Tidings and the return of Schatt and Morgan?

draggat said:
@jeffsenpai Thank you for posting the photos of your knife! I hope you don't take any of the following the wrong way, I am in no way trying to be critical of you, but rather, just taking a critical look at the knife itself. Personally, I am very interested in seeing the S&M line revived. A couple of questions.... Is there any blade play and are the pulls smooth and snappy?

Judging from the photos, these don't look all that bad, but considering what it is, I get why everyone here is being critical of these knives, especially at the price point. If they really want to compete with GEC, I personally think they need to up their game and the following are things they would have to refine in order to be in the same league.

1: That proud backspring when closed is an instant deal breaker to me. You can get a Rough Rider for $10 without that issue and any knife at $80 better not have that.

2: The sharpening doesn't look so great to me. Even though this is a personal, maybe minor gripe, if you look at the heel of both blades, they aren't straight, but have a slight recurve. To me, that's a sign of an inexperienced sharpener. Also, at the tip of the clip blade, the angle looks like it changes, instead of being fluid and smooth.

3: The spine of the spey blade appears wavy, instead of straight in the photo.

4: The shield inlet is too deep and looks like it would catch your finger in an uncomfortable way, which would drive me nuts.

5: The blade tangs are etched, as opposed to being stamped.

6: The polishing compound (black gunk) should be nearly completely cleaned out. I hate having to take a toothpick and cleaning patch to a brand new knife.

Aesthetically, the pattern, colors, shield and jigging aren't very appealing to me, but remember, when GEC first started, they primarily made 23's and 73's which aren't appealing to me either.

Does anyone know what their identification system is, or if they even have one? That's another collectible factor for me.
Click to expand...
You sure know what you don't like, however some seem to be cosmetic personal quirks. The owner...you know the guy who has the knife in hand....seems satisfied for the price.

The early GEC knives weren't what they are now.

Anything you actually like about the knife?
 
Jiki said:
While preforming in a house full of critics.
Click to expand...
There might be less critics IF the end product corresponded to all the BS marketing hype and faux nostalgia ;)

These knives are in no way reminiscent of Schatt & Morgan knives of the past in terms of use of materials, patterns or ethos. They look a lot like early RR knives, it might change but it needs to happen.
 
"IF" the Cooper knives gain acceptance by the BF crowd, including myself, I believe it will be very incrementally...... I think it will take time to vet the offerings and decide if they are worth our knife dollars.... I, for one, would have to read many glowing reports before I'd put one in my collection....
 
They make it easy to be a critic when they start their company off with a poorly made marijuana knife and charge a boatload for it.
Seems sticking to some traditional values would serve them well in the market place... How about a hotdog shield? ;)
 
The have other non sea green knives on the FB page that might be better received?

abf8gle.jpeg

gfrwPvk.png
 
JohnDF said:
Is it just me, or does the shield look off-center?
Click to expand...
Thank you, it's not just the weed shield. The internet is a 💩show and in it's nature people love to be critics. Not making a judgement just acknowledging the current state.
 
Jiki said:
Thank you, it's not just the weed shield. The internet is a 💩show and in it's nature people love to be critics. Not making a judgement just acknowledging the current state.
Click to expand...

Sorry, but the criticisms levied thus far are plenty warranted. John's point regarding Cooper Cutlery debuting a shoddy line of knives at a very premium price point is an excellent one and it sets the stage for further scrutiny - justified scrutiny.

I am happy that they are working on an actual S&M line and to my eye, from the pictures I've seen, I do see improvements. I hope that continues in a positive direction but objectively speaking, I haven't read any critical commentary that wasn't justified in some manner or another.

Cooper Cutlery doesn't get a free pass because we are eager for more American-made cutlery options to choose from. Thus far, I have seen a lot of gimmicky marketing, shady information, and half-truths (if not outright lies) with regards to their manufacturing practices so far. Of course, the company is free to conduct their business as they see fit but it remains to be seen how they will fare in the grand scheme of things.

Though I think we have collectively been skeptical, we also have been cautiously optimistic.
 
Pàdruig said:
Sorry, but the criticisms levied thus far are plenty warranted. John's point regarding Cooper Cutlery debuting a shoddy line of knives at a very premium price point is an excellent one and it sets the stage for further scrutiny - justified scrutiny.

I am happy that they are working on an actual S&M line and to my eye, from the pictures I've seen, I do see improvements. I hope that continues in a positive direction but objectively speaking, I haven't read any critical commentary that wasn't justified in some manner or another.

Cooper Cutlery doesn't get a free pass because we are eager for more American-made cutlery options to choose from. Thus far, I have seen a lot of gimmicky marketing, shady information, and half-truths (if not outright lies) with regards to their manufacturing practices so far. Of course, the company is free to conduct their business as they see fit but it remains to be seen how they will fare in the grand scheme of things.

Though I think we have collectively been skeptical, we also have been cautiously optimistic.
Click to expand...
I have never judged the criticism, only stated that this massive undertaking and risk is being performed in a theater full of critics. I will add though they sold out their first batch, the true measure will be if they continue to do so. It is easy to talk on the internet, however the only vote that counts is they one made with ones wallet.
 
Jiki said:
I have never judged the criticism, only stated that this massive undertaking and risk is being performed in a theater full of critics.
Click to expand...

I don't think anyone is denying the huge risk that is involved - however, due to said risk, I would hope that their focus has been (and will remain) on producing the best product that they can. So far, it has not been encouraging for us collectors and enthusiasts alike - therefore the theater of critics.

1.) Make a good product (this hasn't happened quite yet)
2.) Take the criticism (if any) in stride (nothing to show whether or not they are paying attention to this)
3.) Continue to strive for better (there appears to be visual evidence, at least, that this is happening)


Jiki said:
I will add though they sold out their first batch, the true measure will be if they continue to do so.
Click to expand...

I almost added that point in my previous post. However, the cynic in me saw it as an attempt by some folks to get in on the ground floor of this enterprise in hopes that it would garner them a quick buck in the future. I suspect there was plenty of disappointment in that regard as the knives are straight up awful and the price point was even worse.

Jiki said:
It is easy to talk on the internet,
Click to expand...

Plenty of folks here who have met me in person - there is nothing I say here that I wouldn't say to someone in person. I do agree though, there is little accountability for one's words on the Internet. However, I don't see that being a contributing factor in this discussion. If the criticism is unwarranted, then yes, talk is cheap.

Jiki said:
the only vote that counts is they one made with ones wallet.
Click to expand...

Agreed but it won't negate legitimately critical discussions on the product. Plenty of knife makes/manufacturers that either are shoddy businessmen or put out subpar product that still maintain a healthy support base. Cooper Cutlery has quite the hill to climb and though I wish them every success, I will absolutely continue to be objectively critical and provide such opinions here for the purpose of continued discussion.
 
Pàdruig said:
I will absolutely continue to be objectively critical and provide such opinions here for the purpose of continued discussion.
Click to expand...
No one said you shouldn't. I have been around long enough to know whose opinions I value and which ones I don't. (Yours happens to be one I do)

I was still just making an observation.

My personal criticism right now is the 522 error.
 
If Cooper survives, with whatever brand they are producing, it will be interesting to see where they are marketing those knives..... Maybe the don't give a rip about the BF crowd?..... Maybe they want a youthful market that are more into gimmickry versus tradition?....

It is like Cadillac and Buick trying to woo the hipster crowd versus the stodgy Bank Presidents and retired College Professors that presently buy their cars..... Thus far they have failed to alter their fan base..... At this point Cooper has to develop a fan base or there won't be a need for any of his knives....

It will be interesting to see who they are targeting.....
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top