Ti framelocks - a longstanding fad, or the new standard?

[ericvar101]

I don't know, I can think of quite a few really sought after knives with other types of locks. like the Spyderco Military and Paramilitary II, the Native 5, the ZT 350, and many of the Benchmades with the Axis lock. Don't forget the Cold Steel Triad lock.

If you ask me, I think the lock back has been making a come back lately.

I think people like the idea of a titanium frame, I know I do. but also own these other style locks and like em a bunch : ) after all,...variety is the spice of life.

 

[ericvar101]

As with any lock, it depends on how it's made. A well-made framelock or linerlock requires the proper geometry between the lockface and blade tang and is not easy to get perfect. Would you trust a knockoff Axis lock over one that Benchmade puts together? How about the same thing in a Tri-Ad lock? A well-made framelock or linerlock is one of the most solid and safest locks available.

I second that, I have a couple of Sebenzas that will back it up : )

 

[Fred Sanford]

That's because they are, when properly executed to specs. Your view is at best, uninformed.

Far from it.

The only locks I've not seen fail is the compression lock and the tri-ad lock. All others I've seen fail in person.

Talk to STR about frame locks and the thin lockbar cutout. Also, you can twist a liner or frame lock and get any of them to release. They don't like twisting at all. Cliff Stamp shows this happening to a ZT 0560 Hinderer on YouTube.

Say what you will but I'm sure from time to time we have all been cutting something and inadvertently twisted our hands or torqued the knife the wrong way. I don't need a knife failing when I do something like that on accident.

People have a false sense of security with frame locks with huge thick lockbars. It's only as strong as the lockbar cutout, which has been way too thin IMO on most production frame locks.

 

[grownstar]

Why don't you all just calm down and get a fixed blade?

 

[gooeytek]

People have a false sense of security with ANY lock. Just don't do anything stupid with a folder, and you won't have to worry about it. Many knives after all, don't have any locks to begin with.

 

[pvicenzi]

:thumbup: +1 If a lock makes you comfortable doing things with a folder that should be left for a fixed blade, then you are better off with a slip joint. All locks can fail. THe weakest part of any folder is between the ears of it's user.

People have a false sense of security with ANY lock. Just don't do anything stupid with a folder, and you won't have to worry about it. Many knives after all, don't have any locks to begin with.

 

[Fred Sanford]

People have a false sense of security with ANY lock. Just don't do anything stupid with a folder, and you won't have to worry about it. Many knives after all, don't have any locks to begin with.

:thumbup: +1 If a lock makes you comfortable doing things with a folder that should be left for a fixed blade, then you are better off with a slip joint. All locks can fail. THe weakest part of any folder is between the ears of it's user.

I totally agree with you both. I have a few really good frame locks that I like to carry. I also carry GEC slippies. I just make sure I don't think any of my knives are fixed blades. ;-)

 

[alwayscarryaknife]

Politics, religion, and folding knife locking mechanisms.

 

[gdwtvb]

It is always interesting to me to read forums. Inevitably people will start to discuss interesting topics and for some reason the discussions always seem to drift farther and farther into dreamland and away from practicality and common sense.

I'll address a couple points I have seen in this topic;

Framelocks are not as strong as other locks: Lets inject some common sense here. How strong does a lock need to be? I'm nearly fifty and been using knives for a good 40 years now, only one lock has ever failed on me, liner lock in a buck crosslock when it first came out. I got a tiny cut. I would doubt that even one out of the people reading this could put anywhere near 100 foot pounds of torque on a knife. (think of lifting a 100 pound weight that is suspended on a foot long bar sticking out of the end of your hand. One hand. Over a hundred pound single wrist curl) If you are using a knife and you accidentally put pressure on the back of the blade it will probably be less than a pound max. If it is more, you honestly have no clue how to use a knife. If you are putting enough pressure to break a framelock that is securely in your hand, the pressure would surely be enough to remove your fingers. Get real.

Titanium is too hot/too cold : One person mentioned specific circumstances where that may actually be true, it doesn't hold true for most of us. I worked in an open to the air warehouse for the last 20 years and used a Ti handled knife since 2002. Temperatures ranged from 6 degrees F in the coldest nights to 100+ in the middle of August. I kept the knife in my pocket where it was always about the same as my body temp. I didn't lay it down in the sun, or leave it sitting out in the cold. I took it out of my pocket, used it, and put it back. (often many times a day) Winter I would often remove my gloves to use it. Never had a problem. Few people would even use a knife in the extremes that I did. Titanium is less thermally conductive than aluminum, steel, or brass. (How many millions of knives have been made with brass bolsters?) We take the knife from our pocket, (where it is about body temp.) cut something, and put it back. It's OK to dislike titanium, but try to be realistic.

Framelocks wear out Welcome to planet earth. Any moving thing wears. Do you honestly believe that other locks don't wear? Just because you can't see the engagement of other locks doesn't mean that they are immune to the laws of Physics. And just like the buck 110 that grandpa still uses to clean deer, Your framelock will slowly travel to the other side, but like grandpa, by the time you are 75 years old you'll understand that a knife with a tiny bit of almost imperceptible blade play will still be safe to use and clean a buck.

OK Rant off for the evening

Grizz

 

[JNewell]

I disagree. There are physical limitations inherent to any design. No matter how skilled or attentive the maker, you cannot surpass those limitations.

I agree completely

Well, let's start with this post from some guy who thinks he knows a thing or two about locks (the post is as Spyderco Forums):

Considering the question of "what is the strongest Lock". There is no speculation. We have broken hundreds of locks thousands of times. We have no problem getting our minds wrapped around it. We have also learned that "opinion" is of litttle value.

We record the breaks, the numbers, dates, etc.

I believe Deacon, Unit and others expressed why is not a realistic question. "How high is up"?

While some have mentioned; preferences, reliability, engineering, accidental unclocking, etc. Absolute strength of a lock cannot be determined without scientificly testing of said locks and they must be broken to find their limit.

In our testing, we have learned that we can make any lock as strong as we choose to. Make it bigger, harder, tougher, etc. To say that one style of lock is superior by design would be very difficult to prove, considering we can make any lock as strong as we choose to.

For our design purposes, we classify locks into a number of categories with regards to ultimate strength. This is decided when the knife is designed. Based on that decision, we select materials and sizes.

Light duty = 25 - 50 inch/lbs per inch of blade length.
Medium duty = 50 - 100 inch/lbs per inch of blade length.
Heavy duty = 100-200 inch/lbs per inch of blade length.
Very heavy duty (MBC) = over 200 inch/lbs per inch of blade length.

You seem to suggest that it is difficult to "get your minds around" the question. Perhaps you need to get your mind around the fact that there is no answer to your question.

Is the Axis lock, the way it is made by Benchmade stronger than the Triad lock as made by Cold Steel? No problem.

Is the Walker Linerlock stronger than the Reeve Integral Lock? Foolish question.

What kind of a lock do you want and how strong do you want it to be?

sal

----------------------------------------------------------------

Have knowledge, will share

 

[JNewell]

I have held a 530, but not a military. I guess the military's line just looks inordinately thin. I hope to get one at some point though.

The Military liner is a short piece of stainless steel that's recessed into the G10 scale so that it's very well supported. It's extremely strong, even though it doesn't necessarily look that way.

 

[Strong-Dog]

Well, let's start with this post from some guy who thinks he knows a thing or two about locks (the post is as Spyderco Forums):

Did you read my earlier post? I'm talking about knives on the market right now.

If Sal took every Axis lock knife on the market right now (or BBL) and tested every one of them till failure, and then averaged the load it took, that number would no doubt be greater than the average load every frame-lock on the market would take. Now, there are obviously some frame-locks that very well may be stronger than some Axis (or BBL), but generally, Axis type locks are stronger than frame-locks.

I'm not talking about what can be made, I'm talking about what is in existence now.

 

[JNewell]

Did you read my earlier post? I'm talking about knives on the market right now.

If Sal took every Axis lock knife on the market right now (or BBL) and tested every one of them till failure, and then averaged the load it took, that number would no doubt be greater than the average load every frame-lock on the market would take. Now, there are obviously some frame-locks that very well may be stronger than some Axis (or BBL), but generally, Axis type locks are stronger than frame-locks.

I'm not talking about what can be made, I'm talking about what is in existence now.

Yeah...what is your point? I will agree that crappy, weak, unsafe knives probably disproportionately fall in the linerlock and framelock category, but all that proves is that there are bad makers that sell bad knives. There is no inherent merit or strength in any particular lock design. It's all how it's designed, sized and built. You can get any result you want if you do things right.

 

[Strong-Dog]

"There is no inherent merit or strength in any particular lock design."

I'm sorry, but even if Sal himself said that, I have to disagree with it.

 

[B.F.U]

Politics, religion, and folding knife locking mechanisms.

Hahaha this is the wisest post in this thread

 

[B.F.U]

I'm absolutely sick of people saying things like "if you need a strong lock you don't know how to use a knife". That is absolutely not true. Maybe the person who says that uses their knives so little and so lightly that they never have a slipped hand or a miscalculation. But if you use knives regularly, there will be accidents. That's how the world works. I want my lock to take those accidents, not fail. That's the whole point of a lock. That argument is illogical.

 

[Strong-Dog]

I'm absolutely sick of people saying things like "if you need a strong lock you don't know how to use a knife". That is absolutely not true. Maybe the person who says that uses their knives so little and so lightly that they never have a slipped hand or a miscalculation. But if you use knives regularly, there will be accidents. That's how the world works. I want my lock to take those accidents, not fail. That's the whole point of a lock. That argument is illogical.

Exactly, and that even if that was true that doesn't change the fact that certain styles of lock are generally inherently able to take more loads (stronger) than other types of locks.

 

[harleyguy02]

I like liner-locks, frame locks, axis locks and triad locks......for me it is the knife itself that speaks to me rather than the lock itself. I've never had any type of lock fail so I'm happy with any of them.....

+1

Exactly how I feel...

 

[Kowan]

Okay , you convinced me. I'm going to go buy a sword...

 

[Stays Sharp]

The Military's liner lock isn't any thinner than most any framelock's lock bar cutout and it's a liner lock done right. Been a respected model in Spyderco's lineup for 20 years for a reason.