there is a green flipping frenzy going on

[ToxicBot11]

FCM415,
I agree the flipping is disturbing, especially when everyone who did pre-order hasn't received theirs yet. The same thing happened when the orange DoDo was released: I recall the first one on (an auction site) going for $200. I don't know if Spyderco could produce enough sprints to satisfy demand and curtail this behavior; they'd basically have to flood the market with enough product so that there was always that product available to purchase from reputable dealers, eliminating the need for ELUs to buy at higher markups. Or Spyderco could just start selling all their sprints at $300 and price the scalpers out of the market too!!!

Slippery slope because then Spyderco would be accused of being as bad as the flippers, basically taking advantage of the situation. Also if they had a starting price of $300 then people would simply turn around and put a price tag of $500 on them and I'd bet they would still sale.

If they made enough sprints to curtail flippers/collectors then its not really a "limited edition" knife anymore, heck, might as well get rid of sprint runs altogether, just make everything a regular production knife.

Trying to solve this problem is full of Catch-22's me thinks.

 

[FCM415]

FCM415,
I agree the flipping is disturbing, especially when everyone who did pre-order hasn't received theirs yet. The same thing happened when the orange DoDo was released: I recall the first one on (an auction site) going for $200. I don't know if Spyderco could produce enough sprints to satisfy demand and curtail this behavior; they'd basically have to flood the market with enough product so that there was always that product available to purchase from reputable dealers, eliminating the need for ELUs to buy at higher markups. Or Spyderco could just start selling all their sprints at $300 and price the scalpers out of the market too!!!

I know, basically it is what it is, same thing Jtoler is saying essentially. That's the price you are gonna pay now, what are we gonna do right?

 

[jtoler_9]

I don't think it's hard to understand the point of this thread: some people who missed the pre-order now are paying double the price for the same knife, sold by some people who didn't miss the pre-order and very likely never intended to keep/use the knife in the first place, and only intended to sell it for an inflated price, knowing it would be immensely popular. Also, some people who missed the pre-order are cleared priced out of the market at these secondary prices. Counterpoint: capitalism is a b*tch!!! Did I miss anything?

Thank you for the summary. It's not the content of the thread that is hard to understand. It's the people throwing out the moral high ground card, and saying that people selling in the exchange are bad, when they themselves sell their knives (many limited editions) for a profit in the exchange. That's the part that I get confused on. Please don't misunderstand me, I am not saying that everyone posting in this thread does that. But there are those that like to jump on the group think band wagon and get off when it is convenient. It would be nice if people could buy and sell what they wanted to between each other without so many people giving an opinion on the business they are trying to conduct. I know this is a touchy subject, so I will jump off here before I get myself into too much trouble. Thanks for chatting with me.

 

[FCM415]

Slippery slope because then Spyderco would be accused of being as bad as the flippers, basically taking advantage of the situation. Also if they had a starting price of $300 then people would simply turn around and put a price tag of $500 on them and I'd bet they would still sale.

If they made enough sprints to curtail flippers/collectors then its not really a "limited edition" knife anymore, heck, might as well get rid of sprint runs altogether, just make everything a regular production knife.

Trying to solve this problem is full of Catch-22's me thinks.

We know, he wasn't actually suggesting they do that... More like a what the heck response...

 

[FCM415]

I hear ya Jtoler.

 

[FCM415]

I am into plenty of knives, and as far as me being crazy busy on the exchange with limiteds, well let's see... Ive sold three CBCF's for $370 and two SHOTSHow Grips for $180 this month, less than how much most dealers sold em for. Thanks for bringing that up, it shows that not everyone is in it to make a fast buck.

Just to add, after shipping, fees, and insurance I made no profit lmao...And this was when the CBCF was hot and was being priced at up to $800. I didnt intend to play the moral high ground on people. Im looking more at the big picture than individuals. I know that well... Who am I to dictate what people do...

The gist of this thread is the concern that a knife that just dropped is already priced at more than twice what the exclusive dealer sold it for... And if you are gonna call me out for selling knives at generous prices... How much profit did you make on the green Para you sold today Jtoler? l commend you for selling at the cheapest Ive seen.

Flippers are right though, it's not gonna change, we're complaining to deaf ears. But we are just voicing concerns that plenty of end users now have to deal with a second middle man, that's really it in a nutshell. Let's move on.

 

[singularity35]

I think that a good way to control speculation is the "threat" of additional runs. If aftermarket price goes above a certain point, additional runs could dissuade the pure speculators. Additional runs would also serve to put more into the hands of ELU's.

 

[powernoodle]

If you click on Bladeforums 8200 times a day like I do, you don't miss the latest gossip and release dates on sprint runs, and you don't have to deal with the secondary market.

But seriously, just about anyone can stay on top of this stuff if they want to, and then you end up being the person with 2x carbon fiber Military's or blue Para 2's or whatever. Check BF often, and keep an eye on the smart phone a couple of times during the day. Then its you, and not someone else, who decides to hoard or sell that extra sprint run you have. I have no problem with people who flip knives, because its mostly within your control if you are one of the first 600 or 800 buyers, or not. There is no guarantee that you can get every sprint you want, but keeping on top of things will put you in pretty good shape. And then we don't have to complain about other people who paid more attention than we did. I've gotten just about every sprint I've wanted (I did start a crybaby thread about sprints once when I wasn't so lucky), and often have purchased two of them. And I'm no better at it than anyone else. You just have to enjoy the hunt, the searching, the gossip, etc. And then when someone posts that Knifecenter is taking pre-orders for the ZT 0801CF like they did yesterday, you see it, and you take action. I may or may not actually receive one from Knifecenter, but I have a good shot because I probably got in early, and thats because I was watching Bladeforums. But if you were watching Glee instead of checking Bladeforums regularly, you lose out and then blame the people who were paying attention. Just my take. I'm locked in, for example, to receive Para 2 Dark Green with CTS-204P (if it ever ships, that is), and its solely from keeping my eyeballs open. If I had my thinking hat on, I would have ordered 2x.

 

[JNewell]

Annoying? Sure, especially if you weren't there when they were for sale originally. More than annoying? Nah, better than the alternatives. We have this spasm every time there's a hot limited production knife. It's life. It's not like trafficking in kidneys for transplant or babies for adoption.

 

[JNewell]

Counterpoint: capitalism is a b*tch!!! Did I miss anything?

It sure is. It's harsh, unequal, easy to abuse and has a host of other evils. But suggest a better alternative.

 

[JNewell]

If they made enough sprints to curtail flippers/collectors then its not really a "limited edition" knife anymore, heck, might as well get rid of sprint runs altogether, just make everything a regular production knife.

Trying to solve this problem is full of Catch-22's me thinks.

^^^ That's really the only solution: make unlimited quantities of every model forever.

 

[jimmyjohnjohn]

There sure is a lot of bellyaching and whining about micro-economics in this thread, along with plenty of cheeky suggestions for Sal about how he should run his business.

I think Spyderco's doing great. Keep it up guys, don't change a thing.

 

[singularity35]

^^^ That's really the only solution: make unlimited quantities of every model forever.

What about this? Like what happened with the blue para.

I think that a good way to control speculation is the "threat" of additional runs. If aftermarket price goes above a certain point, additional runs could dissuade the pure speculators. Additional runs would also serve to put more into the hands of ELU's.

Annoying? Sure, especially if you weren't there when they were for sale originally. More than annoying? Nah, better than the alternatives. We have this spasm every time there's a hot limited production knife. It's life. It's not like trafficking in kidneys for transplant or babies for adoption.

Can't you indulge us then? After all we have those "if you can only have one knife..." threads every month or so, maybe we can have our fun too.

 

[senorsquare]

I think that a good way to control speculation is the "threat" of additional runs. If aftermarket price goes above a certain point, additional runs could dissuade the pure speculators. Additional runs would also serve to put more into the hands of ELU's.

I don't know that this would be a viable solution because there is no rationality involved here. Case in point: We KNOW that there will be more regular production para 2's and likely real soon that can be bought from a reputable dealer for around $110. Yet just last week I watched people buy used plain jane black satin S30V PM2's for $150-$175 while KW had some in stock for $104. The "threat" of additional stock arriving in the (probably near) future did nothing to dissuade these people from selling and buying these used at $70 over what they cost brand new. All I can say is WTF mate?

 

[singularity35]

I don't know that this would be a viable solution because there is no rationality involved here. Case in point: We KNOW that there will be more regular production para 2's and likely real soon that can be bought from a reputable dealer for around $110. Yet just last week I watched people buy used plain jane black satin S30V PM2's for $150-$175 while KW had some in stock for $104. The "threat" of additional stock arriving in the (probably near) future did nothing to dissuade these people from selling and buying these used at $70 over what they cost brand new. All I can say is WTF mate?

Now, now we can't go against Darwin, can we?

 

[senorsquare]

If you click on Bladeforums 8200 times a day like I do, you don't miss the latest gossip and release dates on sprint runs, and you don't have to deal with the secondary market.

But seriously, just about anyone can stay on top of this stuff if they want to, and then you end up being the person with 2x carbon fiber Military's or blue Para 2's or whatever. Check BF often, and keep an eye on the smart phone a couple of times during the day. Then its you, and not someone else, who decides to hoard or sell that extra sprint run you have. I have no problem with people who flip knives, because its mostly within your control if you are one of the first 600 or 800 buyers, or not. There is no guarantee that you can get every sprint you want, but keeping on top of things will put you in pretty good shape. And then we don't have to complain about other people who paid more attention than we did. I've gotten just about every sprint I've wanted (I did start a crybaby thread about sprints once when I wasn't so lucky), and often have purchased two of them. And I'm no better at it than anyone else. You just have to enjoy the hunt, the searching, the gossip, etc. And then when someone posts that Knifecenter is taking pre-orders for the ZT 0801CF like they did yesterday, you see it, and you take action. I may or may not actually receive one from Knifecenter, but I have a good shot because I probably got in early, and thats because I was watching Bladeforums. But if you were watching Glee instead of checking Bladeforums regularly, you lose out and then blame the people who were paying attention. Just my take. I'm locked in, for example, to receive Para 2 Dark Green with CTS-204P (if it ever ships, that is), and its solely from keeping my eyeballs open. If I had my thinking hat on, I would have ordered 2x.

I've missed out on the orange para 2 because life threw some expenses at me and I wasn't able to get them when they were available. I was fully aware of the pre-order but by the time I had the money to get one they had sold out. Feces occur.

 

[78LilRed]

I'm quite normal and have gotten first run blue para, orange(present for my father), and the green. Threat didn't matter with the blue, they still shot up in price with the second batch and scarcity.

 

[singularity35]

I'm quite normal and have gotten first run blue para, orange(present for my father), and the green. Threat didn't matter with the blue, they still shot up in price with the second batch and scarcity.

Well, I'm seeing some being sold for $300 these days but the additional run will give a chance for some ELU's to get some at better prices. If you still can't get them for a reasonable price after 3 runs...*shrugs*

Or maybe the box will commission more runs if they still fetch three bills after the third run.

Or maybe if after multiple runs, there is still that much demand and there's money to be made, why not make it regular production? Who gets hurt? Not the ELU's I bet.

 

[senorsquare]

I'm quite normal and have gotten first run blue para, orange(present for my father), and the green. Threat didn't matter with the blue, they still shot up in price with the second batch and scarcity.

It was amazing to me watching folks paying $250 for the blue ones while bento had them in stock for $189. Crazy.

 

[senorsquare]

Well, I'm seeing some being sold for $300 these days but the additional run will give a chance for some ELU's to get some at better prices. If you still can't get them for a reasonable price after 3 runs...*shrugs*

As the old saying goes: "Screw me over once, shame on you. Screw me over twice, shame on me."