey, I am a machinist...albeit a laid off one...and I am all about technology. If I had the money for a GPS, I would carry that too. better add 10 ounces to that possibles pouch. LOL! :D
 
One thing that everyone should do, Ultra lite or not, it is brainless to go out with untested equipment. Some Ultra lite stuff doesn't work, some heavy stuff doesn't work either.

I take very little food on most camping trips unless there is no game and fish in the area, I am used to finding most of my food on the go. I don't drink alcohol so no need for that. I do take some water if I am going to a less familiar area. I like plenty of water.

If the wife and I are going camping it is almost always to fish and if it is a campground, then we take food to fix with fish. Many times there are turkey eggs where we go.
 
udtjim said:
Many times there are turkey eggs where we go.
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Well that brings up one of the major weight issues involved in being outside doesn't it? Food weight is probably one of the greatest difficulties one has to deal with. I theorize that there is a law of diminishing returns involved there that no one can escape. The more you carry, the more need to carry in fuel. So UDTJim, how do you locate turkey eggs? That would probably be one of the most valuable skills I would like to use but don't have mastered yet.
 
For years I carried what backpackers consider a "traditional" backpack. A traditional pack weighed right around 30 - 40 pounds for a man, around 25 pounds for a women. We did most of our big trail trips using traditional packs since the equipment options were few in those days.

The Triple Crown trails (AT, PCT, CDT) take several months to hike. You start in the spring, finish in the fall. It doesn't matter if you hike with ultralight gear or traditional gear, you will need to make adjustments to that gear to accommodate the changes in weather and environment. All thru-hikers will exchange clothes and equipment in towns (most often the post office) along the trail depending on the type of environment they will be going into. What we wore in New Mexico would not be the best selection for going over the mountains in Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho and Montana. Though the basics in your pack remain the same, there are those fluctuations in weight mostly with clothing, water, and food.

The last *short* trip we made with ultralight backpacks took us over a month to complete on the trail. During that time, we ran into scores of other ultralight backpackers who had been on the trail much longer (months).

There are good backpackers and there are terrible backpackers. There are highly experienced backpackers and there are very inexperienced backpackers. There are liberals, conservatives, in-between, slow, fast, fun, miserable, positive, negative, whiners, exhorters, extremists, the smart and not-so-smart. There are successes and failures, equally. Discussing the bad is not nearly as educational as discussing the good. If one wants to intelligently discuss "ultralight versus traditional", he will have to have some experience with both. Asking questions about either is a good way to approach the issue. Making bold statements about something one has little or no experience with shows bad form and most often these people are not teachable (been there, done that, got the t-shirt).

Extremes exist everywhere. So what. I love guns and have been a member of the NRA since the 60's. I am greatly disturbed when I see someone commit a crime with a handgun. I know several groups that will judge all handgun owners based on what some psychopath does with his handgun. We see it almost everyday in the news. Myself, I don't judge all ultralight backpackers in light of what some extreme minimalist does. More so than not, I have witnessed many, many more people who go at backpacking carrying FAR TOO MUCH for the distance they are planning to travel (you know 'em when you see 'em). We don't laugh at these folks or polk fun at them (we been there too!), but we do our best to help them understand what is really needed for their adventure and how best to carry it. :)

Reading most of the posts here on this thread, I'm guessing most folks don't travel very far by a thru-hikers standards. In that case, take the kitchen sink! I do, on the really, really short trips.
 
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Hiking and Backpacking should not about heavy or light. It's about being reasonable. Take what you need and want. Get ultra light if you want. Get ultra heavy if you want. I'm in the middle. Moderation is key in nearly all aspects of life :D I'm really glad we have this forum. I love it here.
 
I dont get this?? Why soo much crap being thrown around? How many members here own knives that they most likely never use ... they just like em.
Whats wrong with liking ultralight gear even if it doesnt work ... have an opinion but to put people down for their interests?
Dead set ... some of the kits I've seen here appear to be a joke ... but I enjoy the imagination of it all ... I enjoy the enthusasism of it all ... discussing it here ... talking crap ...
I say go hard ultralighters even if you want to eat with your crap shovel ... go on strong blade owners even though we might own 20 variations of the same knife.
Coopers anyone. I like ginger beer too.
 
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I still stand on what I have always said. If you can pack it, and you can carry it, take it. When I say "carry it", that means if you are going 500 yards or 5 miles or more. The point is, you have to know your limits...sort of like a Dirty Harry quote. I think being able to look at what you are capable of doing says a lot to how you will pack. I have no problem taking a few extra pounds a couple more miles in. Our military soldiers carry an extra 40+ pounds MINIMUM in 100+ temps on a daily basis. Our boys could literally take the kitchen sink with them. Could the average hiker? Nope. Not by a long shot. Knowing limits, knowing how to use what you have, knowing what you need to take to compensate or what to take because you are lacking a skill is vital. Knowing really IS half the battle. It is up to the individual to choose based on what he or she knows.:thumbup:
 
A good size batch of turkey's usually make quite a bit of noise and are not hard to find, They often make nests in fence lines and thickets. The eggs are excellent and larger than chicken eggs.
 
I forgot that I always end up borrowing everything from the heavyweights. Absolutely everything. I'm such a gram weenie I neglect to pack anything and am completely reliant on the kindness of strangers. Much like streetcar named desire.
Now if only I could find a real mountain man to show me the correct way to hike.:D
 
udtjim said:
A good size batch of turkey's usually make quite a bit of noise and are not hard to find, They often make nests in fence lines and thickets. The eggs are excellent and larger than chicken eggs.
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Balut fans should take note, that would make a Balut on steroids. :D
 
I might mention that duck eggs are good, too. They taste a little stronger than chicken eggs, but good. They make great omelets, too.
 
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