Those Chinese Knives...

[CarboneOpinel]

I feel quality control and trust/respectability are key.
If I buy a Syderco Tenacious, I believe it really is the 8Cr13Mov it states. With some of the other mass Chinese makers can I be sure what the steel is?

 

[stonproject]

Sure, if the retail price of goods reflected the actual cost of production. In the real market, retail prices are set based on a business model and a target market. I appreciate your experience with baseball hats, but we are talking about the equivalent of Gucci hats, not Brewers. I own a business that sells sporting goods - we price our offerings on our target market, which is upper end. The goods didn't cost more to make, but our customers perceive greater value because our products are priced like our upper end competitor's products.

A Sebenza isn't $400 because buying titanium, steel and C&C time is 6x more expensive than it is in China. It is $400 because that's what people are willing to pay for the "world's finest folder", and no one is going to believe it is the best if it is priced at $150.


I'm sure all the Reate type stuff is very nice. I'm also sure that instead of a 70% margin, the production costs give the Chinese companies closer to a 90% margin. (Those are made up example numbers, but they accurately illustrate how luxury goods are priced.)

To put it another way, if you're already willing to pay Rolls Royce prices, why would you buy the Chinese version of a Rolls Royce just to save some money? If you were concerned about money you wouldn't even have a $350 pocket knife in the first place.

I guess what I was getting at with my quote is that, to buy the same fabric from an american manufacturer that we get from a chinese manufacturer legitimately costs substantially more, especially when were talking millions of dollars in products anually, therefore forcing the company to raise prices to compensate for $$$ spent on materials, which makes customers not as willing to pay the prices for the american product when they can get the same quality hat from a shop using chinese materials because its significantly cheaper.

Basically the same in any industry when comparing American costs vs Chinese costs

 

[RX-79G]

I guess what I was getting at with my quote is that, to buy the same fabric from an american manufacturer that we get from a chinese manufacturer legitimately costs substantially more, especially when were talking millions of dollars in products anually, therefore forcing the company to raise prices to compensate for $$$ spent on materials, which makes customers not as willing to pay the prices for the american product when they can get the same quality hat from a shop using chinese materials because its significantly cheaper.

Basically the same in any industry when comparing American costs vs Chinese costs

I understand. And I was saying that the kind of knives we are talking about don't fit that economic model because the profit margin is so large that the cost of production is a much smaller factor.

Reate could sell their knives profitably for much less money. They sell at the prices they do because it helps their sales due to the perception of quality that goes along with those prices. When you buy a $400 Chinese knife you're not getting a better knife than an American $400 one, just one that was more profitable to make and sell.

That's how luxury goods pricing works, and it has little to do with more everyday consumer items like baseball hats or tupperware where the incredible competition makes production costs and slim margins necessary.

 

[SeppukuSamurai]

I'd love to not support the economy of a totalitarian country, but that ship has sailed. US children are drinking Chinese apple juice.

I like the some of the cheap Chinese stuff, like Sanrenmu. The 704 is so nice. Considering the Chinese make nice Sebenza copies that sell for $60, I can't see paying $400 for some other Chinese titanium framelock.

The whole point of making stuff in China is that it is cheap. Why pay US prices for a Chinese knife?

My thought process on paying "US prices" for my Chinese knife:

uses an American's design and is sold with his involvement/compensation.

Superior fit and finish with premium materials. Some of the major components being imported American product.

No brainer.

 

[josephrogers]

David Deng, the owner of Reate, is a great guy and skilled craftsman. Reate knives and the Steelcraft series are incredibly well made and blow away most every other knife I've had. Also, those saying that we aren't supporting the US with Steelcraft knives... They are designed by Begg and use US steels and such. Plus, the warranty work goes to Begg, not Reate.

 

[ebidis]

David Deng, the owner of Reate, is a great guy and skilled craftsman. Reate knives and the Steelcraft series are incredibly well made and blow away most every other knife I've had. Also, those saying that we aren't supporting the US with Steelcraft knives... They are designed by Begg and use US steels and such. Plus, the warranty work goes to Begg, not Reate.

The way I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong, is that Steelcraft is Todd Begg's company. It is the brand name he started when he wanted to sell "production" versions of his knives. Reate is the company he chose to produce his knives, and they are using American made steels. So this is not just a Reate knife designed by Todd Begg. It is a Todd Begg knife, backed and warranted by Todd Begg, and manufactured by Reate.

So if that is the case, Steelcraft is an American company which is outsourcing production. Just like many other Knife companies do.

I could be wrong on this, but I don't think I am.

 

[josephrogers]

I believe you are right, but certain warranty stuff Begg Knives will send the knife back to David for him to work on and fix. Begg will fix minor stuff like stripped screws or missing screws.

 

[RX-79G]

My thought process on spending "US money" on my Chinese knife: uses an American's design and is sold with his involvement/compensation.

Superior fit and finish with premium materials. Some of the major components being imported American product.

No brainer.

If it is an American company, that's a little different than calling something a "Chinese knife". Gerber is a US company that imports stuff from China, too.

 

[ebidis]

I believe you are right, but certain warranty stuff Begg Knives will send the knife back to David for him to work on and fix. Begg will fix minor stuff like stripped screws or missing screws.

this probably is the case. However, it's still backed by an American company with a good reputation for quality.

One point about Reate knives that has been brought up is that they have no Americn presence, so people are concerned about customer service. This should not be the case with Steelcraft.

 

[Dvin211]

I feel quality control and trust/respectability are key.
If I buy a Syderco Tenacious, I believe it really is the 8Cr13Mov it states. With some of the other mass Chinese makers can I be sure what the steel is?

You can tell by doing research, reading reviews and checking out the feedback on the forums here. Makers like Kizer, Reate, Maxace and Stedemon make high quality knives and have great reviews.

 

[josephrogers]

Exactly. I have one of each finish of the Mini Bodegas. Amazing blades, I couldn't forsee any reason to needd to use the warranty in the first place! Not to mention Begg Knives has every knife go through their own quality control once they hit the shop.

 

[KoNki21]

Some Chinese companies make great knives, for example ganzo or sanremnu. Quite a few folders from these comapanies are great value. SRM 710 is like 10 dollars. I know, they rip the designs off, but anyway the build quality suprises me (Positively). Just sometimes it's not worth to buy expensive folders which are not worth the price (Flash II for example) and is just better to get a chinese one for less and be happier with it.

 

[SeppukuSamurai]

The way I understand it, correct me if I'm wrong, is that Steelcraft is Todd Begg's company. It is the brand name he started when he wanted to sell "production" versions of his knives. Reate is the company he chose to produce his knives, and they are using American made steels. So this is not just a Reate knife designed by Todd Begg. It is a Todd Begg knife, backed and warranted by Todd Begg, and manufactured by Reate.

So if that is the case, Steelcraft is an American company which is outsourcing production. Just like many other Knife companies do.

I could be wrong on this, but I don't think I am.

I believe you are right. I believe Begg will even do custom work on the Steelcraft series if you're interested in having it done. Check his site.

 

[AusLoX]

will you elaborate? she's beautiful!

This is the Todd Begg kwaiken flipper from the Steelcraft series Sun Tzu. It's about $450 and it's a production version of Todd's custom that goes for around $5,000-$7,000. If you can even get one(I'm guessing like 50 made if that)This one is more affordable and it's made by Reate Knives out of China. China makes amazing stuff since their manufacturing facilities are so advanced.

To touch on the whole USA made vs Chinese made topic...as far as quality it's top notch depending on the company. The steel used is American so they are supporting American made material companies, supporting an American knife designer, and giving us an affordable product that's on point. Pun intended.

If you want to see a comparison video check out Mindlessmark07 on YouTube and watch his comparison video of the production version vs custom.

Here is some pics(not mine) of some cool ano work on the production versions

 

[AusLoX]

I feel quality control and trust/respectability are key.
If I buy a Syderco Tenacious, I believe it really is the 8Cr13Mov it states. With some of the other mass Chinese makers can I be sure what the steel is?

You can be sure with companies like Reate and Kizer.

 

[bflying]

Well crap, I've got three Kizers that should be landing in a day or so. I hope I don't hate them as much as I did when I was loving a pass around, and two of my kids both begged for one over the option of any of the 12 zt's I have available. [emoji23].

Anyway, global we are, like it or not. US owned, US made, selling worldwide. US owned, foreign made, US corporate and dealer profits retained. Foreign owned, US made, domestic dealer profits. Foreign owned, foreign made, domestic dealers profit. Then there is the supply chain, components, transportation, marketing, etc.

Be civic, loyal, and patriotic wherever you reside in the world. But remember, we're all on this rock together. Why do I feel hippy folk song coming on? [emoji3]

 

[ebidis]

Well crap, I've got three Kizers that should be landing in a day or so. I hope I don't hate them as much as I did when I was loving a pass around, and two of my kids both begged for one over the option of any of the 12 zt's I have available. [emoji23].

Anyway, global we are, like it or not. US owned, US made, selling worldwide. US owned, foreign made, US corporate and dealer profits retained. Foreign owned, US made, domestic dealer profits. Foreign owned, foreign made, domestic dealers profit. Then there is the supply chain, components, transportation, marketing, etc.

Be civic, loyal, and patriotic wherever you reside in the world. But remember, we're all on this rock together. Why do I feel hippy folk song coming on? [emoji3]

Kumbaya Brother!

 

[stonproject]

This is the Todd Begg kwaiken flipper from the Steelcraft series Sun Tzu. It's about $450 and it's a production version of Todd's custom that goes for around $5,000-$7,000. If you can even get one(I'm guessing like 50 made if that)This one is more affordable and it's made by Reate Knives out of China. China makes amazing stuff since their manufacturing facilities are so advanced.

To touch on the whole USA made vs Chinese made topic...as far as quality it's too notch depending on the company. The steel used is American so they are supporting American made material companies, supporting an American knife designer, and giving us an affordable product that's on point. Pun intended.

If you want to see a comparison video check out Mindlessmark07 on YouTube and watch his comparison video of the production version vs custom.

Here is some pics(not mine) of some cool ano work on the production versions

Those are so beautiful. I've never spent more than 300 on a knife.... but is it blasphemy id buy this before I ever bought a sebenza?

 

[DangCat]

Bah, humbug!

I love to buy knives. However, when I look at the offerings of the Chinese brands listed, all I see in my mind are the same blanks being passed around China. The majority of the blades , to me anyway, are all the same sub 0.160" thickness clones or creations. Some have single screw clips that people complain about loosening. Are these REALLY S35VN , or just 440C that nobody knows the difference. I could say the same for American knives but we tend to have a lot more credibility.

 

[deltaboy]

I own 3 Moras , 4 Opinels and 3 Rough Riders along with over 2 Dozen made in the USA. Rough Riders to me is the best bang for my buck. I buy what I like and what works.