Those Chinese Knives...

Hickory n steel said:
They just flood the market with so much more crap than they do quality that it has stained their reputation for production in my eyes ( I will have to see a general rise in overall quality of a much higher percent of Chinese knives for at at least 5yrs straight before my opinion of them can be changed ) I won't spend more on a Chinese knife because that's what I think their quality is worth, as it stands right now. ( if I can get a good American made knife for 21$ why would I look to China )
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But if they didnt, people who cannot afford 100 dollar knives would have to carry a butter knife from the kitchen..Those do not have pocket clips ;).. Not everyone is looking for a sebenza quality in their edc, as price becomes a factor.
Infact, I as kinda blown away at some of the 4 dollar China knives at major retail places..
China makes some excellent stuff and some not so excellent.. But who doesn't..?

To those only wanting to buy American stuff, yes support it. But take a look to origin of country on 90% of the products you have in the house, to the clothes you wear.. You maybe in for a shock, and possibly betrayed yourself.
Buy a Chevy, Ford, and keep America rolling..Would love to, except... Ever open the hood and see majority of components and guess what.. They were not made here.. Who are you really supporting..?
When you go to Toyota dealership, do you only see exclusively Japanese sellers? Everyone in the building being Asian for that matter..? If not, you might be supporting some Americans..
People who sing quality often found buying China made tools as it will suffice for the situation.. Where's the justice there, and what is up with the double standard?
China gets the bad reputation mostly due to quality control and guess what... No one is paying for quality in that manner.
I support any knife maker from any country that appeals to me. What I do not support are the CLEAR copies, that are no where near the craftsmanship of the original.
Price will usually dictate on the quality of craftsmanship to a point, not so much the country of origin now days. To think otherwise, you are stuck in the 80-90's era as manufacturing process has improved greatly.
 
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onojoe said:
You are absolutely right we do live in a global economy, step into a Walmart and 99% of the products on the shelves are from China. But, we have seen something here in the knife community that is different. Chinese manufacturers' that sell directly to consumers for premium prices, without any US presence or support. So there is no benefit to American workers. Competition is good for the global economy, and yes imports support jobs here. But when a company does not have a US infrastructure to support quality and warranty issues, I have a hard time rationalizing that this is good for a global economy.
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You are correct. I choose not to buy those knives, even though they appear to be quality products, and I like quality knives, those companies don't offer anything I can't live without.

If I could, I would not buy anything made in China do to the communist thing, but unfortunately there are some items that are only made there. Like this computer I'm typing on right now.
 
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It's true that the majority of products contain parts sourced elsewhere. It's unavoidable. However, with quality knives, it's easier to support American manufacturing, so why not?
 
I don't like the Opinel design but, to answer your broader question, yes, as the French and Swedes pay their workers decent wages and aren't undercutting American manufacturing.
 
The knife community is a fairly small industry. Supporting manufacturers that put an emphases on innovation and quality no matter the country of origin will lead to better knives for everyone.
 
ebidis said:
Just curious, what American made knife can you get for $21?
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My tried and true buck 482 that I bought 2yrs ago at big5 was 21$ and it's all I need in a primary edc folder. ( it's lightweight,ergonomic,has comfortable thumbstud ,good solid lockup, and bucks 420hc which I like in an edc knife steel )
 
CookieRawwr said:
Well after staring at it for awhile, I might just have to get one in blackwash. I meant to get a Hinderer as my next expensive purchase, but that bladeshape has me hooked.
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I'll try and help you out with the decision. I actually own an XM24 Bowie and an XM18 3.5 Spearpoint and can actually compare the three knives head to head. In terms of materials, the Kwaiken is a lot more costly. In terms of fit and finish the Kwaiken has an action that is considerably smoother than both Hinderers and can open with no wrist movement at all every time without fail, which I cannot say for the Hinderers. Just seeing them next to each other answers the question immediately. There's a very custom/high end air about the Reate. Incredible attention to detail. The Hinderers look a little clumsy in comparison.

I'm selling both Hinderers and keeping the Kwaiken. Nothing against them, just not for me.
 
ebidis said:
Here we go again. :rolleyes: I'll never understand this statement. We live in a global economy, and trade with many other nations. If you buy Todd Begg knife, you are supporting Todd Begg, who employs American workers. To say nothing of the companies he supports who ship the product, import the product, market the product, sell the product, etc, who also employ guess what... American workers.

If everybody all at once stopped buying foreign made products, what would happen to all the American workers who earn their living with the companies that invest in, ship, import, market and sell those products. To say nothing of the American workers who are supplying the materials for the manufacture of the product. Throughout the entire process of getting any product into the consumers hands, there are many American workers involved. From the original concept, all the way down to the retailer.

Not to mention there are many products which America does not even produce. I can understand not wanting to buy products from a specific country do to political or philosophical beliefs, but to say; "I will only by products made in America to support American workers" is , in todays world, unrealistic, and next to impossible.
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I couldn't have said it better. This is how I see things as well.
 
kniferbro said:
Mine too. My first and I am very impressed. I love buying American but this knife puts a lot of USA made to shame to be frank.
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It was a day of mixed emotions when my first "premium" made in China knife was leaps and bounds superior to my dozens of USA made competition. I really couldn't believe it but I'm not going to pretend otherwise. Not like I'm getting rid of either, but it is what it is.
 
To try to apply national loyalty in a global economy is a fallacy. Just one look at the auto industry proves this:

The most "American" cars? The Honda Civic, Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, Toyota Avalon, Honda CRV, Toyota RAV4, Toyota Venza, Toyota Sequoia, Nissan Frontier, Toyota Tundra, Toyota Sienna, Honda Odyssey

The least "American" cars? Chevy Aveo, Ford Fusion, Buick Lacrosse, Chevy Equinox, GMC Terrain, Dodge Journey, Ford Expedition, Ford Ranger, Ford F-Series, Chrysler Town and Country

This is based on 2011 models and nothing has changed much since then...source: http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/How_American_is_Your_Car/

The same can be applied to many knives of Chinese origin. Buy them and you're supporting American Designers, American Custom Shops, American Steel Manufacturing, American retailers etc, etc, etc...

The only viable excuse to not consider knives of Chinese origin is to say they simply don't appeal to you...and with the many and varied designs, it really is just an excuse. This argument, from an intelligent and rational standpoint, is over.

By all means, avoid clones and copies. Avoid manufacturers who support that market. Avoid the cheap $10 Chinese knives if you want (although they're a viable option for many people), but to shun an entire industry based on geography is just plain short-sighted.
 
Hackenslash said:
To try to apply national loyalty in a global economy is a fallacy. Just one look at the auto industry proves this:

The most "American" cars? The Honda Civic, Honda Accord, Toyota Camry, Toyota Avalon, Honda CRV, Toyota RAV4, Toyota Venza, Toyota Sequoia, Nissan Frontier, Toyota Tundra, Toyota Sienna, Honda Odyssey

The least "American" cars? Chevy Aveo, Ford Fusion, Buick Lacrosse, Chevy Equinox, GMC Terrain, Dodge Journey, Ford Expedition, Ford Ranger, Ford F-Series, Chrysler Town and Country

This is based on 2011 models and nothing has changed much since then...source: http://usnews.rankingsandreviews.com/cars-trucks/How_American_is_Your_Car/

The same can be applied to many knives of Chinese origin. Buy them and you're supporting American Designers, American Custom Shops, American Steel Manufacturing, American retailers etc, etc, etc...

The only viable excuse to not consider knives of Chinese origin is to say they simply don't appeal to you...and with the many and varied designs, it really is just an excuse. This argument, from an intelligent and rational standpoint, is over.

By all means, avoid clones and copies. Avoid manufacturers who support that market. Avoid the cheap $10 Chinese knives if you want (although they're a viable option for many people), but to shun an entire industry based on geography is just plain short-sighted.
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Couldn't have said it better. The Reate Kwaiken uses American steel in an American design and sold to many different retailers including American ones. They could even be using American titanium but I'm not sure. The global economy is a fact and something we will only need to embrace more and more moving forward. "American Made" Is more often than not just a sales tool to make you buy product A over product B. I can't begin to tell you how many times I'll pick something up that reads " Made in the USA with foreign materials in a foreign box printed in a foreign country." I often wonder what they really even have to do to get the made in the USA bit. Screw something together?

Besides, can you imagine how many jobs they're supporting shipping all of that American made steel over to China and then back to America to sell in American retail stores? You'd have to spend all day thinking about buying a pack of gum if you were truly concerned with your purchase's nationality.

Not a battle for me.
 
I have no objections to buying foreign made as long as it is high quality. Anyways thanks Chris, I believe I'll sell off the Strider SMF I decided to to try and get one of these and skip the Hinderer. I definitely want to get a Shirogorov someday as well.
 
I'd love to not support the economy of a totalitarian country, but that ship has sailed. US children are drinking Chinese apple juice.

I like the some of the cheap Chinese stuff, like Sanrenmu. The 704 is so nice. Considering the Chinese make nice Sebenza copies that sell for $60, I can't see paying $400 for some other Chinese titanium framelock.

The whole point of making stuff in China is that it is cheap. Why pay US prices for a Chinese knife?
 
RX-79G said:
I'd love to not support the economy of a totalitarian country, but that ship has sailed. US children are drinking Chinese apple juice.

I like the some of the cheap Chinese stuff, like Sanrenmu. The 704 is so nice. Considering the Chinese make nice Sebenza copies that sell for $60, I can't see paying $400 for some other Chinese titanium framelock.

The whole point of making stuff in China is that it is cheap. Why pay US prices for a Chinese knife?
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A lot of those multi hundred dollar chinese midtechs would costs double, if not more in price, if it was manufactured in the usa.

I work in a production factory making baseball hats. I asked my boss why we use chinese materials, its simple. He said " if we used american made materials, we would go out of business because we would have to charge quadruple the price for a product that ends up being the same in thw end".

They can make equivalent products in terms of quality for a much better price in most instances.
 
stonproject said:
A lot of those multi hundred dollar chinese midtechs would costs double, if not more in price, if it was manufactured in the usa.

I work in a production factory making baseball hats. I asked my boss why we use chinese materials, its simple. He said " if we used american made materials, we would go out of business because we would have to charge quadruple the price for a product that ends up being the same in thw end".

They can make equivalent products in terms of quality for a much better price in most instances.
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Sure, if the retail price of goods reflected the actual cost of production. In the real market, retail prices are set based on a business model and a target market. I appreciate your experience with baseball hats, but we are talking about the equivalent of Gucci hats, not Brewers. I own a business that sells sporting goods - we price our offerings on our target market, which is upper end. The goods didn't cost more to make, but our customers perceive greater value because our products are priced like our upper end competitor's products.

A Sebenza isn't $400 because buying titanium, steel and C&C time is 6x more expensive than it is in China. It is $400 because that's what people are willing to pay for the "world's finest folder", and no one is going to believe it is the best if it is priced at $150.


I'm sure all the Reate type stuff is very nice. I'm also sure that instead of a 70% margin, the production costs give the Chinese companies closer to a 90% margin. (Those are made up example numbers, but they accurately illustrate how luxury goods are priced.)

To put it another way, if you're already willing to pay Rolls Royce prices, why would you buy the Chinese version of a Rolls Royce just to save some money? If you were concerned about money you wouldn't even have a $350 pocket knife in the first place.
 
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