Ti framelocks - a longstanding fad, or the new standard?

[K.O.D.]

I think the trend is because they are:

A) Lightweight
B) Hey its titanium!
C) Ease of maintenance/ keeping clean compared to other locks.
D) Simplicity, cheaper than designing a whole new lock or paying for rights to someone else's design.

I don't think they are going to become the standard. I've never been a framelock or linerlock fan myself, though I do own a handful of them.

 

[alwayscarryaknife]

I really hope they're not the new standard. They have a host of issues, are relatively weak and problematic compared to other locks. I understand they are easy on the makers, but we as consumers need to realize just that. They aren't any better for us.

This is news to me.

 

[JNewell]

I really hope they're not the new standard. They have a host of issues, are relatively weak and problematic compared to other locks. I understand they are easy on the makers, but we as consumers need to realize just that. They aren't any better for us.

This is news to me.

It'll be news to a lot of people.

 

[gooeytek]

I really hope they're not the new standard. They have a host of issues, are relatively weak and problematic compared to other locks. I understand they are easy on the makers, but we as consumers need to realize just that. They aren't any better for us.

As with any lock, it depends on how it's made. A well-made framelock or linerlock requires the proper geometry between the lockface and blade tang and is not easy to get perfect. Would you trust a knockoff Axis lock over one that Benchmade puts together? How about the same thing in a Tri-Ad lock? A well-made framelock or linerlock is one of the most solid and safest locks available.

 

[JNewell]

Exactly. Any lock can be made as strong and safe and reliable, or the opposite of each of those, as the skill and attention of the maker permit.

 

[Strong-Dog]

What I said was just my view on them. You may love frame-locks and think they are the strongest locks out there.

 

[gooeytek]

That's because they are, when properly executed to specs. Your view is at best, uninformed.

 

[Strong-Dog]

That's because they are, when properly executed to specs. Your view is at best, uninformed.

So your saying a frame-lock thats "executed to specs" is as strong as a BBL or Axis-lock also "executed to specs"? I'm talking about the majority of frame-locks on the market, and they simply cannot tolerate the same loads as the majority of BBL or Axis-locks on the market can without failing.

 

[Kowan]

With so many frame locks already out there and have been for years, if there was a high failure rate of the locks on knives not abused by the owner, lawyers would be going for class action lawsuits.
Proper tool for the correct job is stressed everywhere.

 

[Strong-Dog]

With so many frame locks already out there and have been for years, if there was a high failure rate of the locks on knives not abused by the owner, lawyers would be going for class action lawsuits.
Proper tool for the correct job is stressed everywhere.

That's true, but I never said there was a high failure rate. I only said that certain other locks are stronger and can take more loads and aren't subject to many of the issues frame-locks are.

 

[gooeytek]

I really hope they're not the new standard. They have a host of issues, are relatively weak and problematic compared to other locks. I understand they are easy on the makers, but we as consumers need to realize just that. They aren't any better for us.

So your saying a frame-lock thats "executed to specs" is as strong as a BBL or Axis-lock also "executed to specs"? I'm talking about the majority of frame-locks on the market, and they simply cannot tolerate the same loads as the majority of BBL or Axis-locks on the market can without failing.

You said "weak and problematic compared to other locks". What other locks? back locks? slip joints? axis knockoffs? ball-bearing locks? does it matter who makes these BBLs or Axis locks? how strong do you need the lock to be? Should I test a framelock ZT550 vs an Enlan Axis lock? I've also got a BBL on a Poliwog knockoff, should I throw that into the mix? Blanket statements like yours above just reflect a lack of information.

Chris Reeve pioneered the framelock, so are you implying Sebenzas "have a host of issues, are relatively weak and problematic compared to other locks"? I'm not a fan of Sebenzas in general but I do have one, and I can tell you that its framelock and deep lockup doesn't need to be babied.

Sure, they aren't as strong as a Tri-Ad, or can be argued that Axis locks are stronger, but have you seen what happens when these locks fail (including framelocks and linerlocks)? On many framelocks/linerlocks at least, the knife stays locked open and useable.

There's also a reason Axis locks and Tri-Ad locks aren't being legally incorporated into other production knives outside of Benchmade and Cold Steel respectively, and it has to do with patents.

 

[goldie]

I just got a les george vecp 2.0 ; that knife locked is one of the strongest locks ive experienced. i dont know if thats how they all are,i have a 1.0 & it unlocks like a 560,but that 2.0; i cannot see that lock failing short of being run over by a tank...

 

[Strong-Dog]

You said "weak and problematic compared to other locks". What other locks? back locks? slip joints? axis knockoffs? ball-bearing locks? does it matter who makes these BBLs or Axis locks? how strong do you need the lock to be? Should I test a framelock ZT550 vs an Enlan Axis lock? I've also got a BBL on a Poliwog knockoff, should I throw that into the mix? Blanket statements like yours above just reflect a lack of information.

Chris Reeve pioneered the framelock, so are you implying Sebenzas "have a host of issues, are relatively weak and problematic compared to other locks"? I'm not a fan of Sebenzas in general but I do have one, and I can tell you that its framelock and deep lockup doesn't need to be babied.

Sure, they aren't as strong as a Tri-Ad, or can be argued that Axis locks are stronger, but have you seen what happens when these locks fail (including framelocks and linerlocks)? On many framelocks/linerlocks at least, the knife stays locked open and useable.

There's also a reason Axis locks and Tri-Ad locks aren't being legally incorporated into other production knives outside of Benchmade and Cold Steel respectively, and it has to do with patents.

Compared to locks such as the BBL or the Axis-lock. Frame-locks are perfectly strong for my uses, that doesn't change the fact that there are stronger locks on the market. Frame-locks can suffer from issues such as lock-slip, sticking, and the lock wearing to the point of having to send the knife in to get it fixed. These issues, from what I'ver heard, happen much more readily than any issues with a BBL, Axis-lock, or even a well made back lock.

 

[JNewell]

That's true, but I never said there was a high failure rate. I only said that certain other locks are stronger and can take more loads and aren't subject to many of the issues frame-locks are.

The problem is that you're just plain wrong. There is no "native" spec for any of these locks. They are as strong as they're built to be. Are you trying to tell me that a 530 wil take the lock abuse that a Military will take? There is no such thing as a strong lock or a weak lock. There are strong KNIVES and weak KNIVES.

 

[B.F.U]

The problem is that you're just plain wrong. There is no "native" spec for any of these locks. They are as strong as they're built to be. Are you trying to tell me that a 530 wil take the lock abuse that a Military will take? There is no such thing as a strong lock or a weak lock. There are strong KNIVES and weak KNIVES.

You don't think it would? Why not? Serious question, not trolling.

 

[JNewell]

You don't think it would? Why not? Serious question, not trolling.

Serious answer, not snarky. No, I don't - have you ever held a 530? The liners are incredibly thin and the Axis lock bar is quite small in diameter. My bet on failure mode would be that the liners would crumple, which is one way that Axis locks fail. Spyderco has tested the Military at some very high level of force - I don't remember the number, but I'd be shocked if a 530 came anywhere near it.

 

[B.F.U]

Serious answer, not snarky. No, I don't - have you ever held a 530? The liners are incredibly thin and the Axis lock bar is quite small in diameter. My bet on failure mode would be that the liners would crumple, which is one way that Axis locks fail. Spyderco has tested the Military at some very high level of force - I don't remember the number, but I'd be shocked if a 530 came anywhere near it.

I have held a 530, but not a military. I guess the military's line just looks inordinately thin. I hope to get one at some point though.

 

[Strong-Dog]

The problem is that you're just plain wrong. There is no "native" spec for any of these locks. They are as strong as they're built to be. Are you trying to tell me that a 530 wil take the lock abuse that a Military will take? There is no such thing as a strong lock or a weak lock. There are strong KNIVES and weak KNIVES.

Maybe I should have made this very clear, but I'm saying that when you look at all frame-locks out there as a whole, of course there will be some incredibly strong ones, and some very weak ones. Same goes for Axis or BBL. But what I was trying to say was that if you take the average load that a host of frame-locks can take before failing, and the average load that a host of Axis locks can take before failing, the Axis lock group will no doubt be able to withstand much higher loads of force. If I'm wrong on that, please inform me why

 

[Insipid Moniker]

Exactly. Any lock can be made as strong and safe and reliable, or the opposite of each of those, as the skill and attention of the maker permit.

I disagree. There are physical limitations inherent to any design. No matter how skilled or attentive the maker, you cannot surpass those limitations.

 

[Strong-Dog]

I disagree. There are physical limitations inherent to any design. No matter how skilled or attentive the maker, you cannot surpass those limitations.

I agree completely