Third white buffalo

For God's sake, Josh, don't be sorry because of temporary turmoil. You start picking topics you think will be white bread neutral and we're really in trouble.

munk
 
Yeah Josh . It was a good thread . Lets not focus on that . Poop happens .

In reply to JohnGalt . I had not heard of Spiritbears . It is often those who live closest to the land that develop the greatest link to it .
 
A little off topic, but, I was wondering if anyone has ever had a chance to see a Spirit Bear

Yep. I saw one on a TV special a few weeks ago. Beautiful animals.

Good thread Josh. Don't second guess yourself.
 
Not seen a spirit bear, but I had a friend in university who came from that part of the north coast, and he'd seen them.

Astonishing, lovely things.
 
There have been many White Buffalo born and they will continue to be born. When the true White Buffalo is born it will change to the colors of the races of man and back again to white.
I've seen a couple of full grown White Buffalo skins. Big Medicine for many ndn peoples. There was once a tribe in California that honored the White Deer and considered them holy and the skins were highly prized by them. I don't recall if there are any people left of that tribe; just have a few pictures of them in one of my set of ndn books. These people carried HUGE obsidian knives!:eek: :cool:
An albino will always have pink eyes and a pink nose unlike a true White Animal that has normal colored eyes and black noses.
 
johngalt said:
A little off topic, but, I was wondering if anyone has ever had a chance to see a Spirit Bear. These very rare bears are only found in a few areas of British Columbia, Canada. Long known about by the First Nations people, they are not a polar bear or an albino, more like a white Kodiak.
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I came across a story recently about a bear that was found to be a cross between a grizzly and a polar bear. The really interesting aspect of the story for me was that I found the polar bears are descended from grizzlies not so long ago, and are therefore still close enough to them to mate successfully.

I don't think the spirit bears fall into the category of crossbreeds, but they may be a variant on the cusp of becoming northern bears that turned back south and lost the incipient whiteness -- except in the case these specific individuals.

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Humans have a fascinating ability to interpret, even overinterpret, the real-world phenomena around them. Symbolism means we can assign a value that is not necessarily inherent in the object itself. It is a reflection of the value the object has for us, not for itself.

Civilization is a function of according these values the respect their believers place in them. In complex civilizations such as our own, worldwide, this leads to contradictory values claiming respect.

Respect does not mean adherence or even deference. We may have to oppose some values within our own society. But we don't have to denigrate or despise them.

For example, the Judeo-Christian tradition goes back to times when polygamy was accepted. Later, it became interpreted otherwise. Dealing with polygamy, among LDS or Muslims, can be contentious, but I hope we have learned to adjudicate, not kill over it.

It would be nice to think we could talk about beliefs others find important in a way that does not overtly disrespect their believing.

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As a manager, I found that if someone challenged me to discipline or fire him, it was best to do so, since if I did not, they would find a way to make it unavoidable soon enough.

On the forums, when someone suggests I can put them on Ignore, I find it best to accede to that suggestion. It certainly avoids future contention.
 
Humans have a fascinating ability to interpret, even overinterpret, the real-world phenomena around them. Symbolism means we can assign a value that is not necessarily inherent in the object itself. It is a reflection of the value the object has for us, not for itself.
Quote Esav Benjamin .

Esav I agree with you that more can be put into symbols than is inherent in the object itself . I am not saying whether this is always the case or not .
I do see and have seen that these events can be used as teaching aids .
Reminders if you will . Guidelines . There is more to Shamanism than interpetation of symbols . I realise we are focussing upon one aspect of one event . To do so can also lead to our own interpetation of events .
 
Great thread. This guy happens to have a double recessive breeding pair. I'm suprised that he is suprised to see a thrid after he's already had two. Thats basic genetics.
 
I agree with you, Andy. I'm no expert in the field (my education in genetics stopped after a freshman biology course in college with a section on cross breeding peas). However, aren't there some things that are modifiers of certain traits? I thought i heard somewhere that eye color can be subject to other variables other than just your Bb BB eye color variables. I could be totally wrong.
This seems more rare from a genetic stand point than an albino animal. Does anyone have any information regarding this? Could it be that the alleals for the true white animal are more rare than those of simple albino offspring, or are they just making a comeback due to the lack of predation of a ranched population? Genetics and probability have to play some part in it. I would just like to know where the line of stats blur and the true unexplained begin.
Great stuff, Josh:)

Jake
 
My wife and I saw a white (not albino) fawn with its mother and sibling while out hiking. It was a very neat experience.
 
Couple weeks back, a friend sent me photos of a pair of white moose, sauntering along the highway just outside a town about 3 hours from here. Odd enough to see one white animal ... but two together?
 
Didn't look like twins, wish I could dig up that picture!

I think Munk's got it: prolly the only two day-glo moose for miles.
 
Coloration genetics can be sticky. I'm not as well-read as I should be on this, but I think things like hair, skin, and eye color can be controlled by multiple genes that can act together - either independently or in combinations. Genes that actually make the color are probably controlled by still other genes. There might be one "white" gene in the chain that makes the animal white, or there could be several "white" genes that work together. The more genes that have to work together, the rarer the trait would be. There could also be different types of whiteness - the kind we see in this animal, where the nose is black and the hair will eventually turn brown, and albinism, as two examples.

Now where does the white gene come from? More possibilities here, too:
1. The trait could be recessive, meaning that the animal would have to get one white gene from each (brown) parent.
2. The white gene could be dominant, meaning that the white animal would get the white gene from one parent. Normally, the parent would also have to be white.
3. It could be a random mutation. DNA isn't static and permanent. It changes over your lifetime from errors in copying, or exposure to various damaging things. This leads to things like cancer. It could also lead to something like a pigment problem, giving you a white calf. It's possible that this genetic line of buffalo have some sort of weak spot in their DNA that makes a "white" mutation more probable.

Why so many white buffalo at this farm? It doesn't sound like the bull was much of a factor - the rancher said he was a recent purchase and got turned into "Hamburger Helper" (interesting in light of the flames this thread started. The rancher gets a pass, though, because his actions demonstrate respect for the white buffalo calves which have been born in his herd, and people's interest in those calves. Plus, he's in the business of raising animals for food. Naturally, you'd eat them. Obviously, we don't get as much info about a person from a one-line post than we do in a string of news articles.) I'm sure someone is tracing the breeding lines of the white calves. When there was a much larger buffalo population, you'd expect white calves would be more common (constant probability for a rare event, but many more chances - like if you buy one lottery ticket or a hundred). However, modern ranched buffalo probably have fewer predators and better care than wild buffalo did two hundred years ago, so individuals will live longer and breed more. If a white gene comes up, it's more likely to repeat itself many times as the cows breed over several years.
 
Please excuse my alter ego. Sometimes he forgets himself. :D

(I put a smiley after my admission. That should make it perfectly okay.)
 
Fat Rinkenstein said:
Please excuse my alter ego. Sometimes he forgets himself. :D

(I put a smiley after my admission. That should make it perfectly okay.)
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The HI area of Bladeforums.com is a brotherhood more than any spot that I've ever been online. Its hard for an outsider to understand that. We coagulate like old blood when one of us is attacked. If Sarge says someone was out of line, then thats good enough for any of us (you were, btw). If Josh says it you've really gone too far. Don't expect quarter on the HI forum if you've riled those two of our brothers.

We expected a quick and easy apology, as any of us would have given, and not some power trip denial political trick. Had that tact been taken then the issue would have been done, and everyone would have gone back to normal. Thats how families work. We stand out because of this nature. If you don't understand that, and can't behave, then you're probably going to get run roughshod over here. And hell, even our running roughshod on Rat was handled with class and tact. It would have been a field day of insults in WC. Though I could almost see Nasty polishing the ball peen enforcer as I read the comments.

Just a rant, and, I hope I haven't overstepped with it. I didn't intend to insult anyone, leastly you Rat, who I think of as an excellent forumite. This place is different than others online, and I just wanted to express it. Munk could have done it better, but I had to type it out.
 
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