The virtues of informed criticism

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My understanding is that the gallery is the place to show knives without comment. This is where people come to improve, impress, both, or neither, depending on their success.

But agreed that consideration is key in all this. There's a way to make a critique without ad hominem attacks. I see this all the time, but was never here for the good old days, so I don't have much to compare it to.

Seth
 
Commentary? possibly. Being criticized in public. No not really.
Even then, any commentary should be well thought and presented in a polite manner.
Also would be a good idea to ask if the knifemaker wishes the criticism or not.
Politeness is a wonderful thing sometimes.

Perhaps Karda, you could suggest several adjectives that could be used to describe less than stellar work, politely.
 
Is it okay for one person to say.......I love this knife but not okay for another to say they dislike it ?
 
Is it okay for one person to say.......I love this knife but not okay for another to say they dislike it ?

It all depends on the context and how such dislike is voiced, As I've stated previously.

I am interested in hearing your suggestions.

If I were to offer suggestions for adjectives to use I would be depriving someone of a chance at educating themselves, therefore I will not be offering them. Just as it is up to me to choose my words and use them carefully, so is it up to others to do the same.
 
If I were to offer suggestions for adjectives to use I would be depriving someone of a chance at educating themselves, therefore I will not be offering them. Just as it is up to me to choose my words and use them carefully, so is it up to others to do the same.

Do you ever take suggestions?
 
If I were to offer suggestions for adjectives to use I would be depriving someone of a chance at educating themselves, therefore I will not be offering them.
I don't understand why you can't give some examples so we have a baseline of what you as "Transcendental SuperModitation" consider to be acceptable. I think Peter made a very reasonable request.

Chuck
 
I don't understand why you can't give some examples so we have a baseline of what you as "Transcendental SuperModitation" consider to be acceptable. I think Peter made a very reasonable request.

Chuck

I myself prefer not to comment on someone elses hard work. I may comment sometimes if I like something, but if I don't, I prefer to keep my OPINION to myself. I think all here have graduated from high school at least, so the concept of education and study should not be foreign to them. Nor should the concept of manners, etiquette, politeness or grammar be foreign.
All should by now have a grasp of these things, and a moderator should not have to specifically spell out just exactly should be said or not said.

I think it was stated pretty well here anyways: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...of-informed-criticism?p=12938507#post12938507
 
This forum often has a snob-craft feel to it, especially when certain individuals take it upon themselves to "school" other members. I think there are many forms and definitions that fall under the term "custom". Usually the term cant even be agreed on here.. to define it. just as there are a variety of members who enjoy looking at knives, making knives for a living, or just peruse the threads, each should feel comfortable enough to share. This forum is a very anonymous place, still. No one has a monopoly on what is truly the "correct way". it is mostly subjective. You can test one knife against others and post your results. but usually no one is in the business to challenge another's methods and credentials to that degree. Nor do i think most makers would enjoy the contest and humiliation of a cutting contest to see what is truly a better tool. It is a beauty contest, the art world. We are inspired by custom knives more than using the knife to fight for our lives. ( Unless you are someone like Joe)! ;).
David
 
The "virtues of informed criticism"? What a mouthful..

I have never read a user review, or destructive test of a Loveless or Warenski knife. Why do i ask? It would inform why i or anyone else should believe it is worth thousands of dollars..
 
David I agree

On the net everything is a virtual beauty contest

You can not feel or see the knives n action

But I'm looking to change that :)
 
:thumbup: thanks Joe. I have always enjoyed your reviews and posts.
David
 
David,

When I first started in this subforum, it seemed a bit elitist to me too. Until you realize that the people that post here are some of the best knife makers and artisans on the planet, and the photographers that depict that exceptionalism are no less accomplished.

Everyone is welcome to post and comment here. I think it's one of the fairest places out there, in that when something great is demonstrated, people show their appreciation. If not, crickets.

The common thread is that if folks aren't interested in pushing the boundaries of design, fit, finish, and aesthetic, the response may not be what you're looking for. Performance is hard, but not impossible, to demonstrate, unless you're Joe. :p

Seth
 
I think that it would be rude not to give an honest opinion to someone asking for it, as a hobbyist knife maker I am super thankful for all the criticism that I have gotten, but it has always been in-person because no one can hold the knife over the internet. But going to a knife show or the internet and going "lol it suckserz" is not helping anyone.

And on another note Joe's knives are so classy looking.
 
Peter: Your post from the Pipe world is relevant, however, for me it reads so pompously my pea brain can barely understand it. Then again I'm not an intellectual pipe smoker. LOL!

Joe P: You point out that we ought to comment as if we would in person. Well said. However.... how hard is it to come up to a known (or unknown) maker at a show and without their prompting tell them what you don't like about their work and how it might be improved. Ugghh. Me, I place the work back on the table, look them in the eye and say thank you as I move on. :) I've been handled a million knives. I know what works and what doesn't for me, and even in the closest of confidence it's overbearing to broach this in person, unless asked.

Peter: you are on target. THIS is the place to learn and educate. A show is the culmination of many other things, and social graces are paramount.

So it can be here. As much as I can and need to be an 'attaboy' player, I see the need for constructive criticism.

I really don't buy that ANYTIME a piece of work is shown it's an open market for critical dialog. That's internet at it's worst, and I'm participating in this community as internet at it's BEST.

There are threads on Pg1 of this forum today about the fall and decline of collectors of certain styles of knives, and how to attract new interest and members. We need growth, not alarms ringing.

I've said this before and it bears repeating: Unless a critique is asked for or "comments welcome", that's a roadblock for CC dialog. The kind of dialog that poster wants is the casual comments they'd get at a show or in person. Many will disagree and this will spark another debate, but that's how I view it.

Truth is it is hard to stand up to critique however well-meaning or educated. If you are really ready you'll mention this first. Some might simply be ambivalent and forgot to add this qualifier.

Karda, a suggestion for this forum: When a new post is opened there are a few canned subject lines: Review, Photos, Off Topic, How to, CONTEST!!!, and Recommendation.

Lose the 'Off Topic' and 'CONTEST!!!' and add in: 'Comments welcome'. (I know this ought to be handled in S&S, but we're talking here now.) A small change that might open doors otherwise left closed.

Observers: If you really want to say something that you find needs improving, our opening words are the key to that toolbox. It takes MORE thoughtful work from the critic to set the verbal tone. It's patently easier to just get right into it. (That's when the trouble started... ;))

There is a wide divide between Kumbaya and Brash. However that's the 'Yin and Yang' of education and constructive criticism. Neither works well alone.

Coop
 
I was a soccer coach for a few year teaching 10 year old boys and there was a lot of faceplaming, but if you say something nice then criticize then say something encouraging it usually worked out and there were no hurt feelings, but you have to say it right.
 
Jim as usual you are the voice of reason

I agree. I only comment in person on knives that people ask my opinion on and than I try to be as honest as I can be so that I can be of help

As most people notice I do not comment on knives I do not like on here

I find no enjoyment on raining on anyone's parade :)

I think your suggestion about the topic line is very good
 
A thread will still need to be started in Service & Support concerning the thread tags,
Spark is the only one that can change them, if they can be changed.
 
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