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Rat Finkenstein said:
No, but it does make you come across as an asshole when you mock what others hold sacred.
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Third white buffalo
- Thread starter Josh Feltman
- Start date
No, but it does make you come across as an asshole when you mock what others hold sacred.
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I think we can agree that an intire tribe would probably starve before doing anything to hurt that buff. The more I travel, the more I appreciate what others value.......I truly hope that was an effort to be funny..........
Rat Finkenstein;
I don't think you were listening to the thread. It was a soft thread. We weren't yukking it up, or talking trash.
If you are serious about eating the White Buffalo should it have been born into your herd, there was no good purpose in announcing it here.
If you were just joking then you weren't listening to the other posts.
I wasn't going to tip-toe around Native American beliefs, and I sure as heck would not have brayed like the jackass at them.
That's what you did and it was deliberately offensive.
munk
I don't think you were listening to the thread. It was a soft thread. We weren't yukking it up, or talking trash.
If you are serious about eating the White Buffalo should it have been born into your herd, there was no good purpose in announcing it here.
If you were just joking then you weren't listening to the other posts.
I wasn't going to tip-toe around Native American beliefs, and I sure as heck would not have brayed like the jackass at them.
That's what you did and it was deliberately offensive.
munk
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Sylvrfalcn said:
Funny, since I didn't disrespect you, but you chose to make what I can only assume was an attempted dig at me. . .twice.
Are saying I should now give you no respect?
Josh Feltman said:
I was not being an asshole, I made a joke and an observation. An asshole would have ignored the joke, and pressed on with a foolish agenda to try to make me feel sorry for the patently non-offensive statements I have made.
Did I say "this belief is stupid"? No.
I expressed my own view, combined with some mild humor.
Other people chose to take offense for no reason, in the misguided defense of beliefs they don't hold(or do you?), that they felt were under attack due to another person making a joke. Time to unbunch thine pantaloons, gentlemen.
Perhaps I should have peppered my posts with more smileys, not that it really matters.
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munk said:
The only braying jackasses I see are the ones trying to say I was out of line.
Native americans also kill and eat white buffalo, in case you didn't know. (I am assuming the "eating" part, but they are not well known for letting things go to waste.)
I never commented on native american beliefs. . .
You ASSume whatever you want, but that doesn't make it so.
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You make deliberately rude statements, and then, when we don't "get it," we've got a problem. Common internet troll behavior.
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Josh Feltman said:
Save your breath Josh, he's the one that ain't getting it. And to answer your question regarding respect Rat, I place little stock in earning the respect of the ignorant. Think of me as you like, I've got better things to think about than you.
Sarge
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You're right Munk, back to the white buffalo. Three born at the same farm. Spirituality aside, there does seem to be some sort of genetic trend going on there. Would this occur in nature amongst a free range herd in natural habitat? If domestication of once wild animals alters genetic results, especially genetic results linked to a certain spirituality, it makes one wonder what else may be altered in the process. In other words, if what's going on at that farm is "un-natural", the results could ultimately be harmful/negative. I hope not, but I have thought about it. I think about how much is altered by our feeble attempts to shape the world to our will. Some things should be preserved and respected, but otherwise left alone. They don't need what we can do to them, we need what they can offer to us.
Sarge
Sarge
Is the Buffalo just white, or is he an albino?
Many people dismiss the miraculous by pointing out the science and logic behind the situation. If God, The Great Heart, or the The Great Mystery wanted intervention on earth, why would not natural means be used?
Yes, white animals occur in nature. There was a white moose in N Dakota I think. I believe he was shot. The domesticated herd may contain the gene neccesary for the buffalo, but so would 'regular' buffalo if allowed to roam freely across the plains.
munk
Many people dismiss the miraculous by pointing out the science and logic behind the situation. If God, The Great Heart, or the The Great Mystery wanted intervention on earth, why would not natural means be used?
Yes, white animals occur in nature. There was a white moose in N Dakota I think. I believe he was shot. The domesticated herd may contain the gene neccesary for the buffalo, but so would 'regular' buffalo if allowed to roam freely across the plains.
munk
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These aren't albinos.
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I gave up trying to show the callous they are callous . After all they are callous .
You cannot instill shame in the shameless . ( I also don,t do shame anymore.)
As Munk suggests it is proabably just a troll goading for effect .
You cannot instill shame in the shameless . ( I also don,t do shame anymore.)
As Munk suggests it is proabably just a troll goading for effect .
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YOUR REGULARLY SCHEDULED PROGRAMMING:
Friday, September 15, 2006 10:23:51 PM
White buffalo birth remains 'extremely rare'
(Published Saturday, September 9, 2006)
By Marcia Nelesen
Gazette Staff
Valerie and Dave Heider were checking for damage on their South River Road farm after an electric storm two weeks ago. They pulled up short, not believing their eyes.
In the pasture, suckling on its buffalo mom, was a newborn calf.
It was pure white.
Valerie's first words?
"Oh, God. Here we go again.''
"Unbelievable,'' Dave said on Friday. "How many times in a lifetime does lighting strike?''
The Heiders' lives were changed when Miracle, a female white buffalo, was born on their farm Aug. 20, 1994. White buffaloes are extremely rare and are said to fulfill a Native American legend foretelling peace.
And now, a white male buffalo has been born on the same property.
"I just couldn't believe that we could possibly ever have another one, not even related to Miracle whatsoever,'' Valerie said.
Miracle, the Heiders and Janesville made international news in 1994.
Believers and the curious descended on the farm, creating traffic jams on the rural road. In 1995, visitors to the Heider farm increased tourism to Rock County by 22 percent, David said.
The pilgrimages continued over the next decade, even after Miracle turned brown, which also was prophesized. The visits continued even after the buffalo died in 2004.
Now, Miracle is stuffed in the Heider gift shop.
This year, the number of visitors had dwindled enough so that the Heiders plowed the nearby parking lot, planting it in corn.
The couple, who never charged visitors to view Miracle, got on with their lives. Dave works for the Rock County Highway Department. And the Heiders sell the produce from their thriving buffalo meat business at area farmers markets.
Dave recalled that he and Valerie went outside Aug. 25 to make sure no trees were downed on the fence.
"And it (the white buffalo) was standing up, sucking, the naval still really wet,'' he said.
"It was kind of shocking, actually,'' Valerie said. "God gives you a second chance on a lot of things.''
Neither Dave nor Valerie knows whether the birth will produce a similar deluge of visitors.
"With this one being a male, I don't think it's going to have that kind of a draw on people,'' he said. The white buffalo in the Indian legend is female. And they have no clue how long the animal will remain white.
"But I imagine it's still sacred one way or the other,'' Dave said. "We know the Native Americans are going to show up.''
Native Americans consider the land where Miracle was born to be sacred, Valerie said. A second birth on the same sacred ground might increase the significance.
The calf, which has yet to be named, is not related to Miracle, Dave said.
The dad was a Wisconsin grand champion who Dave bought two years ago. But the bull kept jumping the fence.
"We couldn't keep him in,'' Dave said. "We just turned him into Hamburger Helper.''
The bull also impregnated two other females that have yet to deliver.
The Heiders plan to eventually breed the calf with Miracle's decedents.
"Maybe we'll end up with three or four (white buffalo),'' Heider said.
The couple hadn't announced the birth as of Friday morning.
They didn't really want the hassles of the last time, Dave said.
"We don't want the influx, the hoards of thousands of people we had before,'' he added.
But recently, while Valerie and Dave were photographing the calf, they noticed neighbors watching with binoculars.
"We told one of the neighbors it was a dog,'' Valerie said.
The neighbor didn't buy it.
"Here it goes,'' Dave recalled thinking.
Someone was sure to call the media. And someone did.
"I guess something like that can't be kept quiet forever," Dave said.
The couple hope to continue their farmers markets, closing the farm when they are gone. Or they may try to find somebody to stay at the place.
This actually is the third white buffalo born on the property.
One was born in 1997 but died at four days old, Valerie said.
On Friday, Valerie was still somewhat in shock.
"I still don't know whether to sit down and cry or be happy.''
Just how rare is the birth of a white buffalo?
Search the subject on the Internet, and you'll find the chances range anywhere from 1 in 16 million to 1 in 6 billion.
Dave Carter, executive director of the National Bison Association in Colorado, agreed that he's seen all kinds of statistics but doesn't have any firm figures.
Considering the number of animals out there-and the number of white calves the association knows have been born-those statistics are "a little overstated,'' he said.
But the statistics are also skewed because some of the animals that have produced white buffalo have been partially crossbred with Charolais beef cattle, he said.
Carter said it remains "extremely rare'' for a white buffalo to come from pure bison genetics.
"In terms of the overall number of animals out there, it continues to be very rare,'' Carter said. "Particularly for the Native Americans, its very special and sacred.''
The number of buffalos being raised is increasing, so Carter predicts that more white buffalo will be born.
Carter said the association would watch with interest Dave Heider's plans to breed the new male white buffalo with Miracle's descendents.
"There's been so little research done on bison genetics-in terms of these kind of characteristics-compared to research done on cattle and sheep,'' Carter said. "Our learning curve is very steep. We'll take all the information we can get.''.
Good People.
Friday, September 15, 2006 10:23:51 PM
White buffalo birth remains 'extremely rare'
(Published Saturday, September 9, 2006)
By Marcia Nelesen
Gazette Staff
Valerie and Dave Heider were checking for damage on their South River Road farm after an electric storm two weeks ago. They pulled up short, not believing their eyes.
In the pasture, suckling on its buffalo mom, was a newborn calf.
It was pure white.
Valerie's first words?
"Oh, God. Here we go again.''
"Unbelievable,'' Dave said on Friday. "How many times in a lifetime does lighting strike?''
The Heiders' lives were changed when Miracle, a female white buffalo, was born on their farm Aug. 20, 1994. White buffaloes are extremely rare and are said to fulfill a Native American legend foretelling peace.
And now, a white male buffalo has been born on the same property.
"I just couldn't believe that we could possibly ever have another one, not even related to Miracle whatsoever,'' Valerie said.
Miracle, the Heiders and Janesville made international news in 1994.
Believers and the curious descended on the farm, creating traffic jams on the rural road. In 1995, visitors to the Heider farm increased tourism to Rock County by 22 percent, David said.
The pilgrimages continued over the next decade, even after Miracle turned brown, which also was prophesized. The visits continued even after the buffalo died in 2004.
Now, Miracle is stuffed in the Heider gift shop.
This year, the number of visitors had dwindled enough so that the Heiders plowed the nearby parking lot, planting it in corn.
The couple, who never charged visitors to view Miracle, got on with their lives. Dave works for the Rock County Highway Department. And the Heiders sell the produce from their thriving buffalo meat business at area farmers markets.
Dave recalled that he and Valerie went outside Aug. 25 to make sure no trees were downed on the fence.
"And it (the white buffalo) was standing up, sucking, the naval still really wet,'' he said.
"It was kind of shocking, actually,'' Valerie said. "God gives you a second chance on a lot of things.''
Neither Dave nor Valerie knows whether the birth will produce a similar deluge of visitors.
"With this one being a male, I don't think it's going to have that kind of a draw on people,'' he said. The white buffalo in the Indian legend is female. And they have no clue how long the animal will remain white.
"But I imagine it's still sacred one way or the other,'' Dave said. "We know the Native Americans are going to show up.''
Native Americans consider the land where Miracle was born to be sacred, Valerie said. A second birth on the same sacred ground might increase the significance.
The calf, which has yet to be named, is not related to Miracle, Dave said.
The dad was a Wisconsin grand champion who Dave bought two years ago. But the bull kept jumping the fence.
"We couldn't keep him in,'' Dave said. "We just turned him into Hamburger Helper.''
The bull also impregnated two other females that have yet to deliver.
The Heiders plan to eventually breed the calf with Miracle's decedents.
"Maybe we'll end up with three or four (white buffalo),'' Heider said.
The couple hadn't announced the birth as of Friday morning.
They didn't really want the hassles of the last time, Dave said.
"We don't want the influx, the hoards of thousands of people we had before,'' he added.
But recently, while Valerie and Dave were photographing the calf, they noticed neighbors watching with binoculars.
"We told one of the neighbors it was a dog,'' Valerie said.
The neighbor didn't buy it.
"Here it goes,'' Dave recalled thinking.
Someone was sure to call the media. And someone did.
"I guess something like that can't be kept quiet forever," Dave said.
The couple hope to continue their farmers markets, closing the farm when they are gone. Or they may try to find somebody to stay at the place.
This actually is the third white buffalo born on the property.
One was born in 1997 but died at four days old, Valerie said.
On Friday, Valerie was still somewhat in shock.
"I still don't know whether to sit down and cry or be happy.''
Just how rare is the birth of a white buffalo?
Search the subject on the Internet, and you'll find the chances range anywhere from 1 in 16 million to 1 in 6 billion.
Dave Carter, executive director of the National Bison Association in Colorado, agreed that he's seen all kinds of statistics but doesn't have any firm figures.
Considering the number of animals out there-and the number of white calves the association knows have been born-those statistics are "a little overstated,'' he said.
But the statistics are also skewed because some of the animals that have produced white buffalo have been partially crossbred with Charolais beef cattle, he said.
Carter said it remains "extremely rare'' for a white buffalo to come from pure bison genetics.
"In terms of the overall number of animals out there, it continues to be very rare,'' Carter said. "Particularly for the Native Americans, its very special and sacred.''
The number of buffalos being raised is increasing, so Carter predicts that more white buffalo will be born.
Carter said the association would watch with interest Dave Heider's plans to breed the new male white buffalo with Miracle's descendents.
"There's been so little research done on bison genetics-in terms of these kind of characteristics-compared to research done on cattle and sheep,'' Carter said. "Our learning curve is very steep. We'll take all the information we can get.''.
Good People.
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- Aug 26, 2005
- Messages
- 4,106
I do not know much about the legend . Aside from the great movie (entertainment value) with Charles Bronson I know almost nothing .
For a people who used the animal from nose to tail and horn to hoof it is not surprising to find reverence . I have field dressed a few animals and partially processed a few hides . Just about anything done requires a great deal of effort . Aside from the hunt which could have deadly consequences of its own just processing sinew is a task requiring beaucoup effort . It is amazingly strong stuff . You must pound it into fibres between two rocks . A good . long chopping session with a kukuuri may give you an idea . This gave them sewing thread and along with hide glue (don,t ask) would retain anything from arrowheads on a shaft to a backing on a bow with the strength of Hercules .
I would imagine there were days/weeks/months of hunger where more than a few prayers were said . Even if someone is not a believer it doesn,t take much more than the hunger of your child to change your point of view .
This is for commonly colored Buffalo . Imagine when a true rarity comes along. A white Buffalo . Perhaps never seen or heard of before . If this was coupled with an event of similar singularity who can say how we would feel about it .
For a people who used the animal from nose to tail and horn to hoof it is not surprising to find reverence . I have field dressed a few animals and partially processed a few hides . Just about anything done requires a great deal of effort . Aside from the hunt which could have deadly consequences of its own just processing sinew is a task requiring beaucoup effort . It is amazingly strong stuff . You must pound it into fibres between two rocks . A good . long chopping session with a kukuuri may give you an idea . This gave them sewing thread and along with hide glue (don,t ask) would retain anything from arrowheads on a shaft to a backing on a bow with the strength of Hercules .
I would imagine there were days/weeks/months of hunger where more than a few prayers were said . Even if someone is not a believer it doesn,t take much more than the hunger of your child to change your point of view .
This is for commonly colored Buffalo . Imagine when a true rarity comes along. A white Buffalo . Perhaps never seen or heard of before . If this was coupled with an event of similar singularity who can say how we would feel about it .
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Sylvrfalcn said:
No, apparently you have nothing better to do than knee-jerk and accuse me of imagined offenses.
Unlike you, I treat others with respect until they show themselves to be unworthy of it.
So now you can place yourselves in that category. Instead of respect, you display arrogance and ignorance (ironic, considering that is exactly what you have accused me of)
I think you know where you can stick your judgement/opinions of me.
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munk said:
Have you always been an ass, or do you just play one on the internet?