Thinking about open-carrying a dagger

[chopsaki]

My county allows them occasionally, and since a lot of my work puts me in bad parts of town late at night, I thought I might as well give it a shot.

Good luck! I’m pulling for ya!

 

[Man with no name]

I continue to believe that, on balance, the entire notion of a "knife as defensive weapon" is foolish and dangerous. The number of circumstances in which it makes more sense to try to use a knife in self-defense than it does to walk/run away approaches zero. Add to that the probability that carrying a knife for self-defense will engender a false sense of security and it's just not a good mindset.

Knife would be used as a last resort. And as Lynn Thompson of Cold Steel is fond of saying "It beats using your fingernails".

 

[chopsaki]

Personally I only carry a knife as a tool for EDC tasks but humans for centuries have carried blades for defense weapons. The notion that they are ineffective in present times seems a little dismissive. Close range attacks, which I would imagine where the majority of attacks occur, knives are very dangerous.

Training is good For muscle memory and mindset for any defensive tool and unarmed combat. But also aggression and heart go a loooong way in combative situations. I read about a jogger who used a pocket knife to stop an attack a few weeks ago. I have mentioned this before here but I had a buddy of mine who was a victim of a home invasion by two men. One of which he dispatched with the closest tool available, a fixed blade knife and the other ran away after his buddy was ventilated by said blade. Attacks and combat of any kind are very dynamic situations where there are no absolutes in saying this or that won’t work. Any tool is better than no tool but the most important factor of all is the person behind the tool.

 

[jackknife]

PS, I took the advice of people on this board... A year ago, I started training in Pekiti Tirsia Kali. A knife can be an extremely effective weapon if you know when and how to employ it.

And yes, I keep body armor in my car.

But will you have the time to put it on????

It's been my experience as a big city dweller from Washington D.C., that if things happen, they tend to happen very quickly and unplanned. Being young and dumb when friends and I ran the streets of D.C. going places we shouldn't have, doing things we shouldn't have, and getting into situations that could have been avoided with a little common sense, that the shite happens VERY fast. Heck, if you're in the car, or have cases to the car, go like Robert Mitchum in Thunder Road!

Of course CM, you yourself made the most intelligent post way back. You boiled it down, distilled it, bottled it, and wrapped it all up in a nice ribbon. The proverbial essence of truth in three simple lines;

Don't be an a$$hole.
Don't go where a$$holes congregate.
If you won't go there without a gun, don't go there!

Did I get that right, CM?

Three simple rules to get through life with a minimum of drama.

 

[22-rimfire]

....17235.
As used in this part, “switchblade knife” means a knife having the appearance of a pocketknife and includes a spring-blade knife, snap-blade knife, gravity knife, or any other similar type knife, the blade or blades of which are two or more inches in length and which can be released automatically by a flick of a button, pressure on the handle, flip of the wrist or other mechanical device, or is released by the weight of the blade or by any type of mechanism whatsoever. “Switchblade knife” does not include a knife that opens with one hand utilizing thumb pressure applied solely to the blade of the knife or a thumb stud attached to the blade, provided that the knife has a detent or other mechanism that provides resistance that must be overcome in opening the blade, or that biases the blade back toward its closed position.

(Added by Stats. 2010, Ch. 711, Sec. 6. Effective January 1, 2011. Operative January 1, 2012, by Sec. 10 of Ch. 711.

Interesting for CA. This would be pretty much consistent with NYC knife law on gravity knives and so forth. It is a broad expansion of the "switchblade" characterization.

 

[Man with no name]

The problem is there are assholes everywhere.

 

[scubisino]

Almost 100$ for a 440c dull ice pick?.... no thank you...

 

[HappyDaddy]

Personally I only carry a knife as a tool for EDC tasks but humans for centuries have carried blades for defense weapons. The notion that they are ineffective in present times seems a little dismissive. Close range attacks, which I would imagine where the majority of attacks occur, knives are very dangerous.

Training is good For muscle memory and mindset for any defensive tool and unarmed combat. But also aggression and heart go a loooong way in combative situations. I read about a jogger who used a pocket knife to stop an attack a few weeks ago. I have mentioned this before here but I had a buddy of mine who was a victim of a home invasion by two men. One of which he dispatched with the closest tool available, a fixed blade knife and the other ran away after his buddy was ventilated by said blade. Attacks and combat of any kind are very dynamic situations where there are no absolutes in saying this or that won’t work. Any tool is better than no tool but the most important factor of all is the person behind the tool.

Your example, while not doubted, is the outlier that results in my use of the word "approaches" in "approaches zero." BTW- Use of a knife in self-defense from an "attack" in which the attacker isn't armed will almost certainly result in your arrest. I stand by my comment in every respect.

 

[22-rimfire]

Don't be an a$$hole.
Don't go where a$$holes congregate.
If you won't go there without a gun, don't go there!

Did I get that right, CM?

Three simple rules to get through life with a minimum of drama.

The problem is that some of us have to go places where it simply isn't safe (in the traditional broad view sense) in order to put food on the table. Think of the UPS or FedEx guys and gals. I try not to be an a$$hole, but that is subject to interpretation.

Gaston's comment about carrying a 1911 for 40 years (a big lump certainly) and most likely never needing it. Tis why as jackknife said, we have other choices now. We did 100 years ago too, but the "lumps" have gotten smaller, and certainly lighter.

 

[chopsaki]

Your example, while not doubted, is the outlier that results in my use of the word "approaches" in "approaches zero." BTW- Use of a knife in self-defense from an "attack" in which the attacker isn't armed will almost certainly result in your arrest. I stand by my comment in every respect.

Sooo you think that female Jogger who defended herself with that knife gotnjntk trouble? She didn’t. You absolutely can defend yourself with a weapon against an unarmed attacker depending on the circumstance. Multiple attackers, size of attacker, location of attack ect. You are wrong.

 

[Charlie Mike]

Don't be an a$$hole.
Don't go where a$$holes congregate.
If you won't go there without a gun, don't go there (with a gun).

Fixed it

 

[Man with no name]

Exactly. If a place is so bad that you think you might need a gun may be best to avoid such places in the first place.

 

[SkrufKnifer]

I grew up in a place where in elementary school a few of my class mates brought hand guns to school. Where I came up you had to fight people/s regularly. Usually a group would find a single person. I carried a dagger just for that. I wasn't old enough to carry a gun. I got jumped by some kids who wanted to get into the 29th St crips. I shanked two of those POS,s. I called the police after the incident has the other three got back in the car and fled. One of them took a puncture to the liver. His two buddies rolled him into anl ditch to bleed out. The officer that interviewed me said. "Why didn't you shoot them?" Said I'm not old enough to carry a pistol. Officer responded. " good thing you had that knife". So if you think you might need a dagger then carry it. With innarms reach ID rather have a knife than a gun

So telling some one not to go somewhere because shitty people are there. Maybe this guy has to live in the same shit hole I had to grow up in

 

[HappyDaddy]

Sooo you think that female Jogger who defended herself with that knife gotnjntk trouble? She didn’t. You absolutely can defend yourself with a weapon against an unarmed attacker depending on the circumstance. Multiple attackers, size of attacker, location of attack ect. You are wrong.

You're free to depend on the outliers (and to ignore my lawyerly qualifiers). That doesn't make me wrong. Besides which, my point is not that there are no circumstances in which one could appropriately and successfully use a knife in self-defense (which is why I never said it). My point is that it is a mistake to think "I'm safer now" when putting that knife in your pocket.

 

[jackknife]

Fixed it

Thanks!

 

[SkrufKnifer]

Especially with knives, I think it's a good idea to train for a self defense situation if you make the choice to carry a knife dominantly for this reason. This takes time, effort, and often money. I know I'd be close to useless defending myself with a knife unless I just got lucky.

Carrying a dagger (double edged) will almost always be viewed as a weapon by law enforcement regardless of legalities in terms of carry. It's your choice.

I agree with the self defense. Get into a place that engages in full contact exercise. Got to a place where your going to get hit and hit hard. Get your be rung. Get knocked out. If you can't do that in a safe setting then you are most likely not going to do well in the event of a fight. I guess I was lucky growing up the " man of the house" would beat the shit out of me every time he was drunk. So I got use to being knocked unconscious at a young age. The hardest part is stopping the panic and anxiety, and start thinking and making your body work.

As for law enforcement and knives, ive never had a problem but you can or at the time I lived there the only knife law was. Nothing over 7 1/2 couldn't be concealed. So let that group get close enough to o get shanked. They shouldn't be fucking with you to begin with. If you kill or seriously injure them well it's there own damn fault. I sure as hell wouldn't convict you

 

[jackknife]

Your example, while not doubted, is the outlier that results in my use of the word "approaches" in "approaches zero." BTW- Use of a knife in self-defense from an "attack" in which the attacker isn't armed will almost certainly result in your arrest. I stand by my comment in every respect.

No, you are not going to jail by some automatic default because you used a knife on an unarmed person. A much younger person defending against a bigger older attacker, or an elderly person defensing against a much younger attacker. A woman defending against a male attacker. Check your legal resource and look up 'disparity of force'. Heck, you can even shoot someone if there is a disparity of force enough for legal cause. Travon Martin was shot and killed by George Zimmerman even though Martin was totally unarmed. The fact that he had Zimmerman down and was beating the dog snot out of him and was a bigger individual was the disparity of force. The only reason there was a trial was political pressure.

Standing by your comment doesn't change the fact that you are wrong. There has been a ton of people who have shot, stabbed, or clubbed unarmed persons and not been arrested.

 

[chopsaki]

You're free to depend on the outliers (and to ignore my lawyerly qualifiers). That doesn't make me wrong. Besides which, my point is not that there are no circumstances in which one could appropriately and successfully use a knife in self-defense (which is why I never said it). My point is that it is a mistake to think "I'm safer now" when putting that knife in your pocket.

I guess I missed the part where anyone said they feel safer for carrying a tool that may or may not be used in defense? I wasn’t really commenting on anybody feeling safer.

 

[Lapedog]

Lap, self defense is not illegal in Canada either. You have to prove equivalent force, minimum intent to harm, and no other option. Going to trial to justify ones actions is not the same as something being illegal. Carry of a knife for self defense is premeditation to commit harm. Yes it's weird, but it's two different laws, or at least sections.

Yes, I am aware of the Canadian law. Basically they don't want you defending yourself. In Canada I am not allowed to stab someone unless they have ALREADY presented a knife to me as a weapon. (Or some other lethal force)

There is a problem with self defense laws based on equivilent responses. It is that in a self defense situations we often do not have time to assess what we are being hit with. People get stabbed all the time without even realizing their opponent had a knife.

The other issue is that most attacks where you will need a weapon to defend yourself often are initiated by surprise. Usually self defense situations don't start with the two opponents squaring off and presenting their arms to eachother. Often you do not realize you are in a SD scenario until you have recieved a few blows. I am sorry but to me a lethal response IS an equivilent force response to being ambushed, even if those ambushers were unarmed. The surprise WAS their weapon.

 

[22-rimfire]

...I guess I was lucky growing up the " man of the house" would beat the shit out of me every time he was drunk. So I got use to being knocked unconscious at a young age. The hardest part is stopping the panic and anxiety, and start thinking and making your body work.

That's sad. I read and hear about such things. As a kid I was barely spanked. But I was a good kid overall. School was different and I don't look fondly back at my years in elementary and high school. That crap all stopped when I finally had "enough" and fought back. No knives were necessary, just rage.