Ti framelocks - a longstanding fad, or the new standard?

[goldie]

Most of the knives i bought in the last year or two happened to be framelocks,i also love the axis lock,its much easier to unlock quick & close being a lefty.The only thing i hate about framelocks is on some occasions if the bar is too strong it tends to push the blade offcenter when closed,or the lockup on some can be later than others;thats the biggest issue these days,the lock up %; early,50% ect.im guilty of that big time.hey i cant accept a 400.00 knife with a lock that goes almost to the other side.its rare but ive seen em...

 

[RamZar]

From my perspective, I will say they are a small genre category, that has a financial ceiling (low, watch your head ) attached to them. There are some specialized brands that the majority of the sales are caught up in Ti FL's, but big picture, they are overall an exotic small dollar category that grab a lot of industry headlines.

What or which set of knives in the original post are you referring to?

 

[Comeuppance]

Most of the knives i bought in the last year or two happened to be framelocks,i also love the axis lock,its much easier to unlock quick & close being a lefty.The only thing i hate about framelocks is on some occasions if the bar is too strong it tends to push the blade offcenter when closed,or the lockup on some can be later than others;thats the biggest issue these days,the lock up %; early,50% ect.im guilty of that big time.hey i cant accept a 400.00 knife with a lock that goes almost to the other side.its rare but ive seen em...

Newer Sebenzas do that, it seems. Aye, I like some early lockup and will admit to having passed on a number of knives due to late lockup.

Heck, if someone posts a sale or trade of a liner / frame lock knife and shows everything but doesn't show the lockup, I immediately assume something is wrong with it.

 

[stabman]

In my opinion a frame lock seems like it is easier to make than a lock back and a liner lock.

This makes zero sense.
The mechanics of a frame-lock and a liner lock are the exact same.

 

[ToddM]

I'd like to think it's a fad, but I figured when BM came out with the Axis lock that new improved lock designs would replace the liner/frame locks and it has not happened yet, I had hoped the compression/bolt/etc. locks would encourage the same, but it has not happened. For whatever reason people generally still equate frame locks with high quality and custom goodness. To me it's just an area where knife people are not that concerned with function. Ti handles are slippery when wet, conductive, cold/hot, and there's no reliable way to open most frame lock knives without putting pressure on the lock bar which means the opening tension is different depending on which hand you are opening with.

Beyond that it's almost every day we see posts about lock rock, bad lockups, lock bar tension too high/low, detents not working properly etc. etc. all related to the liner/frame lock design. Even the most expensive mid-tech knives can't get it right on a highly consistent basis.

On the plus side, it seems most do not fail, even if they have poor quality control.

 

[Fred Sanford]

This makes zero sense.
The mechanics of a frame-lock and a liner lock are the exact same.

Maybe you should think about it a bit longer then.

To make a liner lock knife you have to drill and tap the liners and put a scale on the locking side. I feel like a frame lock is essentially an unfinished wide liner lock. Thus.....easier to make.

 

[stabman]

Maybe you should think about it a bit longer then.

No need.
I've made knives.
Putting an extra scale on is child's play.
It is, quite frankly, the easiest part of making a knife.

Perhaps you should make some, and then you'd see the truth of that.

 

[Fred Sanford]

No need.
I've made knives.
Putting an extra scale on is child's play.
It is, quite frankly, the easiest part of making a knife.

Perhaps you should make some, and then you'd see the truth of that.

You need to calm down bro. Get worked up about nothing much? Dang. Instead of adding to this thread you just criticize. Great job.

And no.....I wouldn't se the truth of that. I would see that there are still additional steps needed which would cost money in the long run for a big company. I'm talking about companies that make thousands of knives, not 10.

 

[BellaBlades]

I feel the a framelock is the Standard these days. Will I put it on my folder all the time or at first. I am not sure. But that is what people look for.
I went to the East Coast show this weekend. I swear. All of the newest and best folders were framelocks in different variations. The fancier knives were often liner locks. But that is easily the main competition. It was very intimidating seeing all of the gorgeous work that is done.
There is alot to live up to when i get my knives out there. One can only try if its a passion.
The handle work, inlays and finishes were what set them apart. Almost every frame/liner lock I saw was nearly perfectly executed. The main issue was a weak spring in some. Which is an easy fix.
Matt

 

[JNewell]

Well, considering these knives are already decades old, I think they're here to stay, and I think "fad" and "new" are just plain wrong words.

 

[Sonnydaze]

I'm a framelock guy. I love the feel of plain titanium slabs. No wood inlays, no micarta, just titanium for me. Spider-trails are no problem, and can be easily and cheaply sand-blasted back to "new."
For me? CRK mostly; Sage 2 if I want to go smaller, Strider if I want a bit of tactical thrown in. Liner-locks are okay, but a little more difficult for me to close the knife.

 

[Kowan]

I'd like to think it's a fad, but I figured when BM came out with the Axis lock that new improved lock designs would replace the liner/frame locks and it has not happened yet, I had hoped the compression/bolt/etc. locks would encourage the same, but it has not happened. For whatever reason people generally still equate frame locks with high quality and custom goodness. To me it's just an area where knife people are not that concerned with function. Ti handles are slippery when wet, conductive, cold/hot, and there's no reliable way to open most frame lock knives without putting pressure on the lock bar which means the opening tension is different depending on which hand you are opening with.

Most knives are going to be conductive because you're going to be touching metal somewhere on the handle. Unless it has a smoother Ti on both sides, the scale on the other side is giving grip even if wet. Hot/cold? Are you laying it out in the weather?
If it's cold, I'm also going to be wearing gloves. If it's hot and I'm out in the sun, (try 110-115F in the summers here) I'm going to be wearing gloves again.
Not sure what you're referring to about knowing how to open tension on a frame lock either left or right handed. I'm left handed and can easily close the blade on my right handed frame locks.

 

[ToddM]

We typically can't get away with gloves in the desert here due to the nature of the work and yes at times the knife has to lay out while working and doing repetitive cutting. I'm sure most don't deal with those restrictions, but even without the heat most Ti handles are pretty smooth, and once you have sweaty or wet hands, they are slippery. A half G10 side certainly helps, but these days many of the G10/CF handles are finished smooth as well compounding the issue.

You can open/close one with either hand, but when doing so right handed, the fingers naturally put more pressure on the lock bar increasing the perceived detent tension and effort needed to open it and most people can't easily open one right handed without touching the lockbar at all. It's more of an annoyance than anything. When it's really cold it doesn't matter if you have gloves on or not, either way a metal handle sucks the heat out faster than G10.

 

[Jastab]

I like liner-locks, frame locks, axis locks and triad locks......for me it is the knife itself that speaks to me rather than the lock itself. I've never had any type of lock fail so I'm happy with any of them.....

+1 to this. If your using a knife correctly, you don't need a lock. A slip joint will serve all of my cutting tasks...

 

[stabman]

I would see that there are still additional steps needed which would cost money in the long run for a big company. I'm talking about companies that make thousands of knives, not 10.

The savings in using half the amount of titanium in a liner lock---or steel even---is a lot when they're making thousands.
The amount of cost for all the titanium in a frame-lock slab will offset any savings in handle material or machining time.

Frame-locks are made because of demand, not huge profit margins by knife manufacturers.
At least not profits due to not making another scale.

 

[paynter]

Like 'em...they're here to stay.

I agree. They are simple, efficient and effective.

 

[stabman]

I'm just glad for all the variety in the knife world.
We have AXIS and Tri-Ad locks for ultimate strength.
Lock-backs for time proven reliability.
Liner and frame-locks for elegant simplicity.
Even the old-timey slip-joints and friction folders keep on truckin. :thumbup:

(not to mention compression locks, ball locks, the new power lock, and all the other strange and wonderful locks already out and on the way)

 

[Fred Sanford]

The savings in using half the amount of titanium in a liner lock---or steel even---is a lot when they're making thousands.
The amount of cost for all the titanium in a frame-lock slab will offset any savings in handle material or machining time.

Frame-locks are made because of demand, not huge profit margins by knife manufacturers.
At least not profits due to not making another scale.

You win.

 

[alwayscarryaknife]

Both are a strong design and there is no need to pay the creators for using the design. So we will continue to see these locks until another designer creates a new locking mechanism and doesn't patent it. Why pay someone to use their design when you have two proven free ones to use? I guess when some of the patents expire (I think usually 14 years, but don't quote me) we might see some other designs being used. So go and look at the patent date of some of your favorite designs and start your countdown.

 

[Strong-Dog]

I really hope they're not the new standard. They have a host of issues, are relatively weak and problematic compared to other locks. I understand they are easy on the makers, but we as consumers need to realize just that. They aren't any better for us.