Tips on selling knives?

[Robert Dark]

I understand your point, however to me this sounds close to SPAM.
This specific thread shouldnt be thought of as an advertising vehicle, as much as a discussion of a topic.
David
David

Hoss,

I might be missing something here, but I don't necessarily think Mike had intentions of SPAMMING anything. One of the things that was brought up before was the fact that we need good exposure. Perhaps due to his posts on this thread he has increased his exposure and is simply sharing the results with us.

I think Mike is a "Bling" kind of guy, but is truly trying to help, not only himself, but the rest of us as well.

My $.02

Robert (who probably needs some type of plan)

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi David,

What are some of the most common mistakes a beginning maker might make?

I'm going to assume that you are talking about this: Creating a successful business that turns a profit from the sale of custom knives.

1st and Biggest mistake. Not treating your knife making as a business.

2) Pricing. Basically not knowing how to or why their knife should have a certain price. Most rely on another maker....most of them know how to price their knives...but not a new makers knives. Most offer this piece of advise..."You need to ask more money for them."

3) Because your friends and family think you make an incredible knife....does not mean that you do. Their enthusiasm is great...however, they probably do not have the critical eye that you need to eliminate obvious mistakes and move forward quickly.

People in sales call it a "profession" and rightfully so. You can spend hundreds of hours (Books, CD's, even seminars) learning how to be a successful sales person. Just like making knives, it takes practice. Nothing takes the place of standing behind a table 8 hours a day for 3 days answering questions about your knives.

Of course if you are dealer you have to be able to talk about 20 - 40 knife makers with equal enthusiasm and product knowledge.

 

[Burke]

I understand your point, however to me this sounds close to SPAM.
This specific thread shouldnt be thought of as an advertising vehicle, as much as a discussion of a topic.
David
David

My fiancee is a small businessperson (photographer) and she is always making the point that what she does and how she behaves reflects on her business. As either a knifemaker or a photographer, you are not just selling a product, you are selling your professionalism and attitude. Her Facebook posts, her personal networking, etc, are all potentially viewable by customers and can draw them in or drive them away. If you aren't comfortable advertising yourself, you aren't going to be a successful knifemaker. It's not "spam" - it's business.

Mike Snody says he's sold three knives as a result of his participation in this thread. How many have you sold? <-- (I don't mean that to come across as confrontational as it probably sounds, just trying to make a point that if you want to make it, you've got to constantly be thinking about your business).

 

[2knife]

I wasnt trying to stir things up with Mike, i know he has a successful business BECAUSE he works hard. My only comment was, this thread shouldnt be considered an advertising tool. And, maybe it was only my impression he was doing this. My
apology to Mike if this has not been part of the intent, here. I think these threads should be instructive, first and foremost-devoid of "advertising"- if that's anyones hope. But, surely i can see it might be both, as well. In these cases, it's a natural
by-product.

 

[UltraReef]

I understand your point, however to me this sounds close to SPAM.
This specific thread shouldnt be thought of as an advertising vehicle, as much as a discussion of a topic.
David
David

In that case, SPAM = $$MONEY$$!!

That sad fact is that the answers are right in front of you, actions speak louder than words.

Another point Mike was trying to make is, you won't be able to sell anything on this planet if you go negative. Why would anyone want to buy a product from a whiner that complains about the people that don't like the product you're trying to sell? Put your energy to better use by being positive and showing the world that your product is worth buying.

 

[Lorien]

I own a business, and like all businesses, it is a living and breathing entity. I give it life and breath.

A little 'cult o' personality' never hurts, and after all, if your business is you, then you are your business.

 

[UltraReef]

I wasnt trying to stir things up with Mike, i know he has a successful business BECAUSE he works hard. My only comment was, this thread shouldnt be considered an advertising tool. And, maybe it was only my impression he was doing this. My
apology to Mike if this has not been part of the intent, here. I think these threads should be instructive, first and foremost-devoid of "advertising"- if that's anyones hope. But, surely i can see it might be both, as well. In these cases, it's a natural
by-product.

If it doesn't make money, it's doesn't make sense.

 

[2knife]

Hi David,



I'm going to assume that you are talking about this: Creating a successful business that turns a profit from the sale of custom knives.

1st and Biggest mistake. Not treating your knife making as a business.

2) Pricing. Basically not knowing how to or why their knife should have a certain price. Most rely on another maker....most of them know how to price their knives...but not a new makers knives. Most offer this piece of advise..."You need to ask more money for them."

3) Because your friends and family think you make an incredible knife....does not mean that you do. Their enthusiasm is great...however, they probably do not have the critical eye that you need to eliminate obvious mistakes and move forward quickly.

People in sales call it a "profession" and rightfully so. You can spend hundreds of hours (Books, CD's, even seminars) learning how to be a successful sales person. Just like making knives, it takes practice. Nothing takes the place of standing behind a table 8
hours a day for 3 days answering questions about your knives.

Of course if you are dealer you have to be able to talk about 20 - 40 knife makers with equal enthusiasm and product
knowledge.

Thanks Les,
I always appreciate your comments. Though, due to the fact i am not a knife maker, i would not assume to know the struggles, or even what questions are most valid. I was hoping this thread might encourage a good dialogue- which i feel it has.

Maybe someone will have a few more questions/ comments - such as from makers themselves on
the business aspect? How do you go about developing a business plan?
David

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi David,

A business plan can be 1 page to 1,000 pages. The first one you write will work till it doesn't....then you rewrite to address an issue you didn't before. Once that one is in place and working it is great...till it doesn't address the next issue facing a successful business..so you write the next one. However, what this does is continually updates your position in the market place and what you need to do to address some of the "issues" that are slowing the growth of your business.

Lorien pointed out that a business is a living breathing entity. Perhaps a little spiritual for my taste. However, a business has to assume a degree of fluidity. A static business will soon die. As Newton said

A body in motion tends to stay in motion unless acted on by an outside force

. For business's the outside force is the actions (or lack their of) in the marketplace.

Today a successful business plan must have plans for adjustments to the marketplace. This can be as simple as "rewrite this plan every 3 months."

While I am not a knife maker...I work (and have worked with) a lot of them. I have seen what the successful ones have done and what the unsuccessful ones have done...or not done. You read my previous post.

Most people do not like the "detail" work that is a business/marketing plan. Which is part of the reason that according to the Small Businessman's Administration (SBA) between 60 - 75% of all small business will fail in the first 5 years. Now these are business that are being started as a way to provide income for the owner. Most knife makers are part time. As such they have another income source (day job, wife's job, pension, etc.) So the need to have the business pay for itself is not as great for some of those as it would be for someone trying to make a living at it.

 

[zachtateknives]

Les, you have given me a lot of food for thought. Thank you.
Earl, you said one thing that is very much correct in business, if it doesn't make money then it doesn't make sense. (Should apply to all aspects of life too, but be careful to not just focus on the right now, think about the long term).
Snody, sent you a pm, thanks for the input.

To the OP, you got some real good answer from these guys, as well as others, ha, wish my answer was productive, i just wasted bandwidth, ha. Best of luck.

peAce
zach@zachtateknives.com

 

[Lon Humphrey]

Excellent Post.. I am impressed with your videos and your "can do" attitude..
I had your videos on the flat screen yesterday with the whole shop watching.. My helper said "who is this guy" and I said "Lon Humphrey-remember the name"
I visited your website and your knives look like honest knives to me.. I know your heart is in your work..
Good luck with your test next month..
Respect

i have to give a great big thank you to Mike for posting my vid on HIS you tube channel i am talking to a guy that is tying to decide on what knives he wants to buy...HES RIGHT THE WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING

MUCH RESPECT MIKE

 

[JParanee]

i have to give a great big thank you to Mike for posting my vid on HIS you tube channel i am talking to a guy that is tying to decide on what knives he wants to buy...HES RIGHT THE WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING

MUCH RESPECT MIKE

Mike is a very good dude and he really does speak whats on his mind he is the real deal at what he does

But Mike my brother I have to disagree with the comment I'd would rather have a knife break then bend . I would rather have the oposite I can always stand on it I'm fat enough to straighten it out

 

[Snody]

i have to give a great big thank you to Mike for posting my vid on HIS you tube channel i am talking to a guy that is tying to decide on what knives he wants to buy...HES RIGHT THE WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING

MUCH RESPECT MIKE

Outstanding...
I hope the individual purchases one of each model you offer and then gives you a generous tip.
Lon, I had to take your video down from my channel.. I had nearly a dozen emails and messages today on youtube from people wanting to buy a forged knife "like the one in the video"
I disabled comments hoping to solve the problem and then my friend called and told me the thing went viral and sure enough within minutes the phone started ringing with one youtube enthusiast after another wanting to send me money for a forged blade.. They all wanted to talk to 'Lon" and some people became down right angry upon discovering they would not be able to speak with Lon or purchase a forged blade..
One guy even threatened me before becoming so mad that he started stuttering and hung up on me.
The video went viral.. It is on stations all over the world now.. You might be on the Oreilly Factor before this thing has run its course..
Have a good 1..
Cuidate..

 

[NStricker]

I'll throw one out here.

The question was asked what not to do. Don't spend money that's not yours. Specifically, don't spend money a customer has paid you for a knife that you have not delivered. There is a long laundry list of makers--some still in the business, some not--who have spent deposits before the customers' knives were delivered. Then life catches up to them. Equipment breaks, family emergency, etc. and the customer's money gets spent, the maker falls behind on orders, and the next thing he knows the world is watching as all his customers--who've paid for deposits, etc.--are bad mouthing him on every forum and demanding their money back.

 

[Storm Crow]

A couple of things that I can contribute.

1. Post everything you make. I have had people sit and watch me put new work up on forums for two years before finally making the decision to buy a knife from me. It's cumulative. Your skill will grow as you go, anyways, and you want people to see what you are currently capable of making.

2. If you're going to take a deposit (I do; I got burned on my very first custom order as a business by the guy who had ordered it, a fairly prominent member of another forum, just totally disappearing. No one knew what happened to him, and I was stuck with a knife that I had put a lot of work into.), then don't take it until you are ready to actually begin work. That way you don't run into the situation described by NStricker. And don't deliver until you have the rest of the money!

 

[JParanee]

A caution to makers that require deposits on order

To some customers unless there is some type of rare expensive material they will not and this includes myself pay a deposit

I have contacted makers to order knives and if they require a deposit I refuse to make the order

 

[Lon Humphrey]

i have mixed feelings on deposits....ive been burned on this too i dont like to do it but when i take the time to make a knife and i get no responce to emails that its done here is the pic bla bla bla,,,, of course the knife sold at the next show but if it was a wild order like a spikey thing (witch it wasent that knife) i would have been stuck so i dont think 50 bucks is too much to ask to make sure a guy really wants it..

 

[2knife]

Lon,
also there is the question, is it a knife you believe in making? Are you suiting someone else's ideas or are you doing what you want to do?

How much of the time are customer requests put ahead of the maker's creative control? .. And does this apply, when talking deposits?
David

 

[2knife]

Les,
If you are still reading, i want to take advantage of asking- since you maintain a strong business relationship with makers.
Just hypothetical, say i was a new maker- looking for guidance on pricing. Where would i go, or How do i know what my knives are worth? And, if a knife dealer has agreed to help market my knives, what are the rules/procedures at the outset with this?

How do things change over time, as a level of status is achieved, maker thinks his knives should go up in price according to demand- how is this usually negotiated between dealer/maker?
Thanks,
David

 

[Storm Crow]

The whole deposit thing is going to be personal decision, of course. If everyone would do what they're supposed to, it would be totally unnecessary unless to secure costly materials. I know there are a number of rather infamous knifemakers who seem to have gotten into the business of taking deposits and then ignoring the customer rather than making knives. That's why I won't take a deposit until I am ready to do the work. That protects the customer, and the deposit protects me. I can understand a customer getting turned off by it, especially in light of some of those infamous "knifemakers", but I think it is a reasonable thing if handled correctly, and has precedence in plenty of other areas of custom work.

I haven't had a customer express any problem with the policy so far. Your mileage may vary.

My comment, to re-iterate, is that if you do make it a policy to take a deposit, don't do so until you are ready to do the work. Keeps you honest and your reputation intact, even from a sudden unexpected interruption in life rather than shifty business practices.