Those Chinese Knives...

Sometimes you can't stop industrial progress. Most of the country currently is geared towards the creation of a mass consumption economy. They're the kings at learning how to build industrial manufacturing to scale. One of the companies that I used to work for handled management consulting for China Gerui they're a Nasdaq listed Company under the ticker "CHOP".

In the last 5 years they had a a ton of capital expenditures buying the latest and greatest in heat treat technology, ovens etc... to move into specialized manufacturing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IExY08lpjw0

This isn't knife related but metal related and the video gives you an idea of how China can transition from making cheap knockoff to the great stuff that they put out for other manufacturers as well as stuff like Kizer and Reate. With steel prices the way they are these days on a global scale they have little issue in using imported steels. Here is their corporate presentation all examples of a steel industry in China that has been the end result of the building boom that took place in the last decade over there.
http://www.geruigroup.com/images/June 2014 CHOP PPT.pdf
 
cchu518 said:
Sometimes you can't stop industrial progress. Most of the country currently is geared towards the creation of a mass consumption economy. They're the kings at learning how to build industrial manufacturing to scale. One of the companies that I used to work for handled management consulting for China Gerui they're a Nasdaq listed Company under the ticker "CHOP".

In the last 5 years they had a a ton of capital expenditures buying the latest and greatest in heat treat technology, ovens etc... to move into specialized manufacturing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IExY08lpjw0

This isn't knife related but metal related and the video gives you an idea of how China can transition from making cheap knockoff to the great stuff that they put out for other manufacturers as well as stuff like Kizer and Reate. With steel prices the way they are these days on a global scale they have little issue in using imported steels. Here is their corporate presentation all examples of a steel industry in China that has been the end result of the building boom that took place in the last decade over there.
http://www.geruigroup.com/images/June 2014 CHOP PPT.pdf
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I agree 8 years ago I wouldn't have bought a Rough Rider anymore than I would a Frost.
Changes in China made her a player in the affordable EDC department.
 
CarboneOpinel said:
I feel quality control and trust/respectability are key.
If I buy a Syderco Tenacious, I believe it really is the 8Cr13Mov it states. With some of the other mass Chinese makers can I be sure what the steel is?
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for the 8cr13mov yes, since that steel is made in china, so knife manufacture in china can get it darn cheap. but if it says s35vn on aliexpress, then its probably fake. however, for kizer/reate who want make a name for themselves that's selling on knifecenter, bladhq etc , its guranntee to have whatever steel they said it is (maybe different heat treatment). no reason for kizer to lose their reputation by claim s35v when its not.
 
^ Great point! Rough Rider is a perfect example. 440a at its worst is the worst of the worst, steel that rolls easily, won't hold and edge.

At it's best with a solid heat treat it's one of the best budget steels out there that is highly rust resistant which holds a decent regular edc edge on a budget. The fact that Rough Rider is producing solid 440a knives at their crazy price point is just insane. Don't get me wrong I'm a huge fan of Case, Northwoods and American brands, but Rough Rider has been a gateway to traditionals for me so in a way me buying Rough Riders has exposed me to buying American as well. In any case I generally have no issues with legitimate knives that are Made in China or anywhere else so long as they are solid knives.

I use Cutco at home, not because I bought the sets but because my wife sold them in college. I can tell you that in the decade that I have had these 440a knives because of their solid heat treat I haven't once had to sharpen the serrated knives which I use during holidays and the chef knive which I treat like crap (I throw it in the dishwasher) and use almost daily and have sharpened regularly for 10 years, the knife has been as good as any of my past $100-$150 chef knives. No complaints. The Rough Rider steels have impressed me with their "okay" edge holding ability. By and large I'm not doing heavy cutting with these knives, more like cutting apples and general duties the same that I would with my Northwoords knives or Northfield etc... and they are just as good. It doesn't stop me from buying a $100 USA made slipjoint but I'm not going to put down the awesome $10 RR either.
 
I too have been very impressed with Reate and Kizer, with Reate winning the head to head battle. Great products at great value pricing. Obviously there's a draw towards American products, but you have to recognize quality when it's there. I give major props to these companies for bucking the trend and pushing for suck high QC standards.
 
This thread manages to avoid the rather large Gorilla, sitting in the corner.

China is making these better knives because we keep paying them to do it. We don't charge Chinese sellers the appropriate shipping charges, tariffs, etc. to keep us on a level playing field. That's why you can order FIFTY button batteries for your tiny flashlight, on Ebay, for $1.50 , SHIPPED to the states. It would cost you $12.00 at Walmart for TWO of the same batteries. So, yaaaaayyyyyy and hoooooraaay, china makes some nice knives now. Turn a blind eye and keep on buying them. Meanwhile, the U.S. Post office is subsidizing their success. Global economy is a cool thought, but not when we are taking a beating.

I can't keep my money stateside very well, but I try my best. I buy Penn/ Deka batteries for the truck, I buy Snap-on when I can and not Williams. I bought a ZT, but I sure ain't buying a Reate or Kizer.
 
DangCat said:
This thread manages to avoid the rather large Gorilla, sitting in the corner.

China is making these better knives because we keep paying them to do it. We don't charge Chinese sellers the appropriate shipping charges, tariffs, etc. to keep us on a level playing field. That's why you can order FIFTY button batteries for your tiny flashlight, on Ebay, for $1.50 , SHIPPED to the states. It would cost you $12.00 at Walmart for TWO of the same batteries. So, yaaaaayyyyyy and hoooooraaay, china makes some nice knives now. Turn a blind eye and keep on buying them. Meanwhile, the U.S. Post office is subsidizing their success. Global economy is a cool thought, but not when we are taking a beating.

I can't keep my money stateside very well, but I try my best. I buy Penn/ Deka batteries for the truck, I buy Snap-on when I can and not Williams. I bought a ZT, but I sure ain't buying a Reate or Kizer.
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Please take a course in macroeconomics from your local community college. We may take a beating in the knife industry, but gain massively in other industries. If the Chinese make more money, they buy more of our goods as well, which is win win. Unless you prefer everybody else to live in poverty conditions except for us maybe. The Chinese single handled laced Buick from going under, they account for most of their sales. This applies to Chrysler as well to a lesser extent.
 
DangCat said:
Global economy is a cool thought, but not when we are taking a beating.

.
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Yes.
As long as we are the one PROVIDING the beating, then all is good.

We need to stop buying things from them and they need to stop buying things from us.
Let's level this playing field already.
 
DangCat said:
This thread manages to avoid the rather large Gorilla, sitting in the corner.

China is making these better knives because we keep paying them to do it. We don't charge Chinese sellers the appropriate shipping charges, tariffs, etc. to keep us on a level playing field. That's why you can order FIFTY button batteries for your tiny flashlight, on Ebay, for $1.50 , SHIPPED to the states. It would cost you $12.00 at Walmart for TWO of the same batteries. So, yaaaaayyyyyy and hoooooraaay, china makes some nice knives now. Turn a blind eye and keep on buying them. Meanwhile, the U.S. Post office is subsidizing their success. Global economy is a cool thought, but not when we are taking a beating.

I can't keep my money stateside very well, but I try my best. I buy Penn/ Deka batteries for the truck, I buy Snap-on when I can and not Williams. I bought a ZT, but I sure ain't buying a Reate or Kizer.
Click to expand...

a lot of china made currently has capacity issues, meaning they produce more than existing demand. particular the government own or large factories, in order to keep factory up, unemployment rate low, and economy number up, they continue to produce even there is not enough customers. and these product become cheaper and cheaper, because even if they sell it below actual production cost, its still better then collect dust in warehouse.

though I doubt kizer/reate do the same, because they are small private business vs wasteful government business. kizer/reate is no different than other small business in US, of course they can take advantage of lower living cost in china, hence lower wages compare to US, that saving will eventually pass down to consumers.
 
robgmn said:
Yes.
As long as we are the one PROVIDING the beating, then all is good.

We need to stop buying things from them and they need to stop buying things from us.
Let's level this playing field already.
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protectionism never work, we export more to china in 2015 then Europe. currently china is 3rd largest import of US goods, behind mexico/Canada, for the simple reason Canada/mexico are our neighbor so its easy to export there.
 
DangCat said:
Meanwhile, the U.S. Post office is subsidizing their success.
I bought a ZT, but I sure ain't buying a Reate or Kizer.
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Hey, no fair using "U.S. Post Office" and "success" in the same sentence without warning me to swallow my coffee first.

This has nothing to do with postal rates or tariffs. It has to do with manufacturing costs, government regulation, labor cost and the common dilemma that is facing all brick and mortar stores in the internet era.

Hopefully your ZT didn't use German steel or Russian designers ;)
 
weaponwh said:
protectionism never work, we export more to china in 2015 then Europe. currently china is 3rd largest import of US goods, behind mexico/Canada, for the simple reason Canada/mexico are our neighbor so its easy to export there.
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I was being a wee bit sarcastic with my post.
 
weaponwh said:
protectionism never work, we export more to china in 2015 then Europe. currently china is 3rd largest import of US goods, behind mexico/Canada, for the simple reason Canada/mexico are our neighbor so its easy to export there.
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One of our primary exports is cardboard to China. It is used to box up the stuff we buy from them.

That is not an economic success story. It's like trying to make money by selling gas to your chauffeur.
 
DangCat said:
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...-year-to-help-you-buy-cheap-stuff-from-china/

Old news seen anywhere
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Again, China by circumstance, Multinational by intent. Don't blame this on Chinese knives, blame it on a government that cedes our legislative autonomy to the UN. Please try to see past the first layer of the onion.

Look, buy the knives you want to buy. I support you in that right. Your decision to not purchase certain knives (or widgets, or dress shirts, or batteries) is valid for you, but still an emotional decision. Those emotions are great in a political rant thread, but don't really fit in a logical discussion of the merits of various knives.
 
Hackenslash said:
Again, China by circumstance, Multinational by intent. Don't blame this on Chinese knives, blame it on a government that cedes our legislative autonomy to the UN. Please try to see past the first layer of the onion.

Look, buy the knives you want to buy. I support you in that right. Your decision to not purchase certain knives (or widgets, or dress shirts, or batteries) is valid for you, but still an emotional decision. Those emotions are great in a political rant thread, but don't really fit in a logical discussion of the merits of various knives.
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Good point. Just remember where you got your widget when the fur flies.
 
Here here. This subject always seems to derail. More knife discussion less politics. If you don't like or won't buy a Chinese manufactured knife that's OK too. It's irrespective of a lot of quality pieces that are coming out there. I did a double take the first time I got a Kizer in a trade. If you didn't know the brand you would swear it was a quality knife.

The first week I was expecting the sky to fall trying to figure out what the catch was. I ultimately accepted that it was a great knife. The grind on the s35v blade was incredible.
 
cchu518 said:
Here here. This subject always seems to derail. More knife discussion less politics. If you don't like or won't buy a Chinese manufactured knife that's OK too. It's irrespective of a lot of quality pieces that are coming out there. I did a double take the first time I got a Kizer in a trade. If you didn't know the brand you would swear it was a quality knife.

The first week I was expecting the sky to fall trying to figure out what the catch was. I ultimately accepted that it was a great knife. The grind on the s35v blade was incredible.
Click to expand...

Meaning that it's actually not a quality knife? :confused:
 
ebidis said:
Meaning that it's actually not a quality knife? :confused:
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Sorry I meant to say that you would swear it was a USA made knife but then I thought about it and ive had my share of crappy USA made knives, lol.

This was right when Kizer just came out and that whole Britton knifegate situation happened. The sentiment was for a short while, I couldn't believe a Chinese brand was putting out a knife as good as it was.
 
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cchu518 said:
Sorry I meant to say that you would swear it was a USA made knife but then I thought about it and ive had my share of crappy USA made knives, lol.

This was right when Kizer just came out and that while Britton knifegate situation happened. The sentiment was for a short while I couldn't believe a Chinese brand was putting out a knife as good as it was.
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I remember that. We all (including me) assumed the knives HAD to have been made by Britton because they were too nice to have come from China :o
 
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