Thoughts on authorized dealers raising GEC prices above the minimum sale price.

"Fair price" to me means the maximum I can get. The buyer won't pay it unless s/he thinks it is fair too.
 
I did not ask what "fair price" means. Instead, I very specifically asked what does the word "fair" mean as you employ it in the term "fair price."

You answered (twice now) that fair means maximum. It's still a free country (sort of) - abuse the English language however you want. At least now we all know that is exactly what you're doing.

Anyway, you have diverted this discussion too far from the topic, and regretably I have abetted that. But since the issue is now settled, I'm done with it and suggest we return to the discussion of GEC dealer prices (unless you're admitting to being a GEC dealer, which would make this discussion relevant).
 
While I’m certainly bummed I will not be buying GEC currently at the inflated secondary prices, I am glad GEC remains able to be profitable selling quality traditional knives at the 100 dollar mark.

If/when the fervor passes I’ll happily begin buying them again.

As they are a luxury/artisan item I can wait. If they never stabilize I won’t buy. Not a real big deal for me personally.

Collectors are driving the demand, which is what it is. If GEC ever finds the ability to ramp up higher production numbers and still maintain the high level of quality...that’s great. If not, that’s ok too.

This would be a neat time to see another manufacturer step up and begin making their own knives to compete. There certainly is a demand at the moment. How long it lasts is the question.
 
I rarely even check GEC out anymore,they priced me out -I was fortunate and got some of the earlier models a few years ago,which I think were definitely nicer looking models then what is being put out lately.
 
The Amazing Virginian said:
Yes, we all had fifth grade economics. :rolleyes:

But there were a ton of assumptions built in to those supply and demand curves. Do you remember any of them? Pretty much none of them apply here.

What they were trying to teach you with those supply and demand curves was how a free market generates effficiencies. Supply and demand curves intersect at a price point and a quantity. If that price point is much greater than the cost to produce, it generates huge, above-market-average, profits. Then other folks will see those huge profits and enter the market with new supply to capture some of those profits. The new supply from the new vendors will alter the supply curve to drive the intersect point down in price and up in quantity until an equilibrium is established at an intersect point where profits are in line with those for other products, and overall the markets operate at efficient levels generating the highest supply at the lowest prices that will sustain reasonable profits. The marvel of the free market!

Pretty much none of that is happening here or could happen here. This is not a "knife market." It's a "GEC knife market." And there is only one vendor and the supply curve is inelastic.

They really should stop teaching economics in K-12 because they don't do it very well and it seemingly inevitably triggers the Dunning-Kruger effect.
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I am not sure that this is completely accurate. If another company starts producing a knife af similar quality for a more reasonable price, will people not buy it because it doesn't come in a GEC tube? Could be I guess but it seems unlikely. As I have mentioned a few times, people seem convinced that this fad will never end, but they usually do.
 
Triton said:
I am not sure that this is completely accurate. If another company starts producing a knife af similar quality for a more reasonable price, will people not buy it because it doesn't come in a GEC tube? Could be I guess but it seems unlikely. As I have mentioned a few times, people seem convinced that this fad will never end, but they usually do.
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"If another company starts producing a knife af similar quality for a more reasonable price, will people not buy it because it doesn't come in a GEC tube?"

Correct. The market is not pricing them according to their quality as tools anymore. IMO. they have moved beyond the market for tools and into the realm of collectibles. In fact, pretty much all of the GEC knives I see for sale on The Bay are sold in the Collectible Folding Knives category. I do not believe folks are mostly buying them for their quality as tools anymore, and I believe that few of these GEC knives going for $250 or $300 or more (e.g., $700 2019 BF knives!!!) are going to see a lot of pocket time. Folks are buying them and collecting them. As GEC knives. In their tubes. Whether Viper or Lionsteel or Case or even a custom maker makes a similar or better quality knife for a lower price is pretty much irrelevant. At least that's the way it seems to me.
 
I can't believe this thread is 13 pages long. That's 13 pages that isn't mucking up the "Let's talk about GEC" thread, lol. :D

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The capitalist, free market, talk related to GEC is not quite accurate. This has become much closer to a gray market. And a gray market operating seemingly with the blessing of GEC.

If you watch the GEC threads and eBay closely you’ll notice there is a significant number of each new drop being sold before they ever hit the dealer shelves. Collectors with “connections” buy every combination of pattern before they hit the street. Dealers take them straight to eBay - selling through eBay, not their “storefront”. Many of the flippers have so much quality they clearly are not getting lucky clicking emails when new drops are announced- they have an inside track.

For most normal GEC enthusiasts, if they want a knife, they have to purchase via this “unauthorized dealer” network.

if this follows the wrist watch gray market pattern, the counterfeiters and warranty rejections for items purchased at a non-authorized dealer could soon follow.
 
I disagree, if you've been following GEC threads most of those early eBay sales are dealers and others were purchased from dealers because your not seeing the knives listed because of reserves or they were listed and gone in seconds. For example I never saw or got notifications from some dealers I watch with the TC Barlow, so they were probably gone with reserves or gone in seconds if they were listed.
 
This situation will correct itself once GEC increases production.

Hinderer knives had this same issue for years, where even dealers were flipping the knives. It resolved once Rick increased production.

In the end some GEC dealers may come to regret partaking in the flipping. Myself and others won't soon forget which dealers continued to sell their allotments at a fair price, and which ones took advantage of their customers.
 
MolokaiRider said:
Collectors are driving the demand, which is what it is. If GEC ever finds the ability to ramp up higher production numbers and still maintain the high level of quality...that’s great. If not, that’s ok too.
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Yup -- this is because a market requires a buyer and a seller. This thread seems to only want to focus on the latter without acknowledging the former.

The Amazing Virginian said:
"If another company starts producing a knife af similar quality for a more reasonable price, will people not buy it because it doesn't come in a GEC tube?"

Correct. The market is not pricing them according to their quality as tools anymore. IMO. they have moved beyond the market for tools and into the realm of collectibles.
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Agreed. As collectibles, you have to understand that scarcity is the primary driver of demand (and price.) No one is paying $700 for an $80 knife and then running into the backyard to baton with it. They are most likely keeping it in a safe / display case.

skx013k2 said:
The capitalist, free market, talk related to GEC is not quite accurate. This has become much closer to a gray market. And a gray market operating seemingly with the blessing of GEC.
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Not really though. As far as I am aware, knife companies understand that there is a secondary market for their products. I doubt dealers would run out and sell at inflated prices under a different name if it could impact their primary relationship with GEC. I'm not saying this doesn't happen on a limited scale but not en masse. It simply wouldn't be worth the risk.

knife_fan said:
This situation will correct itself once GEC increases production.

Hinderer knives had this same issue for years, where even dealers were flipping the knives. It resolved once Rick increased production.

In the end some GEC dealers may come to regret partaking in the flipping. Myself and others won't soon forget which dealers continued to sell their allotments at a fair price, and which ones took advantage of their customers.
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That or GEC can start selling direct to consumer and keep that sweet margin for themselves. They could sell limited models DTC and the "normal" stock to dealers. This could be quite lucrative for them.
 
The Amazing Virginian said:
Correct. The market is not pricing them according to their quality as tools anymore. IMO. they have moved beyond the market for tools and into the realm of collectibles.
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That could be, in which case they are beanie babies, and it's even more of a self solving problem. All those tube collectors are likely to be in for a shock.
 
Triton said:
That could be, in which case they are beanie babies, and it's even more of a self solving problem. All those tube collectors are likely to be in for a shock.
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It certainly could go that way.

Or it could go the way of Loveless knives which used to sell for $300 or so and now sell for $4000 and up. And never go down.

When you get into collectibles, I think it's difficult to know which markets will totally collapse (Beanie Babies) and which markets will hold their value . . . seemingly forever (Rolex watches).
 
ooitzoo said:
Not really though. As far as I am aware, knife companies understand that there is a secondary market for their products. I doubt dealers would run out and sell at inflated prices under a different name if it could impact their primary relationship with GEC. I'm not saying this doesn't happen on a limited scale but not en masse. It simply wouldn't be worth the risk.
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What % of individual knives from the recent drops are going direct to the normal consumer as opposed to being listed directly by the retailer (or their surrogate) on eBay? I believe the latter is becoming quite prominent.

The reason I said it’s being done with GECs blessing is exactly what you mention above - GEC doesn’t appear to be doing anything to dealers who are engaging in this behavior. If authorized Rolex dealers were selling their inventory directly (or through a surrogate) on eBay to the highest bidder, they wouldn’t be authorized Rolex dealers much longer.
 
Triton said:
That could be, in which case they are beanie babies, and it's even more of a self solving problem. All those tube collectors are likely to be in for a shock.
Click to expand...
The Amazing Virginian said:
"If another company starts producing a knife af similar quality for a more reasonable price, will people not buy it because it doesn't come in a GEC tube?"

Correct. The market is not pricing them according to their quality as tools anymore. IMO. they have moved beyond the market for tools and into the realm of collectibles. In fact, pretty much all of the GEC knives I see for sale on The Bay are sold in the Collectible Folding Knives category. I do not believe folks are mostly buying them for their quality as tools anymore, and I believe that few of these GEC knives going for $250 or $300 or more (e.g., $700 2019 BF knives!!!) are going to see a lot of pocket time. Folks are buying them and collecting them. As GEC knives. In their tubes. Whether Viper or Lionsteel or Case or even a custom maker makes a similar or better quality knife for a lower price is pretty much irrelevant. At least that's the way it seems to me.
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I agree with this. And that’s probably what’s turning off a number of us who want to view GECs as old school, user knives.
 
I understand GEC not getting in the way of dealers who choose to charge MSRP for their knives instead of MAP. I won't support those dealers, but they are allowed to do it. What I don't get is why GEC is turning a blind eye to the dealers flipping knives on eBay for far above MSRP.
 
The Amazing Virginian said:
I did not ask what "fair price" means. Instead, I very specifically asked what does the word "fair" mean as you employ it in the term "fair price."

You answered (twice now) that fair means maximum. It's still a free country (sort of) - abuse the English language however you want. At least now we all know that is exactly what you're doing.

Anyway, you have diverted this discussion too far from the topic, and regretably I have abetted that. But since the issue is now settled, I'm done with it and suggest we return to the discussion of GEC dealer prices (unless you're admitting to being a GEC dealer, which would make this discussion relevant).
Click to expand...


You can use Word Hippo or the dictionary to look up the word "fair".

You are a parser. We all know that is exactly what you are.

Anyway, you have diverted this discussion too far from the topic. But since the issue is now settled, I'm done with it and suggest we return to the discussion of GEC dealer prices.
 
I wonder how many of the secondary "flippers" are really members of this collecting community and are using the profits to finance their personal collection? Profits they take from the rest of us. The reason they are so angry is because the dealers are cutting into their profit.
 
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