This is W&SS not "The Post Anything I Want Because I Only Read This Forum" Forum

JCavSD said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iboschi View Post
Sometimes it isn't about what you want to discuss but WHO you want to discuss it with.




I couldn't disagree more. Obviously, there are forums of a more general nature than this one. We come to bladeforums to associate with like-minded knife nuts. We come to the W&SS sub-forum to associate with like minded W&SS knife nuts. The key word is "like-minded".
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Actually, I have to agree with JCavSD on this. One of the gig problems is that taking some discussions to other more general forums, is that one loses exactly the group of "like minded" people one wants to talk to. If someone were to want to discuss, for instance, fixed blade knives for bushcraft use they would get good answers in W&SS. As soon as that discussion is moved to, say, general, the discussion will all be about other peoples favorite folders, and whether a Sebenza is better for cutting boxes than someone else's Spyderco: I know, I've seen it happen.

What on earth does cutting boxes at work have to do with bushcrafting? Why not just leave the thread in W&SS where it can be discussed by others who truly are "like minded?" It seems that you want W&SS to be only about "I saw a tree, today." There are so many other related topics that should stay in W&SS that simply won't work in one of the other forums, because the viewpoint is completely different. Those people — wonderful as they may be — who never get out in the bush, and only use their folders for cutting up lunch, or boxes, really don't have a clue as to what someone in W&S is talking about: they have no frame of reference.

Yes, I can certainly see the need for some things to be in other forums, but let's not go overboard. W&SS exists for a reason, and the reason is "like minded people."
 
Once again for those that missed it....

Threads that discuss gear that is not directly related to W&SS will be moved to Gadgets & Gear or any other appropriate forum.
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Discussing your favorite car? Moved. Discussing your bushcraft knife and how you use it in the field? Stays.

I'm not going to move every thread. I actually read the threads before I make a decision on whether to move it or not. It's not only gear threads that are the issue but threads that aren't even remotely close to be W&SS related.

Discussing your favorite fast food burger? Moved. Discussing survival food in the wild? Stays.

Can you see what I'm hinting at here?
 
JCavSD said:
Spark also comments that he's open to reasonable and specific suggestions. Probably beating a dead horse here, but considering the nature of some of the posts that have recently been moved (more similar threads to be moved soon I expect), a subforum for the W&SS community seems to make sense. I'd like to be able to post about and comment on gear and equipment, and keep it within this community. I know that this is where I'll find the type of perspective that I'm looking for. Just a thought.
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I did bring this up in the support thread that's relevant- a WSS "off topic" forum would be a good idea.

Simply put: The WSS crowd doesn't always live int he same headspace - or budget space- as the "general" and "custom" crowd. If I want actual response to a knife design, I post it here. If I want it to get 1 or 2 relatively (hrmph) nuetral comments that have nothing to do with the usage design, I post it into custom and handmade.

Similarly with gadgets and gear.

I'm all about keeping the on topic lockdown of WSS going, but can we have a subforum where I can post dog pics that other WSSrs will appreciate? (I can do this in the "around the grinder" section, after all....)
 
Ken C. said:
But you're not the one moderating the whole forum are you? You may not mind it but we do. As Esav mentioned, there is a reason for having separate forums in the first place.



If that's the case then take it to email. Stray out of W&SS every once and while and you may find that the topic you want to discuss may have already been started in the APPROPRIATE FORUM.
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Hey ken,

I think I'm pretty good about following the rules myself. Just voicing an opinion :D If that is frowned upon also, lock this baby up.
 
Ken didn't say opinions would be moved to a more appropriate forum. That's what this thread is for, to talk over a difference of opinion.

If we're talking about a knife or gear design suited for outdoor activities, it stays. If we're talking about a new knife design with no connection to the outdoors, then it will probably be moved.

For example, we have forums for knifemakers to show off a new design, complete with photos fom every angle. Now take that same knife outside and put it through a few exercises batoning or carving and it becomes a legitimate W&SS thread. Show the sheath with a firesteel loop and the whole setup attached to your regular daypack, that's W&SS.

But when people tell us they come to Bladeforums to talk with their W&SS friends about everything else in their lives besides wilderness and survival, that's where we say, Bladeforums does have other, more appropriate forums for that. And the regulars at those forums aren't bad guys either.

If every forum were to have a technical main forum and a chat daughter forum, this place would be a zoo. As it is, the manufacturer forums are more free to allow off-topic threads. And even they do draw lines.

We do have a new forum related to W&SS in Hunting & Fishing. Let's see how that works out.
 
Esav Benyamin said:
Ken didn't say opinions would be moved to a more appropriate forum. That's what this thread is for, to talk over a difference of opinion.

If we're talking about a knife or gear design suited for outdoor activities, it stays. If we're talking about a new knife design with no connection to the outdoors, then it will probably be moved.

For example, we have forums for knifemakers to show off a new design, complete with photos fom every angle. Now take that same knife outside and put it through a few exercises batoning or carving and it becomes a legitimate W&SS thread. Show the sheath with a firesteel loop and the whole setup attached to your regular daypack, that's W&SS.

But when people tell us they come to Bladeforums to talk with their W&SS friends about everything else in their lives besides wilderness and survival, that's where we say, Bladeforums does have other, more appropriate forums for that. And the regulars at those forums aren't bad guys either.

If every forum were to have a technical main forum and a chat daughter forum, this place would be a zoo. As it is, the manufacturer forums are more free to allow off-topic threads. And even they do draw lines.

We do have a new forum related to W&SS in Hunting & Fishing. Let's see how that works out.
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Thank you for being the reasonable and respectful voice of moderation, EB. Personally, I gravitate to W&SS because I have found it to be a group of nuts with whom I share a great deal. Just like our human nature to associate with like minded folks, we do the same here. In real life, I wouldn't go to a Ford dealership to get opinions about a new F-150 first, I would go to my friends. I also wouldn't just go to a Ford Motorsports meeting because of the obvious bias and I think, for some, the same thing applies here. I do understand where y'all are coming from in that it is a PITA to keep whittling away unrelated threads, but on our side, we want opinions from those who share similar interests.
 
dougo83 said:
I do understand where y'all are coming from in that it is a PITA to keep whittling away unrelated threads, but on our side, we want opinions from those who share similar interests.
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Then post in the correct forum and your peers can respond in there. Simple.
 
I understand both sides of the conversation here, but since it is somewhat one sided I will opt out in writing my position on this particular ruling. On another note, but somewhat related I would like to thank Esav (Thank You!) for his humble, yet authoritive input and moderation. It takes great patience and maturity to lasso some of us in without condescending and inflammatory enforcement.

Respectfully, Mike Laxson (MMIAM)
 
mymindisamob said:
It takes great patience and maturity to lasso some of us in without condescending and inflammatory enforcement.
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If that is a dig at me then you need to watch your step. My initial posting was to get some cooperation and in no way disrespectful to anyone and what followed was a "why do we have to do that, we're special" sort of response. I tried to play nice. Others didn't. I'm sorry that I'm not as eloquent as Esav but sometimes you have to play hard ball to get any sort of cooperation from those with the mob mentality.
 
No dig intended Ken. If I need to tell you how I feel about you, I will contact you. I am giving credit where credit is due as far as my comments regarding Esav. We have, at times and in my estimation had moderation that was condescending and inflamatory, I don't call it out publicly or disrespectfully though. That is not my job. My reference to that behavior was to further embellish Esav's favorable disposition as a moderator. As to your warning, while not being perfect I do generally watch my step. I merely posted my gratitude in this thread because I have once again witnessed great moderation skills here and wanted to give voice in a timely manner where it appeared.

Again........ respectfully, Mike
 
W&SS has got to be one of the largest and most active sub forums on BF. We have lots of people in here, and rarely have any flame wars (where'd Skammer go? :D) But it does feel like we're just hanging out with our buddies, so stuff tends to get off course sometimes. I understand the mods trying to keep it on track though, and I respect the payless, thankless job they have here. A "W&SS Lounge" area would really be cool for the hanging with buds feeling, when the woods aren't the focus. Would Spark consider it?
 
Ankar Sheng said:
What about OT threads regarding new born babies that don't involve knives, fire, or the wilderness?
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Moved unless the child was born in the woods in a makeshift hospital using a paperclip, tree bark, and a chewed piece of gum.
 
mymindisamob said:
I understand both sides of the conversation here, but since it is somewhat one sided I will opt out in writing my position on this particular ruling. On another note, but somewhat related I would like to thank Esav (Thank You!) for his humble, yet authoritive input and moderation. It takes great patience and maturity to lasso some of us in without condescending and inflammatory enforcement.

Respectfully, Mike Laxson (MMIAM)
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+1 for sure. His ability to support the decision without being condescending is much appreciated. I do not disagree with the decision, though it is a bit frustrating. Responding by basically saying "STFU and sit down" is less than helpful or necessary.
 
Ayuh. With all due respect, that's one I think detracts from BF as a whole. (moving the baby thread)

The WSS community is, for whatever reason, a community. larger than a lot of other entire forum sites, at that! Moving a new baby thread, or a deceased companion thread, out of the community space-

Look, I'm not trying to flame, not trying to argue. No fights. With all due respect, none of the the regular community moderators over the past 4 years seem to have had an issue with that. Why now?

Not everyone agrees with, understands, or is a part of the "tribe"- the WSS community. That's fine. I'm getting the feeling that we're being moderated from outside the community (partly due to some, honestly, really asinine elements of our community) - This doesn't feel good to independent minded folks. (and I'm not referencing a moderator. We have some real bubbas in here sometimes)

Bladeforums is huge. It's not humanly possible to feel a part of a community where you aren't allowed to be a "regular", but have to post everything in a different area for relative strangers to see- when the populace is in the thousands. This is, really, basic human psychology.

No one is asking for every forum to have an off topic subforum. But some areas do have one, and perhaps, in an evaluative (non binary solution set) world, WSS should, also. Obviously, practac doesn't need one, for example.

I feel like one of the moderator responses to the idea that WSS is a community boils down to - your friends aren't that important, go share with people you don't know. Yeah, that's a good way to make new friends and get broader input. And in some gadget areas I can see it (though WSS is a heavily gear and gadget oriented thing), but for a new baby announcement....

I dunno. I feel like there's some digging in of heels on both sides of the argument.
 
It seems to me that if everyone from W&SS has to go searching through all the other forums to find message threads from W&SS folks, it sorta destroys the feeling of community, doesn't it?

Are people from W&SS going to have to post little threads in W&SS saying "see my take on left-handed leaping frogs in PracTac," or something like that?

While I can certainly see the need to move some things to different forums — like the new car thing that Ken mentioned — I have a feeling that too many things that should stay in W&SS (my favorite forum, where all my friends are) will be moved to places where no one has a clue about the issues involved, who the players are, and could care less about the W&SS community.

Just my thoughts.
 
A community it may be but when the mods of your forum let every thread slide without moderation it is up to the Supers to step and make the decision. The W&SS forum members have been used to posting anything and everything for so long that when a request to get the forum back on track is made it is met with resentment and hostility. Masked insults and digs are not a good way to get what you want and I would make the request on your behalf but why bother.....seems that I'm considered an "outsider" and disrupting what you consider the norm. Your mods are part of your community but they have to actually moderate as well as participate.

We're not out to break up the forum but simply get it back on track to it's intended purpose. We are not going to be the Forum Gestapo. Obvious threads will be moved, borderline threads will be left alone for the most part unless the topic shifts. But you all need to realize that if it is not W&SS related then it has the potential to be moved. Keyword is "potential". It would be a judgement call from the Supers or W&SS mods whether it gets moved or not.

dawsonbob said:
It seems to me that if everyone from W&SS has to go searching through all the other forums to find message threads from W&SS folks, it sorta destroys the feeling of community, doesn't it?
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The last time I checked BFC as a whole is a community. Exclusion is not a good way make friends.
 
Ken C. said:
A community it may be but when the mods of your forum let every thread slide without moderation it is up to the Supers to step and make the decision. The W&SS forum members have been used to posting anything and everything for so long that when a request to get the forum back on track is made it is met with resentment and hostility. Masked insults and digs are not a good way to get what you want and I would make the request on your behalf but why bother.....seems that I'm considered an "outsider" and disrupting what you consider the norm. Your mods are part of your community but they have to actually moderate as well as participate.

We're not out to break up the forum but simply get it back on track to it's intended purpose. We are not going to be the Forum Gestapo. Obvious threads will be moved, borderline threads will be left alone for the most part unless the topic shifts. But you all need to realize that if it is not W&SS related then it has the potential to be moved. Keyword is "potential". It would be a judgement call from the Supers or W&SS mods whether it gets moved or not.



The last time I checked BFC as a whole is a community. Exclusion is not a good way make friends.
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I understand — and agree — with what you're saying, Ken. On the one hand it shouldn't be a no holds barred free for all; on the other hand no one wants a forum so restricted that they're afraid to post. One supposes that there is a happy medium somewhere but, you're right, both sides seem to be digging in their heels somewhat. I really do see your point about getting the forum back on track though; just be gentle, please.

I certainly hope your reference to "Masked insults and digs" wasn't aimed at me: that's just not my style, and I hope you didn't see it that way. I generally tend more towards humor, than anything else.

You bring up a good point about being seen as an "outsider," and I'm sure there is some of that going on. At the same time, you are a Super, and it's your job to oversee all the forums: I think most people recognize that — they're actually a pretty good group of guys.

As an aside, I think that — for the most part — we do a fairly decent job of moderating ourselves. Sure, some things do slip between the cracks, but overall we do try to keep a lid on things.

ETA: As far as Blade Forums being a community in itself, I would tend to see it more as a city, with the sub-forums like W&SS as neighborhoods. We all tend to identify with the people on our own block more than we do with those across town.
 
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Ken C. said:
A community it may be but when the mods of your forum let every thread slide without moderation it is up to the Supers to step and make the decision. The W&SS forum members have been used to posting anything and everything for so long that when a request to get the forum back on track is made it is met with resentment and hostility. Masked insults and digs are not a good way to get what you want and I would make the request on your behalf but why bother.....seems that I'm considered an "outsider" and disrupting what you consider the norm. Your mods are part of your community but they have to actually moderate as well as participate.

We're not out to break up the forum but simply get it back on track to it's intended purpose. We are not going to be the Forum Gestapo. Obvious threads will be moved, borderline threads will be left alone for the most part unless the topic shifts. But you all need to realize that if it is not W&SS related then it has the potential to be moved. Keyword is "potential". It would be a judgement call from the Supers or W&SS mods whether it gets moved or not.



The last time I checked BFC as a whole is a community. Exclusion is not a good way make friends.
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Okay, I hope that's not at me- I'm really not insulting anyone. And I'm acknowledging some issues in this. Really not trying to be insulting.

There is some feeling of moderation coming from outside- yes. It would be unrealistic for their not to be some feeling in that vein.

Our "local" mods have been having a lot of life events, which is, I imagine, part and parcel of the nature of the WSS focus :D

I do feel bad that it got this far out of hand.

Now, I obviously have no way to make changes. (and a democratically run forum would be like a democraticaly run business network. not going there) - but the tone I was reading was pretty heavy and harsh.

We've all got some adjustment to do- for example, food and cooking have always been generally included in WSS, but now there's a space for that. Might be something on topic about the survival pantry, of course.

And yes- BF as a whole is a community- but like any community of over ten thousand (15k active members) - you can't know everyone, nor be comfortable with everyone. Humans do tend to form smaller subsets. Part of our nature, I guess.

Anyway, I'm not trying to insult anyone. The tone I got out of this - especially some of the "side arguments" - has been fairly extreme. But sometimes written communication just "sounds" that way.

I will go on the record stating that I'm in complete disagreement with moving the baby thread, but I won't dispute your doing it. If that makes sense.


If there's an understanding that we do have a community and some allowance for that, I'm cool.
 
Awhile back in the ESEE forum they had a problem with off topic threads all the time, and they made an "anything goes" chat sticky for that stuff. Might help to solve the problem. It seemed to work there.
 
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