Thoughts on buying Chinese knives

There was a disgusting article in Blade this month with Sal and the editor telling me to shut up about china and get used to it. That article marked my last spyderco purchase. This is a country that is the biggest violator of human rights on the planet. They ran over there own children with tanks for speaking there mind. I do not have to get used to chinese made knives and I will never buy them. China may have cleaned up its image in the factories to fool business men, bu tthe country hasnt changed. They would kill half the populace to ramain comunist just as they did when Moa came to power. The slick veneer of the latest place to make goods makes me sick. Mark my words in a few years the majority of knives form these brands will be made in China and only a few models will be made in the U.S. if any. I dont care if you think The poeple of China are not to be held responsible for the government actions, because when you manufacture in that country you tell them that the way they do business is OK with the rest of the world. We send our armed forces to bring freedom from opression then pay china to opress its people and buy up its communist made goods. How bout Alqueda manufacture, I bet its dirt cheap in those holes.

CHINESE KNIVES ARE CHEAP BECAUSE 99% OF THE POPULACE IS CONTROLLED BY 1% OF THE PEOPLE! If you are ok with that then why save the Iraqis, Viatnamese or koreans from the same fate as the chinese workers have to suffer.
 
BigJimSlade said:
There was a disgusting article in Blade this month with Sal and the editor telling me to shut up about china and get used to it. That article marked my last spyderco purchase. This is a country that is the biggest violator of human rights on the planet. They ran over there own children with tanks for speaking there mind. I do not have to get used to chinese made knives and I will never buy them. China may have cleaned up its image in the factories to fool business men, bu tthe country hasnt changed. They would kill half the populace to ramain comunist just as they did when Moa came to power. The slick veneer of the latest place to make goods makes me sick. Mark my words in a few years the majority of knives form these brands will be made in China and only a few models will be made in the U.S. if any. I dont care if you think The poeple of China are not to be held responsible for the government actions, because when you manufacture in that country you tell them that the way they do business is OK with the rest of the world. We send our armed forces to bring freedom from opression then pay china to opress its people and buy up its communist made goods. How bout Alqueda manufacture, I bet its dirt cheap in those holes.

CHINESE KNIVES ARE CHEAP BECAUSE 99% OF THE POPULACE IS CONTROLLED BY 1% OF THE PEOPLE! If you are ok with that then why save the Iraqis, Viatnamese or koreans from the same fate as the chinese workers have to suffer.
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I totally agree with you on a lot of points. However, it is nearly impossible for any of us to buy non chinese goods. In fact the computer you are using is probably 95% chinese made. Secondly, our high standards of living are only possible because we exploit third world countries. So you can blame the communists, however, it is us that runs the economy of the word since the west does control 99 % of the worlds wealth. Sad but true.
 
Hi BigJimSlade,

I'm sorry you took that to be a "disgusting article". I don't think you should "shut up". My comments aren't a sales pich. They're a "wake-up-call". Don't shoot the messenger.

Just look around. It's pretty hard not to buy stuff made in China. In Europe, Country of origin is not required. All of the products made in China don't say China. Europeans have no idea where their products come from.

And it's not "in a few years" as you mentioned, it's now.

You are fortunate to live in a country where country of origin is required on products. If you bother to look, you can find out most of the time.

It's not just knives, although I believe all of the major knife companies are already building in China. We were just slower than the others. go into any of the major chains and look closely. TV,s Cell phones, toys, etc.

We try to buy American every time we buy, I think you should buy American, but it's gertting harder.

We NEED American manufacturing. I applaud our American knife companies for maintaining their US factrories: Buck, Gerber, Kershaw, Leatherman, Benchmade, SOG, & others, but even our American knife companies are bringing in product from China.

We have our plant in Golden, and we're increasing US production. But we can't make a knife in Golden and sell it for $30.

Even the Taiwan knife companies are setting up plants or working with plants in China.

But in the end, it will depend on American buyers. If you are going to buy knives for $30 - $50, they will more than likely be made in China.

sal

------------------------------------------------

"There seems to be an amazing connection between what people do and what happens to them".
 
Amen, Sal!

One way for all of the people who have posted here against "buying Chinese made knives" (I'm one of them) to get our point across is simply not to be cheap and settle for less, to do some research, and to exclusively buy American made! Heck, Kershaw is making it really easy. Just look at the very decent prices on some of their newer, American made offerings, like the Junkyard Dogs, the E.T., and the Groove. Spyderco is making it easy as well, just look at the $39, American made, S30V Native. As far as I see it, the only way for us knifenuts to keep manufacturers building quality knives here in the USA is for us to actually buy them! If these companies actually wanted us, the discriminating knife buyers, to buy their Chinese made offerings, I don't think they'd be offering the incredible value they are on their American made models!

My $.02,
3G
 
Sal Glesser said:
In Europe, Country of origin is not required. All of the products made in China don't say China. Europeans have no idea where their products come from.
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From what I can tell, that's a misunderstanding.

European-made goods do not require a more specific marking than "Made in Europe" as long as they're made in Europe. If they're produced outside of Europe, they're marked with country of origin, if they're produced inside they're either marked with the specific country or with "Made in Europe".

On every single item I would bother to look, I can find either a specific country of origin or the (rather rare) generic "Made in Europe".
 
Chinese people are great people, and the ones I know have become great friends. I don't trust nor like the chinese govt. I perfer american products and will buy over chinese made anytime. Problem is that many items are made in china, and people buy them because of the price. Also china has priced out america made items to cost and making a profit. I urge Americans to buy American when you can.
 
Oh I forgot I own no CHINESE made knives. Twaiwan-two, swiss made-4, usa-24 and growing! Kitchen knives all usa Lamson Sharp made in Mass or Taxachusetts.LOL
 
Sal I agree that you cant sell a 30 dolar knife made in Japan or America. Geuss what, you didnt build Spyderco selling $30 knives to my knowledge. Also the fact you cannot avoid chinese purchases is true if not annoying. However I will always pay more for something made in a country that doesnt kill student that are peacfully assembled.

As far as I know both Spyderco and Benchmade were doing OK without giving an option in the 30 dollar range (if I an wrong I appologise). If I wanted a $30 chinese knife I could have bought one last year but instead I went to manufacturers that use what I would see as "better countries of manufacture" (including the spydercos and BM's I bought). When I did overseas manufacture I made a point to visit the factories in question as I am shure you did as well. While what you see at the factory makes you feel at home I have to remember that the workers aernt even allowed to critisize there own government let alone have any say in the polotics that control there very lives. No one wants to answer that part of my post. You use them because they are cheap and if they abuse the whole populace what the difference?

From what I see, both your company and benchmade moved some production to China to "tap an unused market" (my words) for your company. While in a business sense I can respect this, if you are telling me you had to start making and selling chinese knives to make it.... I would bet thats what bankers would have told you when you started the company. Spyderco and Benchmade both proved that you can make and sell a knife with a 60-120 dollar price. Now I see them both saying you dont have to spend that kind of money becuase a souless human assembley line will turn them out for $30.00. If this is the inevitable future as you point out why not cease Japanese and American production now and save money? Obviously there is little point to the rest of your line when $30 knives are now an indispendable part of the "upscale" knife business.

So in short I dont buy the... we had to make knives in China, look everyone else makes goods there argument. I honestly believe Spyder and BM could have mantained there reps and lines without it. Unlike the average person you have the first hand ability to give jobs to countries, I do not like your decision on this one. If you, the man knife buyers have ceom to trust, are telling people "just buy a $30-50 knife made in china" I'm shure they will. I always thought you would want them to think the rest of your product was worth more than that. If they dont thin a knife is worth over $30, do you really need them as a loyal customer?
 
another question is-when the chinese money is finally brought up to value-and nothing is made in america anymore-what will the true cost be?

i want a spyderwrench-but i refuse to buy one made in china-
still trying to get a american one off ebay-
 
Id also like to point out that both companies I have mentioned have obviously lost some customers that were real "knife people" from the tone of this post. If you gain 100 new "could care less about knives in general" customers and lose 30 "dyed in the wool" knife people do you think you will gain or lose money over a 5 year period? I can tell you that the people who will only spring for a Byrd would not care if your company sticks around, they will just buy another $30 chinese knife.
 
rosconey2 said:
another question is-when the chinese money is finally brought up to value-and nothing is made in america anymore-what will the true cost be?

i want a spyderwrench-but i refuse to buy one made in china-
still trying to get a american one off ebay-
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The second great depression. People in this Country have blinders on. We already gave away all our manufacture and industrial jobs now the technical ones are leaving to. Had any American tech support lately?
 
shecky said:
BigJimSlade: What a bunch of sanctimonious BS.
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Think what you want, thats what opinions are for. To bad you didnt actually have anything to say or I might be able to discuss it. What a funny idea, discussing ideas on a forum... maybe I am on to something.
also from dictionary.com
"making a hypocritical show of religious devotion, piety, righteousness, etc.: They resented his sanctimonious comments on immorality in America."
None of my comments had anything to do with religion, unless you think mandated state religion as they have in china constitutes my argument, it does not.

If you want to ignore the fact that this country kills people for talking with a firring squad and then sends there family a bill for the execution, go ahead. I would rather not. How would you like it if after you child was killed in college by your own government you got a bill in the mail for the dammage caused to the square by there tanks? Dont forget that if you get mad and speak up about it they will kill you to. $30 just doesnt seem like a deal for me after pondering that. It seems not many care past there pocket book, but it is spending without thought thta has caused manufacture to become the beast it is.
 
OK.

You should shut up and get used to China's bigger manufacturing capability. Because it isn't going to change anytime soon.

You should be kissing China's butt for financing America's debt... and America's crusades in the Middle East.

As you say, "CHINESE KNIVES ARE CHEAP BECAUSE 99% OF THE POPULACE IS CONTROLLED BY 1% OF THE PEOPLE!" The really fantastic thing about this is that American consumers AND Chinese workers both benefit from this setup. Americans get better and more products at lower prices, Chinese get higher standard of living. Giving up trade with China would mean higher prices and fewer choices for American consumers, and harder times for the Chinese worker. Making trade contingent on your standard of governance effectively means no trade at all. You're starting to sound more like some wild eyed commie. Wagging your finger at Glesser for being a successful capitalist only adds nails to your coffin.
 
I'm really torn on this subject. Sal seems like a great guy, and benchmade and spyderco knives have always been top notch, so I really want to give out their lower end brand a try. There's also the FACT that much of what I own is Chinese made; however, I'd much rather support American work, or atleast the work of those whom I support outside of just knives. In something that I have real options and a choice on, I'd take an American made item over just about anywhere else, then Japanese/European, and then Taiwanese. I really like the Byrd Wrench and Cara Cara, but their origin puts them at the very bottom of my priorities list :( .
 
shecky said:
OK.

The really fantastic thing about this is that American consumers AND Chinese workers both benefit from this setup. Americans get better and more products at lower prices, Chinese get higher standard of living. Giving up trade with China would mean higher prices and fewer choices for American consumers, and harder times for the Chinese worker.
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Actually, the way the Chinese government works at the moment, the standard of living DOESN'T go up. The workers get payed what the government doesn't take away. If more money is made, more money gets taken away. By buying lots of Chinese products, you aren't doing ANYTHING helpful to the workers, and instead are supporting the government.

I will grant you what you said about making money off of the Chinese workers being very American and very profitable. Capitalism for the win... in moderation
 
shecky said:
OK.

You should shut up and get used to China's bigger manufacturing capability. Because it isn't going to change anytime soon.

You should be kissing China's butt for financing America's debt... and America's crusades in the Middle East.

As you say, "CHINESE KNIVES ARE CHEAP BECAUSE 99% OF THE POPULACE IS CONTROLLED BY 1% OF THE PEOPLE!" The really fantastic thing about this is that American consumers AND Chinese workers both benefit from this setup. Americans get better and more products at lower prices, Chinese get higher standard of living. Giving up trade with China would mean higher prices and fewer choices for American consumers, and harder times for the Chinese worker. Making trade contingent on your standard of governance effectively means no trade at all. You're starting to sound more like some wild eyed commie. Wagging your finger at Glesser for being a successful capitalist only adds nails to your coffin.
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I do not think we should have gone billions in to debt to give Hally Burton a contract that they didnt even have to bid for even though the Vice President had just recieved a 8 million dollar severance package from them, but thats another story.

You seem to be happy that american can raise ther quality of living by a government oppressing billions of peoples freedom. Long live freedom! But only for us.

Your point seems to be "who cares what china does or how its government works, how dare you critisize it". I find this to be laughable. I have every right not only to critisize such governments but so do the people that live there. Better living conditions could also be obtained by political and financial pressure. Instead, we encourage China to continue business as usual and for manufactures to rush there in droves. What is your rational behind this? My rational is simple, as a consumer you vote with your wallet. As a manufacturer you play a bigger role.

If Spyderco wants to go chinese then so be it. However I assume Sal comes here to hear things people have to say and to keep his finger on "the pulse". I would hope he listens to all views and at the end of the day will decide his business choices via his own mind and concious. If he is scared to hear from his customers that his decision to munufacture in China will affect our support of him ( I doubt he is), then this forum is not a good place to hang out.

Calling me a wild eyed communist for supporting the capitolist ideal of comsumer control of products is really funny. Not quite as funny as you using a religous insult to comment on my views of nationalism.
 
BigJimSlade said:
The second great depression. People in this Country have blinders on. We already gave away all our manufacture and industrial jobs now the technical ones are leaving to. Had any American tech support lately?
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I agree with that quote, ever called support on your credit card...it goes to india. Is the profit and to please stockerholders more important than keeping America strong.
 
Hi Kevral,

Perhaps. I'll check again on my next trip. Although I've looked in all of the countries in which I've traveled. I've also had distributors ask me to leave off the country of origin for certain countries. I will admit that I've not yet been to Norway.

Hi BigJim.

I'll not dispute there is much truth in what you say, but there are also areas in which we disagree, which is also ok.

One of the beauties of both America and internet forums.

Hey Peter,

You are not alone in your dilemma. I think most involved in this discussiion feel some of that. I know I do. Dealers and Distributors are seeking lower cost goods because they sell better. Period.

When your knife is passed over for anothers at 1/3 or 1/4 the price, they're in the store and you are not.

sal
 
There is a reason why things are made in China, becaue the cost is much lower. I'll like to ask everyone here to look at the keyboard they are typing on as well as the mouse. I will bet that at least 80% of what everyone is typing on is made In China. I'm sure that many of us like to puchase products such as Microsoft hardware as well as Logitech products, we consider that these names mean quality products. Yet, they are manufactured in China.

Just a thought for everyone. Just because it has "Made in China" written on it, doesn't mean it is horrible quality. Look at the Japanese 50 years back, people laughed at the products built in Japan, now Japan is known as one of the TOP quality products. Lets take a look at the well known company "Coach". Most, if not their whole product line is now made in China, but yet it still sells for so much money. If people are going to be sticking to the "Made is USA" brand and settle for nothing less, than wouldn't people not have clothing to wear?

Just for kicks as well, what kind of car do you people drive? I know that not everyone here drives an American brand car. We consider luxury cars such as BMW and Benz as one of the top notch products and yet they are not a USA brand, but yet why are there not as many luxury or top notch cars made in the US? I do not see the USA making a car to compete with the Enzo or Bentley.



Just because it doesn't say "Made in the good ole USA" doesn't mean it isn't a quailty product. Have a great day everyone and keep an eye out for what I mentioned above. You'll be amazed at what is made here now a days.
 
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