This guy doesn't like beckers.....

[tradewater]

It's fun too.

 

[Doc8404]

I was doing a little research on BK9 vs BK1 and came across this quote from Ethan himself regarding why the BK2 is so thick and thought it was interesting so I wanted to share:

"Hey Chris

If you don't mind I will answer with a bit of history. When I first introduced the Campanion I took it to shows in three thicknesses (very primitive market research) 1/4, 3/16ths, and 1/8 in. Of the people who picked it up ie. those attracted to it almost all preferred the thickest. My own preferenc was the mid thickness and I think it is still the best balance of strength and slice."

 

[Shotgun]

I don't care what is said here: For vs Against, Viable blade or sharpened prybar, Camper or Utility tool, Opinionated Reasoning or Fandom Biased, It's all BS!!

Point blank: My 2 works for ME and what I need it for. It has done everything I have asked regardless of task and has never failed......And what I need it for has nothing AT ALL to do with You or what You need. If you don't like that I appreciate it and want it and can use it.......GFY!!

See, this guy gets it.

LOL...I guess I don't then. I was under the impression that we're all here to talk about knives. I'll leave you to your bacon conversation.

Deeps breaths.

This is a good discussion.

I put less in the knife and more in the guy/gal using it. I like knives that can take apart a fatwood stump, cut up dinner, whittle cedar shavings thin enough to take a spark, and punch holes in a metal drum for your firebarrel in one sitting. For $65.

Perfect knife? Hardly. Close enough for me, though.

Moose

Does the BK2 excel at tasks where a thinner knife would? No. We all know that. It might make it useless to some, and that's okay. That's why we have so many choices. But most, if not all of us here, have more than just a scant understanding of how to properly use a knife. Our skill levels exceed the level at which the BK2 would be more optimal. We know where the knife came from, what it was based off of, and what that knife was intended for; a multi-use implement that included cutting but was not limited to cutting, specifically in that it was also designated for use for prying, digging, and tons more things that none of us would willingly subject our knives to. In that regard, the BK2 stands up as a tool moreso than a knife. Look at the numerous uses we have seen people get out of it that you would not be able to get out of almost any other "knife" that we would find better suited for daily use. Look at Tuffthumbz (or whoever it was that did pry a car door open with one) or Jarod Michael who used his as a chisel in a confined space with a hammer. Jarod didn't have a chisel, he was in the middle of Afghanistan. Tuffthumbz didn't have a pry bar, he was locked out of his car in a bad neighborhood. And look at who typically gets the BK2; people new to knives, people with less skill and experience, and look at what they do with it. It stands up because it is so extremely overbuilt. For what it is, yes, it is not the optimal knife. It couldn't be. But in many cases it can be the optimal tool. And if that doesn't work for you, if you have to have the right tool for the job, great! Awesome that you can do that. But you don't always have that luxury, and having a BK2 can serve a multitude of purposes that a crowbar cannot, or that a chisel cannot.

Thanks for the counterpoints. That's all I'm looking for. If you hate this guy's article or even hate the guy himself for bad mouthing your favorite knife that's fine. Just back it up with something.

 

[crimsonfalcon07]

Just seems to me that a responsible reviewer should review a knife based on its merits relative to its design, or make a good-faith effort to figure out why the design is the way it is, rather than making poorly-considered comparisons, and relying almost entirely upon pre-conceived notions prior to ever beginning the review. Nor am I ever impressed by people who need to list out their qualifications to try to dazzle you into accepting their conclusions. If I'm reviewing a product, I prefer for my conclusions to, as much as possible, stand on their own because they make logical sense, rather than trying to use my background to bias you into believing some logical leap that may not make much sense, or may be entirely unwarranted. More, if one personally thinks a design doesn't make sense, and yet thousands of people buy and love it, should that not be cause to consider that maybe there may be more to the picture than initially considered?

I've said more than once that the BK2 isn't my favorite. The more I make and use knives, the more I tend towards thinner stock. But an article, especially one as blatantly craving of acceptance as this one, should at least try to maintain the appearance of professionalism, in my estimation.

 

[Bladite]

backups have already been performed, really, no need to keep honing that edge

reviewer missed a few points, important ones, jumped the shark, and well, here we are. the rest is open to interpretation.

 

[Rolled edge]

Some people set themselves up on a Mt and believe they that theirs is the only opinion that matters. I think certain people are pissed because something works that cost below a 100 bucks and makes their butt hurt.

 

[crimsonfalcon07]

^^Insert BK2 here, eh?

 

[Ethan Becker]

My, my.....

I fear he misses the point of the exercise.....You WILL use the tool you have with you.especially if the SHHTF........

Having said that and having spent way too much time digging my 4 jeeps and my old 88"WB Land Rover outta the mud and a variety of precarious (please to read STUPID) situations I gotta say that my belt knife was used a lot less than the chain saw, my axe, a machete and a shovel a small belt knife ( in my case that blade was a Puma Hunters Friend ) is in many cases, for many people a very viable choice......

If ya gotta walk away from the wreck a long way from the blacktop (or gravel,for that matter) maybe you want something that can DO ANYTHING......It is not for everybody however, the two will always get the job done........I have split, carved,skinned, batonned, whittled, whacked and done sheet metal work with mine and although I tend toward the 16 these days for EDC when the feces are clogging the fan I want a BK2 handy, very handy.......

E

BTW the LMF is a follow on and much better knife than Gerber's BMF ......the LMF came along after the BK2 if memory serves me correctly.....

P.s.......Skandi grinds are better ?.....Really......I must have missed a meeting.........

E

 

[Cryptyc]

I know I've already posted in this thread earlier but after seeing a pattern in posting thoughts, I figured I'd post again.

There seems to be a notion that the BK2 is intended for individuals whom do not know much about knives and is "safer" or "more attractive to novices" or "less likely to break by those whom don't know how to use a knife" etc etc etc. I'd like to challenge that notion using myself as an example.

I know plenty about the use of knives. I've grown up around knives and have used them for indoor and outdoor needs since I was a child. As a child I spent a lot of time in the woods when I lived in the Hawley, PA area. You couldn't find me without a knife and a .22lr rifle. In addition, I spent many years training in martial arts. This gave me an appreciation for the use of knives (and swords) in combat.

This led me to specialized blades. Specialized blades were very effective. They had a design that leads to excellence at a specific task. They were simply the best for that "1" or "2" things you needed them to do. Well guess what, they NEVER were used for anything but that one thing. If I wasn't doing what they were made for then they were not used and they sat in a drawer.

Years ago I began to focus heavily on firearms. I took the same martial approach to firearms as I had with taijutsu and blades. One of the things that really struck me with firearms was a focus on K.I.S.S. (keep it simple stupid). Breaking down your equipment to what works and performs consistently with utmost reliability. Then I got big on load bearing equipment and quickly found that, unless you wanted to weigh 1000lbs and be covered in MOLLE even down to your undies and strap pouches everywhere, you better figure out what is useful and what is extra crap.

This is what brought me to the BK2. As I said in my earlier post, I chose it because I can do ANY knife task with it, and even many non-ordinarily knife tasks with it. This allows it to take the place of a hammer, pry bar, etc. etc. etc. (many examples have already been given by other posters). This simplifies my gear. The fact that it is beefy and can take more than I can dish out means that I can rely on it and not question my gear choice. The BK2 is popular because it works and continues to work. Does anything you ask of it well, PERIOD. I did not choose the BK2 as my primary knife, which it is, due to being a novice or unknowing in the world of sharpened steel....I chose it because I know enough about knives, tools, combinations, and the like to know what is a worthwhile tool and what's for show at the bbq.

 

[Shotgun]

Just seems to me that a responsible reviewer should review a knife based on its merits relative to its design, or make a good-faith effort to figure out why the design is the way it is, rather than making poorly-considered comparisons, and relying almost entirely upon pre-conceived notions prior to ever beginning the review.

The last part I agree with. A review should be done with an open mind. Nutnfancy comes to mind as being the poster child for that silliness. That being said I think he did actually use the knife and his assessment is exactly on par with my experience.

The first part I don't agree with. A reviewer should use the tool for what they need to use the tool for. It's up to you to decide if that's the scope of work that you need a knife for. I still haven't seen anything written here that contradicts anything he said other than the origin of the knife which wasn't even really the point of the article.

 

[Shotgun]

P.s.......Skandi grinds are better ?.....Really......I must have missed a meeting.........

E

For general purpose I'd have to agree that they're not better but for the scope of work he does I think it is. They're close but there are a few things a scandi grind makes easier. Plaining and feather sticking are a couple of things that come to mind. YMMV.

 

[crimsonfalcon07]

The last part I agree with. A review should be done with an open mind. Nutnfancy comes to mind as being the poster child for that silliness. That being said I think he did actually use the knife and his assessment is exactly on par with my experience.

The first part I don't agree with. A reviewer should use the tool for what they need to use the tool for. It's up to you to decide if that's the scope of work that you need a knife for. I still haven't seen anything written here that contradicts anything he said other than the origin of the knife which wasn't even really the point of the article.

Great, lets talk about the POINT of the article. Reading through the article, I STILL think it's on him. And let's be clear, that should be obvious if you really are paying attention to what he says. He specifically mentions why he got the knife: "So I decided to give the concept a fair chance" (the concept being that of the sharpened prybar), and then proceeds to say "I used each for several days around our place and in the surrounding desert, on tasks for which I’ve been using much smaller knives for tens of years." Which seems a little...off, to me. He lists out some of the mindset behind it, so he clearly has some idea to what use the sharpened prybars are intended for (e.g., not HIS usual purposes), but never actually puts it to hard use tests that are outside the box for a knife, but well within the mindset that he himself mentions. So, based on his own stated purpose for purchasing the blade in the first place, he has a RESPONSIBILITY to give it a test based on the intended design of the knife, a responsibility he then proceeds to neatly avoid. The WHOLE idea behind getting the knife in the first place was to "give the concept of a sharpened prybar a fair chance," and then he does literally nothing that's within the scope for a sharpened prybar but not for a small knife. A fair and balanced review would have tested it in ways that would have broken his beloved Helle Temagami. And yet, he doesn't even try.

And, since he seems to be used to small knives, that introduces bias as well.

You wouldn't expect someone who regularly performs tasks with a small knife to go out and be an expert with an axe, for instance. And literally every single task he's mentioned, I've seen photo evidence from folks on here that the BK2 can do those tasks, and excel at them. Take chopping, for instance. I've seen people chop with a BK2, and with other knives of that sort, and it requires a particular technique to do well. That technique doesn't seem to involve holding the handle in a standard grip like you would with a machete. You need to be smart enough to work with the balance, and the Becker handles are designed to make that easier. The fact that he couldn't do many of the tasks well doesn't mean that they cannot be done well with a BK2 (since there's copious proof indicating that every task he mentions can be done, and done well, with a BK2). That's a causal logical flaw. The obvious conclusion is that his technique and skill are lacking. He thinks he's an expert because he can use small knives, and if that's the case, he should be using a tweener, not the 2. But he's clearly not an expert in the use of the sharpened prybar style of knife, and let's face it, he needs to be in order to say that they can't perform the tasks to which he set them, especially with well-documented evidence that he's wrong, all available to a casual perusal of this subforum, among other places (and to the fact that the BK2 is one of the best selling knives in the entire lineup).

The fact is, his style of thought is just too narrow to really appreciate the BK2. He dismisses "back in the real world" without having even tried a single real world task. All he says is that he got tired of carrying it around (and it should be obvious throughout that he went into the
review" wanting to hate it. He doesn't pry open any car doors and cut seatbelts. He cuts through nothing challenging (and if you want to know what the BK2 is capable of, read this: http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/s...ting-the-BK2-to-the-test-so-you-don-t-have-to). He talks about the "more realistic survival tasks," as if the VAST majority of people would ever actually run the risk of getting lost in the wilderness. That would require them to leave the city, #1, and #2, would require them to actually have bushcraft skills. Most people would fail miserably at shelter building or snare building, no matter what knife you give them. So his "realistic tasks" are actually pretty inane, especially for his stated purpose.

The average inexperienced knife user does things like pry open metal cans (many soldiers I know, when I ask them what they used knives for, generally said things like, digging holes, prying open ammo cans, cutting into metal tins, cutting wire, etc). Very few of them actually use knives for what we would typically consider a knife related task. And, guess what. The BK2 can survive those. The smaller knives which he's so fond of, can't. Again, that's well documented. And yet, again, he tried NONE of the aforementioned daily tasks of the average knife.

He approaches it from an incredibly biased and narrow perspective, and yet claims he's trying to give the concept a fair chance. So yes. It's on him. IF he had just bought it for his normal purposes, that might be one thing, although I tend to think someone who's writing articles needs to consider more potential uses than just their normal ones. Because the information isn't for YOU, it's for other people, and again, it should be obvious that other people may have different uses than you do.

Not to mention, your entire premise there is like saying that I could buy a hammer for the purpose of dicing vegetables, and then be fully justified in demanding my money back because it didn't meet my expectations for the "use I needed to use the tool for." That makes literally no sense. Sorry. I reiterate, a reviewer has the responsibility to consider more than just himself.

 

[Bladite]

My, my.....

...

P.s.......Skandi grinds are better ?.....Really......I must have missed a meeting.........

E

i'll send you a copy of the memo from the meeting...

 

[BigBert]

Well the guy is entitled to his opinion I guess. I had a 2 and passed it on to my nephew who abuses it almost daily. He is a teenager and thinks batoning wood with a knife is the coolest thing since sliced bread. I do my share of batoning as well, but tend to use a small hatchet more for that kind of thing. With regard to Scandi grinds, I like how easily they can be sharpened with zero skill but don't think they are superior to flat grinds or sabre, at least not in my use but then again I don't carve spoons and all that.

 

[zzyzzogeton]

The reviewer, in my opinion, simply had a deadline to write something and pulled something out of a dark hole.

He went into the "review"with preconceived expectations of the BK2. He skewed the tests to produce the data he wanted and expected, again because of his preconceptions. This is an example of GIGO, (garbage in, garbage out). If you start with an improper test set, your test results are worthless.

Now, before anyone starts declaiming that I, zzyzzogeton, am a "die-hard, Becker knives can do anything better than sliced bread" type of knife user, let me put a stake in that conclusion. Until less than a month ago, I had never bought or even used a BK-anything. I had held a BK-2 1, count it, 1 time and liked the way the handle felt. That's it.

I lucked into a pile of Beckers and that started me to BEGIN to learn the capabilities and limitations of the BK-2 (as well as others). No knife is perfect for every task. No knife can do every task asked of it. You can TRY to do anything with a given knife and individual users will get varying results.

Is the BK-2 the perfect knife? No. There is no such animal.
Is the BK-2 capable of doing everything? Again, No. No knife could.

Would I WANT to clear 400 yards of fence line with a BK-2? No. But if my machete handle broke or I ran out of gas for the weedeater, I COULD use the BK2 to finish the job.

Would I WANT to use a BK2 to slice onions, dice jalapenos, trim the fat off steaks or other kitchen tasks when I had a "better tool", e.g., Kabar 1232,1233,1235,BK5,7,11,14,15,16,17, Buck 107, 118,........ NO. But I could do it if numb-nuts here FORGOT to bring the damn kitchen knife on the camping trip. Trust me I have forgotten said kitchen cutter (although not in the last 10 years since a 1232/1233 has been my EDC). Cutting tomatoes/onions with a Plumb hand ax is possible, just not very pretty.

Could any of the reviewer's other referenced knives replace a shovel? a machete? a hand ax? a pry-bar? I honestly don't know. I KNOW the BK-2 can, because I have tried to do all those things in the last month. Were the results perfect? No. But then, I wasn't using the shovel to dig a hole. I was using a knife. The same is true for all the other tasks. Best I can say is, "Yep, I could do "X" with the BK-2 if I had to."

This is where, in my non-professional reviewer position, I believe the reviewer F'd up. He tried to make the BK-2 to perform "JUST LIKE HIS PREFERRED KNIVES" for specific tasks. Just let the dumbaxx let me test HIS knives just like I would a BK-2 in performing all the NON-KNIFE tasks that might be required of a knife when you didn't have the proper tool for the job. I firmly believe in using the proper tool for the job at hand. That's why I own machetes, weedeaters, axes, hatchets, pry bars, hammers of all sorts, etc, etc, etc......... BUT..... Sometimes, you just gotta "make-do with what you got".

The BK-2 will never be a do all knife for me. I will not carry it as an EDC. It will find a home in my tool boxes.... I will permanently have one in every vehicle I own, for just in case. Why? Because I have learned that I can get by with it for most things if I don't have the "right" tool available.

One thing I will NEVER use it for - trying to remove splinters from my big toe with it. I'd make a "small wood knife" with the 2 to do that. I would want to keep my toe.