Thoughts on buying Chinese knives

I dont have a problem cirtisising China or my own country. The fact that china uses firing squad execution is well known. So is the fact that they control media. Google "chinese oppresion" and restrict the hits to the last year. Maybe your government isnt telling you everything they do. I also pointed out that my country and in fact all countries are flawed, maybe you missed it. The difference is freedom. You said that the reforms in China had made it a democracy if not an american one. I had to disagree.

Sleepy all my inflamitory statements are aimed at the government and I do not apologise for them. The truth is that the 1% in control in china is not representetive of the populace and the average person has zero chance of raising there situation to that of the 1%. In america it is easy to make money. If you invest the time and do some research there is little reason you could not make 50k a year. Or you might end up like Bill Gates. You could wind up sleeping in a gutter but would probably hold a large portion of the responsibilty for that. Like my views or not I think the comunist government of china holds its people in check and I dont think that is a thing we should support.

I am very critical of my own government and think that if we preach intervension we should have stepped into many situations, or not get involved in any. Again there is many double standards in polotics. I still support the notion that democracy is the greater of two evils as it leaves the power in the hands of the people (also its biggest weakness as people just vote for the person who lowers taxes or sides with them religously). Despite its problems the left and right wing tend to unintentionally keep each other in check while most of us reside in the middle.

What in my qouted section is false? I know for a fact websites, books, and songs get banned in China, so everytihng I said was a fact is indeed a fact. Google it for thousands of articles on specific books songs and other media banned by the chinese government.

It is not socialism I have a problem with although it has serious ideological flaws. Notice I am not bad mouthing Canada for high taxes to pay for health care. They also do not control there populace with threats of violence.
 
BigJimSlade - My point in bringing up the weath gap in this country was not to disparage America, nor do I take the freedoms I enjoy in this country lightly. To the contrary. I think we are actually in agreement for the most part with regard to the level of opportunities here vs there. However, I again return to my initial concern: sewing the seeds of hatred. Why was it Samuel Johnson called patriotism the last refuge of a scoundrel? Was he saying all patriotism is worthy of contempt? I don't think so.

Patriotism can represent something to aspire to, something that reveals the best in us. I cannot think of anything more worthy of honor than the sacrifices made by the men and women who protect this nation with their lives. BUT, when patriotism is used to appeal to the lowest common denominator it is simply being employed as a tool to control the rabble. It doesn't get any more base than appealing to HATE or FEAR. Inflammatory comments such as yours only serve to stoke those flames. If everyone jumped in on the bash China bandwagon, do you think the fact that the GOVERNMENT NOT THE PEOPLE was the focus of the original argument would be remembered? I don't think so. I think it'd be more rah rah F*** the pinkos lets get those Red Bastards and send them back to the stone age. I doubt I'll add any more to this thread, but I'll say it one more time. Want to make a difference? Don't spend an extra 30 seconds searching for the "Made in" label at the store, spend a few minutes to write your reps.
 
I do not condone hate toawrds any people in general or even towards a specific one. I believe very strongly in voting with your dollar. I have tried to make it clear that I have nothing against chinese culture or people and on the whole admire there history. I do not know how many people in China would change things or speak out against the government if given the chance, nor how many like the idea of comunism. But I know that I do not like the actions of the government there. As has been pointed out before in this thread the workers do not go home with more money due to more sales. Also I have said that we all buy chinese goods but knife companies have been sucesfull selling american made models at higher prices. When I say chinese goods are cheap due to the goverment setup I am not bieng racist, I am giving an honest opinion that alot of people dont want to hear. Its like telling someone what veal is while they are eating it, they dont want to hear it, imo (no I'm not campaigning against veal). Take my thoughts with a grain of salt if you want but dont confuse my dislike for a government for hate. We all have to choose our own battles. I am active in my local/national voting and with the NRA, I am a label reader, I spend more for american goods and I write my repsresentitives about issues I care about. I believe it takes active citizens for democracy to work well.

edit: I also would liek to say that your point about people forgeting the discusion is about the government is well taken. I did try to refference the government though and never said anything about the populace or culture itself. I will stop posting in this thread as well, I do not think that all american will avoid chinese goods when possible, some of us will however. I just dont like bieng told that I am without ground for my stance.
 
Fair enough, but going back to reply #141 (al-Quaeda manufacture) can you see the connection to hate?

As I've said many times, I agree with many of your sentiments and appreciate the ones in your last post. I never felt your perspective was baseless, I simply disagreed with some of your points particularly the ones that were most likely to incite. I think the one point we are both in wholehearted agreement is: "I believe it takes active citizens for democracy to work well." :thumbup: Works for me, man. Peace.
 
Every few months it is nice to come back to this thread and repeat the question....

How many of you that are so against buying a knife made in China ( and I do understand your position ) shop and buy things at Wal Mart ?
Nearly everything WM sells is made in the people's republic or a similiar country.
Your PC you used to type your response was made there too , as was many of the parts in your "American made" vehicle that has all those American flag stickers on it ( stickers were made in China...)
The moniter you are reading my response on , was most likely made in China.

So forth and so on.

A decade or so ago I would agreed with many of you , out of pure stubborness , now though what can you do ?

I think it is swell that there are still Americans making fine tools such as knives , I wish things were different all the way around like they used to be where Americans made most of thier own products ( proudly I might add )

So , what messed that up ? What changed American from the premier manufacturer on this planet to a country that buys most of its goods from overseas ?

How many of you are in a union ?? ;)

Give me heat for the above statement but it is true , look at our history and you will see why.

All that said , I own some darn nicely made knives that were made in China and some that were made here in America and some that were made in France and Japan too.
 
At the risk of taking this into political.

China has 1 trillion is US government bonds, you're already working indirectly for the chinese by paying taxes that pay or will pay the bonds. They've recently said they are going to seek a higher returns. I wouldn't be surprised if they form a private buyout firm to take public companies private. Many US citizens will be working directly for china soon.
 
sleepyhead said:
Fair enough, but going back to reply #141 (al-Quaeda manufacture) can you see the connection to hate?

As I've said many times, I agree with many of your sentiments and appreciate the ones in your last post. I never felt your perspective was baseless, I simply disagreed with some of your points particularly the ones that were most likely to incite. I think the one point we are both in wholehearted agreement is: "I believe it takes active citizens for democracy to work well." :thumbup: Works for me, man. Peace.
Click to expand...

I understand how extreme the alqueda remark was, however I do believe people actively support such hipocracy. We aernt buying Cuban goods because they cant offer us dirt cheap goods of reasonable quality (IMO). My point was merely that dirt cheap prices dont condone the actions of the country. Not that China was equal in nature to a terrorist group. I apologise for any misunderstanding. Also sleepyhead, I never felt you personaly told me I was basless, just a poster or two earlier in the thread. Glad we could finsd some common ground, there always is with humans just hard to see at times.
 
kevral said:
And the US doesn't ban books or censor songs?
Click to expand...

If you mean banned form public schools and libraries then yes. If you mean making it illegal to sell or own then no, we dont. As a matter fo fact you can even get the books at some libraries on baned book week. The purpose of this is to limit acess to books such as "The archanists cookbook" to youth. they can still go buy them, but I understand the public library not needing books on improvised bombs. If you mean they dont allow swear words on the radio then yes, if you mean you cant go get the album in the store with full lyrics, then no we do not.
 
I don't have any "Rose Colored Glasses" to look through. I know China is our enemy. Too bad others are so easily led.
 
I bought a Benchmade Vex, it is my home EDC. I have also bought the Buck and Schrade Chinese versions. I also had a Kershaw Echo made in China. I have seen the desert ironwood Schrade slippies made in China and they are pretty ugly IMHO. The Bucks were pretty well put together, the regular Schrades are okay, but don't even compare to the original 34OT's I had. The Echo was a great knife, but I got rid of it only because it was made in China. Same for the Bucks. In retrospect, that was a stupid idea, I should have kept them.
 
Juggler2 said:
I don't have any "Rose Colored Glasses" to look through. I know China is our enemy. Too bad others are so easily led.
Click to expand...

You can't just make a comment like that and not elaborate. From a historical standpoint China has been raped, ravaged, and pillaged many times over. It hasn't exactly expanded aggressively, nor can I see it choosing to in the near future.

Now why do you think China is the "enemy"?
 
Some interesting and semi-bizarre reading here...some of it is utter nonsense. The fact is this: the American populace WILL purchase products made in China. The quality of knives coming out of the far-east has steadily improved over the years, and will continue to do so. Eventually, there will be no difference. At that point, the cost factor wins out. As we speak, the balance is shifting. They said the 4 minute mile would never be broken. Watch and see.
 
DaveH said:
At the risk of taking this into political.

China has 1 trillion is US government bonds, you're already working indirectly for the chinese by paying taxes that pay or will pay the bonds. They've recently said they are going to seek a higher returns. I wouldn't be surprised if they form a private buyout firm to take public companies private. Many US citizens will be working directly for china soon.
Click to expand...
seriously, no
 
DaveH said:
At the risk of taking this into political.

China has 1 trillion is US government bonds, you're already working indirectly for the chinese by paying taxes that pay or will pay the bonds. They've recently said they are going to seek a higher returns. I wouldn't be surprised if they form a private buyout firm to take public companies private. Many US citizens will be working directly for china soon.
Click to expand...

hardheart said:
seriously, no
Click to expand...


Weeellll, the Chinese have already bought the Thinkpad division of IBM. All former employees now work for China. They tried to buy UNOCAL, but the US gov said, "no". DaveH may have a point.

Although this it is not just China that is buying up US companies. I deal with a lot of chemical companies. 25 years ago they were all American owned. Now they are French, German, or English owned. Even if we don't work for the Chinese, we won't be working for Americans.
 
I was actually commenting on the taxes to pay for bonds, but I of course did not clarify. My bad.
 
So what on earth are your facts? In your post I quoted, you said, "The fact is that you can come here and say that, the chinese cannot. They canot even own a book that disagrees with there government or hear a song that is inapropraite." Both these "facts" are false.

I said, "... But I do believe reformed socialist regime is the best choice for China at present. On one hand, the government is doing very well; on the other hand, revolution is so expensive that our nation cannot afford another one any more." and "China is developing its own socialism, which is supposed by many people to lead to democracy (not American way of democracy though);" I'd like to clarify something. I meant that the reformed socialism in China WILL lead to democracy, not that it HAD made democracy.

Your "truth" (I underlined it) about the 1% in the second paragraph is also completely false. Look at the members of Politburo Standing Committee of the Communist Party of China, the most powerful persons nowadays in China. Most of them were born and bred by common families, which surely is not the 1% in control as you said. But since you define things loosely, I don't know how you change this time. If you say what the government says about the leaders is not true. Let me give you an example around me. My elder cousin was born in a remote and impoverished village where most residents are ethnic minorities. He was no way a 1% person at the beginning. But now, he is kind of. Though he is young, he is the chief of an important governmental organization. For thousands years, in Chinese culture and society, education has been served as a pipe, though which people of lower social ranks have the chance to reach the top.

I admire your courage to criticize countries, including yours. But it is more reasonable to refer to unbiased resources to make sure that what you say about China is not so false. Claiming "facts" or "truth" which are actually false seriously impairs your credibility.

BigJimSlade said:
I dont have a problem cirtisising China or my own country. The fact that china uses firing squad execution is well known. So is the fact that they control media. Google "chinese oppresion" and restrict the hits to the last year. Maybe your government isnt telling you everything they do. I also pointed out that my country and in fact all countries are flawed, maybe you missed it. The difference is freedom. You said that the reforms in China had made it a democracy if not an american one. I had to disagree.

Sleepy all my inflamitory statements are aimed at the government and I do not apologise for them. The truth is that the 1% in control in china is not representetive of the populace and the average person haszero chance of raising there situation to that of the 1%. In america it is easy to make money. If you invest the time and do some research there is little reason you could not make 50k a year. Or you might end up like Bill Gates. You could wind up sleeping in a gutter but would probably hold a large portion of the responsibilty for that. Like my views or not I think the comunist government of china holds its people in check and I dont think that is a thing we should support.

I am very critical of my own government and think that if we preach intervension we should have stepped into many situations, or not get involved in any. Again there is many double standards in polotics. I still support the notion that democracy is the greater of two evils as it leaves the power in the hands of the people (also its biggest weakness as people just vote for the person who lowers taxes or sides with them religously). Despite its problems the left and right wing tend to unintentionally keep each other in check while most of us reside in the middle.

What in my qouted section is false? I know for a fact websites, books, and songs get banned in China, so everytihng I said was a fact is indeed a fact. Google it for thousands of articles on specific books songs and other media banned by the chinese government.

It is not socialism I have a problem with although it has serious ideological flaws. Notice I am not bad mouthing Canada for high taxes to pay for health care. They also do not control there populace with threats of violence.
Click to expand...
 
What you said was "The fact is that you can come here and say that, the chinese cannot. They canot even own a book that disagrees with there government or hear a song that is inapropraite."

Putting what you said above together with what you said below helps see the difference. The former is expressed in such an extreme way that if we find one and only one counter example, it will be false. In face, Chinese CAN come here and say what they want to; many Chinese read and possess books censored by the government. Actually there are very few books labeled as illegal. As I know, about 1 book every year during the last couple of years. But even if a book officially becomes illegal, you can easily find it on some Chinese website. For example, a book called "Wo de Youpai Licheng" was forbidden by the government last year, but I recently found hundreds websites in China having it.

So much information about China propagated via the WWW is false. If you want to know the whole country only via the website, it is not a good idea.

Governmental control over the media is a complicated issue. But I'd say most countries control the media. The difference is that some do so awkwardly and others sophisticatedly.

It is true that China still has tons of problems. As someone said previously, "China has been raped, ravaged, and pillaged many times over". The nightmare ended just dozens years ago. Remember how many years it took to build the democracy in a country like USA.

BigJimSlade said:
What in my qouted section is false? I know for a fact websites, books, and songs get banned in China, so everytihng I said was a fact is indeed a fact. Google it for thousands of articles on specific books songs and other media banned by the chinese government.
Click to expand...
 
yuchang said:
So much information about China propagated via the WWW is false. If you want to know the whole country only via the website, it is not a good idea.
Click to expand...

Yes. I find that its probably a good idea to visit a country before judging it. Also, as previously mentioned, China seems to be in a transitional state not unlike the industrial revolutions undergone by Western civilizations. As China adopts more capitalistic values, it seems to loosen its grip on the population in terms of rights and censorship.

Another thing that bothers me is this whole us against them mindset. If China is doing better, it must mean the US is being hurt and as a result China is the enemy. Not to mention that there are people that seriously believe China is suddenly going to decide to take over the world (disturbing to say the least, as this kind of paranoid thinking breeds nationalism and hate).
 
I have been to China, studied over 200 teas from the country and know how to use google. I dont believe the major human rights groups would think of there sites as "propaganda". I do not give credibility to random information pages on any subject. It does not take much to research to find out how credible a known source is. If the BBC reports on several books banned by the chinese government, unless I am unaware of some problems between China and England, I do not asume it is falsley propogated lies. But in truth when it comes to sites like the BBC and amnetsy international I dont usually feel the need to research there sources. This may be a poor assumption on my part. It strikes me that the employees of groups such as amnesty international do a hard ugly job for little to no credit and poor pay for there level of education and international diplomacy skills. I wouldnt be quick to call them the liars and assume the chinese government is feeding its people the straight story. Again, the posibility exists that I am incorrect. You may be allowed to come here and say positive things about your government but can you openly critisize them and suggest a new party come to power? Also, are you of the opinion that your government does not censor and ban media? If so, I think you are the only one. Also it does not matter that the controlling people of the communist party werent born into it. I never said the problem with communism is that its run by an aristocracy. That wouldnt even make sense. Obvioulsy ther common man coming to power was the whole point. However the claim and image that communism wants to give off is that all are equal under its rule, when in fact an extremely small portion of its populace has any say in its policies (hence numbers and not social class are the limiting factor). Does your elder cousin have any say in the creation of policy, or does he follow orders? If he makes the policy how many people are in simmmilar positions? I admire your love of your country, but if you had problems with our government I would suugest the same thing to you. Vote with your dollar but it would have little affect since our government isnt in conrtol of industry. If you feel China should stay the course with its current government, that is not really something I can argue with you. But I can say I do not support comunist governments if at all possible. I dont jump into threads about chinese knives and bash them but this thread was about that very topic. I will not post again, I have nothing against you or your people sir. Only a specific style of government.

Also I do not believe that China doing well will hurt the U.S. or that they seek to take us over. Shipping jobs overseas to any country is bad for our country, but i was speaking more about companies that had not produced in China starting to do so.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top