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That is a great response to the issues Nick. When I read your first post I thought that you were being a "jerk". Then I went and looked at the WIP threads you were referring to.
There is a lot of unknown steel questions asked here and every time they are told to buy good steel. Some listen, and some think that buying a new mower blade is good steel. The mower blade guys are the ones that will not make another knife. The fella that bought good steel will find out the fun and work involved and if nothing else will make a few knives just for him and his family. this is the path I started down. I lurked and read here for two years before I got a membership and started making knives. I actually went through and read all the stickies, and looked at the WIP from the past. It was easy to tell who knew what they were doing and who did not. I know alot of what I know now from just reading what was posted here and from doing and making my own mistakes along the way. I do not do anything new or different in my knifemaking so therefor I have no need or reason to post a WIP or tutorial.

I am interpreting what you said to be "hey, slow down, read, and try to learn from seeing before you pass what you know/do as fact".

Example:
I met a young man, probably 15, at a show a couple weeks ago. I talked with him and his dad awhile and found out he was doing things very much the wrong way. I told him some books to read and to join this forum to help his learning curve. He proceeded to tell me basically he knew what he was doing and did not need any help. I did not try to push the help anymore and as they walked away I heard his dad lecturing him about respecting others and that he did not know it all.

Some people just have their minds made up and there is no helping them, and others will listen and learn and blossom.
 
My take on your question is that there is an excitement that is present during the building of the first few knives that diminishes to a degree over time. Although a maker’s passion often increases over time, the shear excitement about actually making a knife can wear off to a degree. Also the more you learn about the craft the more you realize how much there is to learn. You don’t necessarily know this on your first knife build so coupled with your the excitement, a wip seems like a great idea. I don’t dislike newbe wips but I don’t usually take the time to read all of them or read them as in dept as a more experienced makers post.

I think it is also really popular in our society to update people about less than exciting things on a regular basis. I don’t have a twitter account or post facebook updates because I cannot believe that hundreds of people are interested or need to be informed of my latest meal or how my day at work was. However due to the popularity of these two sites, I feel that I am in the minority.
 
There is a business who primary criteria for hiring new employees (for a specific job classification) is that they have a college degree. It doesn't matter what the degree is in. their GPA isn't important. The reasoning is that they have accomplished something. The business will train them beyond that point.

A lot of WIPs are statements of accomplishments. I think the new maker should post their accomplishment. Good for them. Does it work the way they wanted it to? If they want to make another, how can they make it better?
 
NickWheeler said:
Second- CLEARLY, I am a snobby, elitist prick. I mean, shoot, just look at my avatar and you can see it written all over my face! :eek:
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Is that you on the left? :rolleyes:

Do any of you remember when B.Goode was a newbie in here? He asked a lot of questions, and did a lot of stuff wrong, but he turned out pretty good. A well-respected member of our community. I am of the opinion that newbies need patience and positive feedback from the rest of us. Just when you think you have seen something a million times, it could be that million and one more time to give you (us... anyone here) a stunning revelation that could flip upside-down what we do with knives now. Never too old to learn, never too old to give.
 
I apologize for even bringing this up. While my sentiments have been echoed by many of my knife maker friends offline... I either didn't articulate myself very well, or I am just too old school for the current group in shop talk.

Carry on. :)
 
I understood what you meant Nick! And I am still going to post up my WIP's :D
 
NickWheeler said:
So the whole point of my thread in the first place, is that I wish a whole bunch of the forum members would SLOW DOWN----do more reading, more hands on work, learning, studying, experimenting, and put less effort into using the keyboard and digital camera to be an instant knife maker. Especially considering the long term impact it has on the forum.


If you guys that have been a member for a year and think I'm such a jerk for posting this, can explain to me how any of this is mean, degrading, non-supportive, dream-crushing, etc.... I would really like for you to explain it to me.
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I have been reading this thread and the little voice inside my head keeps saying "BOB, DON'T REPY, YOU WILL SOUND LIKE AN A$$"... but my fingers won't listen. :rolleyes: Nick, I think you are dead on with everything you said in all of your posts in this thread. While I really do enjoy WIP, I get disappointed at times when I open one up and it isn't what I expected. Part of it is my issue, where I assume I am going to pick up jewels of wisdom and learnings, and that hasn't been the case much recently. I am not saying that I haven't learned tons from reading and understanding what other makers have done (both in WIPs and just general posts) because I have, but I have come to expect WIPs to be tutorials and as of late it has been more of the "hey, check out my first, second or third knife documentary". Along with the "what kind of steel is this peice of grey metal I found" and the "does oak make a good knife handle" threads, the topics do tend to drive me away from spending time in the "Bladesmith- Q&A" forum. I have seen how this forum has changed since I joined, but that's OK as things in life always changes. I am all for new people learning how to make knives, we were all there, so if these things help them , great... but it will effect who spends time in this forum.

Regardless of how anyone feels philosophically about 1st, 2nd, or 100th knife WIP, what you document lives posthumously after you post. If you are posting on how you build knives, but your process is sub-par or your equipment consists of only files, sandpaper, and angle grinder, you need to ask yourself a question... "If I plan to sell a knife to a customer for a couple hundred dollars, do I want him/ her to see that I didn't really have the right equipment or that I wasn't really sure that I knew what I was doing?" Perception is pretty important, and if I was going to spend a bunch of money on a custom knife, I would want think the person knows EXACTLY what they are doing and that the knife is perfect (I know that isn't true, but I feel that is what people want to believe when they buy a knife from a custom maker). A person might not be planning on selling the ones in the early WIP's, but those WIP's live electronically... and could come back to haunt that person in the future.
 
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Bentley is about 165 pounds, Oliver is the little one--- he's only like 159 pounds ;) :)

They actually don't eat a whole lot more than an adult lab eats. Still gets spendy with two of them. Oliver actually does look kind of little in the pic above, but in this one you can see he's not exactly small.... ;)

DSCN5518.jpgDSCN4909.jpg

As you can imagine, we have to be careful of black bear hunters around here.
 
NickWheeler said:
I apologize for even bringing this up. While my sentiments have been echoed by many of my knife maker friends offline... I either didn't articulate myself very well, or I am just too old school for the current group in shop talk.

Carry on. :)
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My grandmother used to have a saying: Right is right if no one is right, and wrong is wrong if everyone is wrong.

Just because the "cool new crowd" might have their opinions, it doesn't mean they're right. I appreciate the time that the experienced makers on here have given to the newer guys, either by directly answering questions, or indirectly by posting tutorials and WIP's. And I don't feel you need to cave in to pressure or perception to withdraw your comments, Nick. I think it was a good discussion.

I understand that some of the new guys that show up want to have their hand held through the making of their first knife. And I understand that they want the first knife to be perfect. Every couple of months a guy shows up with a "Look at my first knife" post and it looks like most maker's 100th. I get that, there is a lot of pressure to perform.

I may sound like a crotchety old fart by saying this, but a lot of guys need to just get the balls to walk away from the computer, go make a knife, and make a bunch of mistakes. Just go make a knife, use the heck out of it, think about what you learned, THEN come back and talk about it.
 
Yes, those dogs are quite large!!!! Wow! But, you are still a bad, bad man and Santa Claus has you down for either a bag of switches or a very nice lump of coal....your choice.;)
 
Look at those big ol' pups! Give em a scratchin for me Nick!:D

This thread looks like its turning into a WIP in and of itself!:p
 
Big Chris said:
The mower blade guys are the ones that will not make another knife.
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This is a great post, but I think that this statement is not entirely accurate. I started with a used lawnmower blade, found that I loved making knives, and bought eight feet of 1084. I have made 6 knives already. I'm just nit picking though, generally that statement is correct.
 
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NStricker said:
My grandmother used to have a saying: Right is right if no one is right, and wrong is wrong if everyone is wrong.

Just because the "cool new crowd" might have their opinions, it doesn't mean they're right. I appreciate the time that the experienced makers on here have given to the newer guys, either by directly answering questions, or indirectly by posting tutorials and WIP's. And I don't feel you need to cave in to pressure or perception to withdraw your comments, Nick. I think it was a good discussion.

I understand that some of the new guys that show up want to have their hand held through the making of their first knife. And I understand that they want the first knife to be perfect. Every couple of months a guy shows up with a "Look at my first knife" post and it looks like most maker's 100th. I get that, there is a lot of pressure to perform.

I may sound like a crotchety old fart by saying this, but a lot of guys need to just get the balls to walk away from the computer, go make a knife, and make a bunch of mistakes. Just go make a knife, use the heck out of it, think about what you learned, THEN come back and talk about it.
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This is exactly what should be going on. Get to work and stop the show and tell.
 
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