Tip damage from "over closing" Buck 110??

Status
Not open for further replies.
VorpalRain said:
I wonder if the shape of the drop point has something to do with hitting the spacer?

It is, after all, a configuration that is alien to the original good design.

Could be a case of unintended consequences from a change.
Click to expand...
Theres that weird extra "hump" in the spacer that wasn't on older models... no idea why, but that seems to be the issue to me...
 
The shape of the drop point blade probably doesn't help because it looks like it would stick out a little farther.

I think that besides the spacer shape the other main thing is that the shape of the kick (way back on the bottom of the tang) has changed on the newer knives. It's smaller and more rounded now.

It doesn't give the same protection--that is--distance of separation between the tip and the spacer........and since the spring is weaker than it used to be there is a greater likelihood of harsher contact between blade and spacer.

Wish we had those pictures from Oregon.
 
YOWSER! dayum lota thoughts on this here issue... ok
jest for you newbies I have over 500 110s from one line '64 to prototype al-u-men-e-um auto
this issue has been a part of a 110 all dat time. I never let any one close my show knives due to that issue.
now for my EDC I don't worry of it... as I see it it is as much or more a issue of the 'choil'
the choli most times will keep the blade from hitting the spring holder and fer your info it is the choil that the repair guy will trim down if he has to repoint one so as to keep the point in the channel.
NOW as it happens all blades are hand finished and sharpened and as with all things done by hand there will be some differences from perfict (jeast like my spelling) ... so I am sure this is not an issue that is looked for by qc..
and I have checked other brands of lock backs and most all can have this issue = it seems it is inherent in the design of a lock back blade... I notice that most times it is a small part in the belly of the point/ curve that will hit if let to snap closed which is why I NEVER let a blade snap close ... but I see that happening ... all the time even at bcci meets that old time collectors like to hear that SNAP closing action and many even consider it a necessary part of the miss-teak of having a awesome lock back...
and you see it in Many description's of used knives on the flea bay place - good or great snap!
SO as so many consider great snap a necessary part of having a lock back what is buck to do ?
make it so that it wont hit the back under any conditions wit no Great snap? or ...
try like hell to hit that perfect medium with some good snap and possibility o hitting the point or edge of the blade on the spring... Me I say IF YOU CARE ABOUT YOUR KNIFE don't let it snap close !!! close it two handed if you can ...
EDIT; the line I seen of taking a dreamel disk and carefully gringing out the spring holder to solve this is a GREAT idea and if I go to edc a 110 again I will do that ifn I needs to have the best of both worlds great snap and no dings!!
 
LOL! Finally......an expert.

Leave it to Dave to introduce a new term to an already complicated topic and muddy the waters even more.

Terms already thrown around and misunderstood by some are......."spring holder" "kick" and "spacer."

Now we have "choil."

Oh joyl. Now we toil. We have to consider the Dave sense of humor here. There's a chance that he may actually enjoy confusing the newbies, as he calls them.

I think it's the KICK that has the task of stopping that precious and delicate blade edge at the tip from hitting that "spring holder" or "spacer" as some choose to call it. The choil, being more of a divot or notch than a projection--would not be likely to stop anything.

But who knows? As with all things Buck there can be many answers to the never-ending questions.

Anyhow, here's info that may help all of us that are not elderly enough to own 500 110s. :D

http://www.blademag.com/blog/can-define-knife-choil

"""Be that as it may, the chief purpose of the knife choil, as noted by the definitions of both Russell and Collins, is to allow the full length of the cutting edge to be properly sharpened. In other words, it is simply a small notch between where the cutting edge ends and the ricasso or the blade tang begins that indicates where you should stop when sharpening the blade with a stone, diamond-coated abrasive or what have you."""
 
Last edited:
I'm sure he does.

Anyway, he's not as jumpy since he went to decaf. I'm just glad to see him back and want to give him a proper welcome.

Also......he needs to get this "choil" thing he started under control.

P.S. I think I'm older than he is......just not as addicted. I don't count, but I'm sure I have fewer than 50 110s and 112s.

:D
 
Last edited:
Maybe someone will find a good parts diagram that can be used in other 'descriptive' threads. Would be nice to include shapes of Buck blades. Just saying.....I think I can slip in the locked tang stamp sticky and post diagrams with parts names there if someone can get them to me.....300
 
Last edited:
We had several such diagrams and I suppose most, if not all, were lost in the PhotoBucket Massacre.

The link I posted above does have a diagram showing the parts of a folding knife blade.
 
VorpalRain said:
In other words, it is simply a small notch between where the cutting edge ends and the ricasso or the blade tang begins...
Click to expand...

To confuse the term even more, a choil can also be a large notch for finger placement to allow for choking up on the grip. Like this one that allows enough space to parallel park a Jeep. :D

P1630198__43195.JPG
 
Yes, I never could get used to putting my finger in that spot. Too close to the business part. Gives me the willies. :)

Beautiful Randall, BTW.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TAH
VorpalRain said:
LOL! Finally......an expert.

Leave it to Dave to introduce a new term to an already complicated topic and muddy the waters even more.
Terms already thrown around and misunderstood by some are......."spring holder" "kick" and "spacer."
Now we have "choil."
Oh joyl. Now we toil. We have to consider the Dave sense of humor here. There's a chance that he may actually enjoy confusing the newbies, as he calls them.
I think it's the KICK that has the task of stopping that precious and delicate blade edge at the tip from hitting that "spring holder" or "spacer" as some choose to call it. The choil, being more of a divot or notch than a projection--would not be likely to stop anything.
But who knows? As with all things Buck there can be many answers to the never-ending questions.
Anyhow, here's info that may help all of us that are not elderly enough to own 500 110s. :D

http://www.blademag.com/blog/can-define-knife-choil

"""Be that as it may, the chief purpose of the knife choil, as noted by the definitions of both Russell and Collins, is to allow the full length of the cutting edge to be properly sharpened. In other words, it is simply a small notch between where the cutting edge ends and the ricasso or the blade tang begins that indicates where you should stop when sharpening the blade with a stone, diamond-coated abrasive or what have you."""
Click to expand...
I humbly and embarrassingly stand corrected..i was talking about same part but used that term as I has heard it used for the kick years ago and as that was were in the old custom shop they at times stamped their initials. kinda getting a bit long in the tooth and wool gathering some... I bought my first folding hunter some time around 1966/67? so yea I sure nuff have a few... hay some place here abouts some one had extra dave decoders rings so as dat any one could follow along and it all made sense.. any way I sure do get me kicks talking about the folding hunter..
 
Good. I joke about age but I know we're about the same age since we were both in the Navy in the Vietnam War Era........but you have outpaced me in 110 acquisition and knowledge. I figured it out and I'll have to live to be 173 to catch up with you on that.
:D
 
VorpalRain said:
Good. I joke about age but I know we're about the same age since we were both in the Navy in the Vietnam War Era........but you have outpaced me in 110 acquisition and knowledge. I figured it out and I'll have to live to be 173 to catch up with you on that.
:D
Click to expand...
yeaa that was a diff time in the usa an unpopular war and anti-military feeling abounded through out this land
only thing is we did not call them snow flakes back then... I was part of that cold war spy vs spy on a ww2 sub trailing rush'n fishing ships to get prop sonar sigs... we even had 5 lb charges droped on us once fer not being were we were sposed ta be... rumors of unmarked buck 110s being used by seals and other spook forces and as it happens there were!(story fer a knight with feet put up and a hot tody in hand) rummer they was d2 also but they were not ... heck tell 300 ifn I had a thin skin I would have been kilt on that sub... but I made it tell hit by the car head on ... another long story... as to number of knives... there were and ,I am sure are, other collectors with larger collections... some of them been at it longer then me too. I started too late with too little money to get some of the good old ones
choil if-n one looks at the diagram and at a 110 blade there is no choil notch like on slippys..
some older guys in the original custom shop said they put their initials on the choil,,, which could be the part after the edge were there is no notch but KICK is a much better term and one the newer guys know..but see if dees younger ones had a decoder ring they would have known just what part I was talking about ya needs to get a decoder ring... last I heard Joe had a few left.
I keeps forgetting not every one is our age... dees new bies ...
like young boys to their first dance ... they will have big eyes over the OLDER girls big ....ugh ...collections...
but once I was a new bie on this here forum my self and made all kinds o mistakes ...and pissed some old timers off loose cannon I was...
but some times I had it right... like there really was a inverted three line blade stamp! but they say if you know pre-sice-ly how many you have then you don't have enugh....lol out paced ? naw I went crasy is what ..
 
Last edited:
Yes, I've noticed the newbies. A few are hard not to notice.

:D

God help us, they are the future.
 
There are a lot of lock back designs and some of them don't allow the blade to hit anything. I have a Puma with a similar design to the 110 that also hits. However the Case Bose Wilfred hunter does not hit at all but the spring is integral to the rear assembly. I have a custom made 112-like knife by Dennis Bradley with the same design and it doesn't botom out. It's not possible on that construction. Cammilus has an odd design where the spring is in between the cover and liner, it does not bottom out. Dick Atkinson and AGRussell made lockbacks with a coil spring in the butt, that design doesn't bottom out either.
 
Yes.......and I will tell you this......on a properly made 110 or 112 if you let the blade snap shut just a little, you will hear a click. That sound is NOT doing harm and it is not the BLADE edge hitting anything.

That's the KICK making contact with the spring above up in front. If you squeeze a little on the blade you can defeat the spring and make the tip of the blade go farther and contact the spacer at the other end of the knife......but you have to use a little effort to do it and that contact is not what made the original click. If you do enough of that squeezing 'til contact you can do harm to the blade out near the tip.

On an improperly made or damaged 110 or 112 (usually the newer ones) you can let the blade snap shut and the tip will sometimes contact the rear spacer. Enough of that with the newer steels will flatten the blade a bit at that point.

That's a part of this story.
 
AG Russell explains that he uses a stop pin in his lock back knives so that the kick never rests on the rocker bar. I have other knives made this way and the blade cannot be forced to close beyond the stop point. My Case Tribal Lock doesn't have a kick that protrudes beyond the blade edge. The ricasso rests on the hump at the pivot point of the rocker bar. The blade then cannot be further depressed. The blade over closing is not an inherent characteristic of all lock backs. Obviously, other knife designers have noted this deficiency of design and have found ways to overcome it. This is not something that you just have to learn to live with, unless you choose to.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top