there is a green flipping frenzy going on

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All I can say is WTF mate?
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It's pretty simple, actually. This situation is mostly controlled by the Law of Supply, as explained here on Demand and Price equations. At a certain price point, there will be X amount of demand. If there isn't enough supply to meet the demand that the Para2's current price point controls, then the price will go up no matter how much future supply is promised, assuming people want one right now.

The takeaway is that the Para2 is under-priced given the current supply.

[video=youtube;ViHxHtavrO4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViHxHtavrO4[/video]
 
jimmyjohnjohn said:
It's pretty simple, actually. This situation is mostly controlled by the Law of Supply, as explained here on Demand and Price equations. At a certain price point, there will be X amount of demand. If there isn't enough supply to meet the demand that the Para2's current price point controls, then the price will go up no matter how much future supply is promised, assuming people want one right now.

The takeaway is that the Para2 is under-priced given the current supply.
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Yep, and so speculators are speculating. ;)
 
I presume this frenzy is for the PM? Just wait, the price will go down again and everyone will be able to buy one for normal prices. Don't get sucked into the i'll buy them as an investement frenzy.I don't want to see spyderco turn into Busse where people expect their slabs of steel to turn into gold.
 
Yep, and so speculators are speculating.
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To me it seems pretty obvious that people are either:

1. Selling one of the two knives they bought, in order to retain one and essentially have its effective cost to them equal zero, or
2. Are selling the one knife they bought because they can buy much more with the money from the secondary market sale now, essentially multiplying their initial purchase.

Blaming "speculators" is a bit of a red herring in this case. Making $60 to $150 profit on one knife isn't much in the way of speculative activity, if that's what you're trying to find. I'd be much more concerned about people buying 25 of those virtually undetectable Chinese Para2's for $40 each and selling them with a $100 markup.
 
That's the real problem all right. We get our knickers in a twist over a few folks who flip knives to make a small profit when the real problem lies thousands of miles away. Manufacturers can lessen the impact by maintaining sufficient supply of their most popular products to keep up with demand.

It's real easy to blame the bad guys, but the good guys have a role to play in this as well.
 
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jimmyjohnjohn said:
To me it seems pretty obvious that people are either:

1. Selling one of the two knives they bought, in order to retain one and essentially have its effective cost to them equal zero, or
2. Are selling the one knife they bought because they can buy much more with the money from the secondary market sale now, essentially multiplying their initial purchase.

Blaming "speculators" is a bit of a red herring in this case. Making $60 to $150 profit on one knife isn't much in the way of speculative activity, if that's what you're trying to find. I'd be much more concerned about people buying 25 of those virtually undetectable Chinese Para2's for $40 each and selling them with a $100 markup.
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bld522 said:
That's the real problem all right. We get our knickers in a twist over a few folks who flip knives to make a small profit when the real problem lies thousands of miles away. Manufacturers can lessen the impact by maintaining sufficient supply to keep up with demand.
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Ooohh...here's a previous post.

singularity35 said:
Me too. We just have a difference of opinion regarding people who aren't really knife users who just want to make money off the afis here. :)
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I don't mind the afis buying then later selling at the prevailing market price. I also don't mind an afi buying a couple then selling at a premium to subsidize the one he keeps. It's the people who probably don't even carry or use a knife, who buy 10 pieces or so and who turn around and just make money off of the afis that my knickers are in a twist about.

But then some people do come out of the woodwork to get on my case. :D
 
singularity35 said:
I don't mind the afis buying then later selling at the prevailing market price. I also don't mind an afi buying a couple then selling at a premium to subsidize the one he keeps. It's the people who probably don't even carry or use a knife, who buy 10 pieces or so and who turn around and just make money off of the afis that my knickers are in a twist about.
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You know what another name for those folks are? Capitalists! :)
 
senorsquare said:
It was amazing to me watching folks paying $250 for the blue ones while bento had them in stock for $189. Crazy.
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Seeing that was quite humorous to me, glad I got in on the first batch and it became a user immediately. It's my go to knife for fishing.
 
My condolences to those who got in on the pre-order. It's obvious from the first couple of pages of this thread that some kind of evil karma was created which put those individuals in serious financial straits during the wait for availability.

Seriously, folks, if you have to have it, pay the price. If the price is too high wait for the next must have to come up. The only way to stop this cycle is to refuse to pay the price asked. Ain't gonna happen in today's "instant gratification" society.
 
GronK said:
My condolences to those who got in on the pre-order. It's obvious from the first couple of pages of this thread that some kind of evil karma was created which put those individuals in serious financial straits during the wait for availability.

Seriously, folks, if you have to have it, pay the price. If the price is too high wait for the next must have to come up. The only way to stop this cycle is to refuse to pay the price asked. Ain't gonna happen in today's "instant gratification" society.
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Haha...

singularity35 said:
You think we don't know that? That's why we're complainig in this thread. Can't we just vent without getting scolded? :p

Oh yeh, I'm getting one too. A friend got in early on the pre-orders and he got one for me too. So I'm not complaining because I'm not getting one. ;)
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It'll be here in about a month...

I even managed to hook up a friend from another friend. At cost. :)

So yeah, I can play the game. I choose not to.
 
singularity35 said:
I don't mind the afis buying then later selling at the prevailing market price. I also don't mind an afi buying a couple then selling at a premium to subsidize the one he keeps. It's the people who probably don't even carry or use a knife, who buy 10 pieces or so and who turn around and just make money off of the afis that my knickers are in a twist about.

But then some people do come out of the woodwork to get on my case. :D
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+1, this.

Generally speaking, flipping/scalping doesn't bother me all that much. Personally I think there are better ways to make a buck, but it is what it is. My main issue was seeing non-dealer members establishing a pattern of selling multiple BNIB regular production para2's on the BF exchange or advertising their "deals" on Ebay in every related thread and in signatures. Frankly, it was a bit obnoxious and it is also against BF rules: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/announcement.php?f=892&a=23

It also sucks to see the personal/pseudo political attacks that come out when someone dares to voice their frustration or disappointment at secondary market prices. Suggesting that this automatically makes the poster some kind of pinko commie crybaby is a bit absurd, imo. Not really in keeping with the spirit of this place... Powernoodle made some great points in his post here, but even he admitted that he succumbed to whining at least once ;)

As far as Spyderco's involvement, I actually agree with ToxicBot. They're stuck in a catch-22 in that there is no solution that will make everyone happy. Probably they realize that the Para2 won't be as popular with knife nuts as Justin Beiber is with little girls forever :D, and they will just ride it out. Production of the regular models will catch up with demand eventually, there will likely be more sprints/exclusives to come, and secondary market prices probably won't be at these levels forever.
 
bld522 said:
HAHA. Then again, I see you don't live in the good 'ol US of A, so maybe you don't understand how things work around here. ;)
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Yup, you got personal again but that's no surprise. :D

Apophis said it better than I ever could.

Apophis said:
It also sucks to see the personal/pseudo political attacks that come out when someone dares to voice their frustration or disappointment at secondary market prices. Suggesting that this automatically makes the poster some kind of pinko commie crybaby is a bit absurd, imo...
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singularity35 said:
Yup, you got personal again but that's no surprise. :D
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Not really. I was just trying to figure out why you were having difficulty figuring out what makes us Americans tick. And there's more than one way to deal with frustration and disappointment at secondary market prices . . . some which are palatable to this community and some which are not.

There's an old saying that applies here . . . he who laughs last laughs best! :)
 
The scalpers are doing the knife community a favor. :)

They allow people who are years late to a knife, an opportunity to buy that knife. If everyone that bought them did so to use and keep, then those late comers would be without a knife. But now they have the opportunity to spend more and own the knife instead of only being able to look at a picture and complain that they missed out and don't have one.
 
bld522 said:
Not really. I was just trying to figure out why you were having difficulty figuring out what makes us Americans tick. And there's more than one way to deal with frustration and disappointment at secondary market prices . . . some which are palatable to this community and some which are not.

There's an old saying that applies here . . . he who laughs last laughs best! :)
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Really? And who decides that? I see more Americans grumble about secondary market practices than Filipinos. There's also a matter of a "clique" that dictates opinions here on BF and it's always the usual suspects when it comes to particular topics.
 
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