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tim steingas
- Thread starter STEPHEN BAYAZES
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SpySmasher
Lead Guitar
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2016
- Messages
- 5,016
He's a member here. Did you talk to him about it?
- Joined
- May 10, 2017
- Messages
- 20
Yes I did and he told me he didn't make the dagger to be sharp and since I own it I could do with it what I wanted to but the problem is it will not hold a edge no temper he made a real looker I also told him from the start the reason I wanted the dagger was to put on a tactical vest.
One of my great knife sharpening lessons, was realized when I tried to sharpen a double edged Gerber design dagger. After spending three days in the garage, grossly changing the shape, and sustaining endless complaints from my wife, that I had disappeared, a small part of brain kicked in, and realized that the geometry did not sustain, what I was trying to do. Daggers will never be slicers.
The best that you can do, is to find a compatible micro bevel angle, and the apply it to the edge. Removing copious amounts of metal, won't accomplish anything.
The best that you can do, is to find a compatible micro bevel angle, and the apply it to the edge. Removing copious amounts of metal, won't accomplish anything.
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- Jun 16, 2003
- Messages
- 20,207
Tempering is to draw brittleness, is it not?
- Joined
- Jan 8, 2013
- Messages
- 1,354
This is almost incoherent. Use punctuation. If you were this hard to understand, maybe there was some sort of communication issue.
You say that he "didn't make the dagger to be sharp"? I doubt that was the exact quote. That sort of statement, if even close to true, likely has a lot of context to go with it. Why not provide that context? Without evidence, it seems quite unlikely.
And how do you know it isn't tempered? All you have offered is that it won't hold an edge. How did you determine that? Even if true, that is not necessarily indicative of hardened but untempered steel. Excessive chipping may be more indicative. If it underperforms, did you try to return it? What was the exact conversation?
You ask why you would post it if it weren't true. People do that all the time, intentionally and accidentally. I'll bet you haven't tested the hardness, and yet you're here saying that you somehow know that a specific step of heat treat was skipped. Seems unlikely.
You say that he "didn't make the dagger to be sharp"? I doubt that was the exact quote. That sort of statement, if even close to true, likely has a lot of context to go with it. Why not provide that context? Without evidence, it seems quite unlikely.
And how do you know it isn't tempered? All you have offered is that it won't hold an edge. How did you determine that? Even if true, that is not necessarily indicative of hardened but untempered steel. Excessive chipping may be more indicative. If it underperforms, did you try to return it? What was the exact conversation?
You ask why you would post it if it weren't true. People do that all the time, intentionally and accidentally. I'll bet you haven't tested the hardness, and yet you're here saying that you somehow know that a specific step of heat treat was skipped. Seems unlikely.
- Joined
- May 10, 2017
- Messages
- 20
I understand slicing there not if it will not cut paper it will not cut a vane worthless I have a flat ice pick!
Maybe show us a photo of the design? If a dagger is thin in the center, it can slice better, but will probably bend, if there is 200 pounds of contorting muscle at the other end. I've experienced the same issue as you, with thick daggers never having the best utility for cutting.
Also do some research about the knifemaker that you are referring to. You really should talk to him first, and in a polite fashion. I'm pretty sure that his reputation is Platinum around these parts, so you may not get serious attention on this forum, about your complaint.
Also do some research about the knifemaker that you are referring to. You really should talk to him first, and in a polite fashion. I'm pretty sure that his reputation is Platinum around these parts, so you may not get serious attention on this forum, about your complaint.
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- Joined
- Oct 16, 2010
- Messages
- 5,800
This was Mr. Bayazes third knife order - his charge to me was to build my version of an Arkansas Toothpick dagger, mammoth ivory, free artistic license, 10" blade length, "make it a work of art." We agreed on a price of $1300 delivered.
I liked the design I came up with so much I built two......one in mammoth ivory and one in Bastogne Walnut as a spec knife. See photo:
The blades were double hollow chisel ground with a convex tip on the show side, and single hollow ground on the back side. Frame handle construction with coined stainless spacers, soldered double guard, mirror finish.
I don't agree with Mr. Bayazes charge that it isn't tempered - both knives were made of CPM-154, were austenitized in my digitally controlled oven at 1950 F for 30 minutes, forced air quenched, then tempered at 1000 F for two hours twice, yielding Rc 59-60. The blades were belt sharpened to 220 grit and lightly stropped, yielding a toothy edge per the sharpening philosophy I maintain and expound on on my website. I believe in a robust, toothy edge rather than a polished edge. These two daggers will punch through car doors all day long but won't shave hair or cut paper. I doubt that shaving hair sharp can be obtained without drastically changing the chisel grind geometry of these knives, but I designed and ground them to penetrate, as daggers are supposed to, not shave. I sent photos of the knives to Mr. Bayazes and requested the agreed to price of $1300.
Payment was another matter - the first check never arrived, the second took (forever), and finally I took PayPal payment and ate the PayPal fees just to get this issue to closure. When Mr. Bayazes received the dagger he texted me that he has never seen a dagger like this and wanted to send it back. I called and explained to him that this was a "one of a kind" with extremely difficult grinds similar to the late Buster Warenski style - with the convex tip he had a truly special dagger. His response was "I love it." We discussed sharpening the knife and I explained my philosophy (explained above) and that he was free to sharpen it any way he wishes, as it's his knife.
Mr Bayazes then asked for a "Big Bubba Discount" (quote) on the second dagger - since he was a good client I lowered the price and he countered with an even lower price, which I declined to accept. It's on my website under Currently Available and it will sell.
So to wrap this up, the knife was designed, heat treated, and sharpened to do its intended function - to penetrate....the dagger is battle ready. I'm quite certain that I met the terms of the order, gave Mr. Bayazes my best work and materials, and supplied him with a very special dagger. I appreciate Mr. Bayazes' business but I will not take the dagger back and alter it so that it can shave hair.
I spent 12 hours in the shop today as I usually do, so, I won't be coming back here to debate this with anyone tomorrow - I'd rather build knives than argue. Finally, the feedback rating of 82 positives from the BF customers that I have (and value) pretty much speaks volumes about the quality of my work and how I treat my clients.
V/R,
TK
I liked the design I came up with so much I built two......one in mammoth ivory and one in Bastogne Walnut as a spec knife. See photo:
The blades were double hollow chisel ground with a convex tip on the show side, and single hollow ground on the back side. Frame handle construction with coined stainless spacers, soldered double guard, mirror finish.
I don't agree with Mr. Bayazes charge that it isn't tempered - both knives were made of CPM-154, were austenitized in my digitally controlled oven at 1950 F for 30 minutes, forced air quenched, then tempered at 1000 F for two hours twice, yielding Rc 59-60. The blades were belt sharpened to 220 grit and lightly stropped, yielding a toothy edge per the sharpening philosophy I maintain and expound on on my website. I believe in a robust, toothy edge rather than a polished edge. These two daggers will punch through car doors all day long but won't shave hair or cut paper. I doubt that shaving hair sharp can be obtained without drastically changing the chisel grind geometry of these knives, but I designed and ground them to penetrate, as daggers are supposed to, not shave. I sent photos of the knives to Mr. Bayazes and requested the agreed to price of $1300.
Payment was another matter - the first check never arrived, the second took (forever), and finally I took PayPal payment and ate the PayPal fees just to get this issue to closure. When Mr. Bayazes received the dagger he texted me that he has never seen a dagger like this and wanted to send it back. I called and explained to him that this was a "one of a kind" with extremely difficult grinds similar to the late Buster Warenski style - with the convex tip he had a truly special dagger. His response was "I love it." We discussed sharpening the knife and I explained my philosophy (explained above) and that he was free to sharpen it any way he wishes, as it's his knife.
Mr Bayazes then asked for a "Big Bubba Discount" (quote) on the second dagger - since he was a good client I lowered the price and he countered with an even lower price, which I declined to accept. It's on my website under Currently Available and it will sell.
So to wrap this up, the knife was designed, heat treated, and sharpened to do its intended function - to penetrate....the dagger is battle ready. I'm quite certain that I met the terms of the order, gave Mr. Bayazes my best work and materials, and supplied him with a very special dagger. I appreciate Mr. Bayazes' business but I will not take the dagger back and alter it so that it can shave hair.
I spent 12 hours in the shop today as I usually do, so, I won't be coming back here to debate this with anyone tomorrow - I'd rather build knives than argue. Finally, the feedback rating of 82 positives from the BF customers that I have (and value) pretty much speaks volumes about the quality of my work and how I treat my clients.
V/R,
TK
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- Joined
- Oct 16, 2010
- Messages
- 5,800
Well said - this man knows what he's talking about.
. I would be straight intimidated by someone wielding that, no matter what I held in my possession 
.I would suggest that the next time one of your friends is butchering a pig, in your neck of the woods, to give your new dagger a test run. Now that I see the design, I'd say that what you have is a deep penetrating knife, easy in and out, and a low drag coefficient. The design will also keep the knife from getting hung up or imbedded in bone.
Compare it with a dagger style that slices well, like a Cold Steel Taipan. Much more surface area, higher drag coefficient, harder to accomplish easy and deep in and out penetration, and much greater chance of cutting into and getting imbedded in bone.
Your new TK built dagger, will reach vital organs, in a much more effective manner. Each style has unique and strong qualities, and that's why we have so many knife designs.
Twenty years ago, I used to think that every knife had to shave arm hair, or slice thin paper, and in the process, unnecessarily reprofiled many knives. Now that I've learned to respect the design, my edge maintainance has become easy. I've learned to study a blade that has become dull, and then just do a small amount of touch up, to get it back to normal utility.
Compare it with a dagger style that slices well, like a Cold Steel Taipan. Much more surface area, higher drag coefficient, harder to accomplish easy and deep in and out penetration, and much greater chance of cutting into and getting imbedded in bone.
Your new TK built dagger, will reach vital organs, in a much more effective manner. Each style has unique and strong qualities, and that's why we have so many knife designs.
Twenty years ago, I used to think that every knife had to shave arm hair, or slice thin paper, and in the process, unnecessarily reprofiled many knives. Now that I've learned to respect the design, my edge maintainance has become easy. I've learned to study a blade that has become dull, and then just do a small amount of touch up, to get it back to normal utility.
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