Tips on selling knives?

[Longbowkid]

" We just set up a new work area outside with two grinders and I need someone who is willing to really work hard.".

Snody-

Got enough room for an Alabama native in Texas? Thats a hell of an offer considering today's economy being how it is.

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To hopefully offer something constructive to the thread, in my small time as a maker I have seen lots of good come from treating your customer with the utmost respect, and putting your heart and soul into your work. That same respect will most likely be given back to you. ie, you treat a customer right, they help advertise and spread the word about how they were treated, and the quality of product they recieved.

Brandon

 

[Lon Humphrey]

Lon,
also there is the question, is it a knife you believe in making? Are you suiting someone else's ideas or are you doing what you want to do?

How much of the time are customer requests put ahead of the maker's creative control? .. And does this apply, when talking deposits?
David

it makes no diffrance to me what a customer wants the deposit is still 50 bucks, as far as creative control i usually leave that up to the individual i am working on one right now where i have very little creative input ...its kind of a job specific knife so skinning large game ....thats what he wants so that is what im going to do my best at giving him...

 

[2knife]

Les,
If you wont mind me asking a couple more questions. First, on the resale of knives:
What is it that distinguishes a dealer from someone starting up a website, selling knives from their collection?
Any tax issues?

- and when would it become necessary, or beneficial to have a dealer/business license too?
Thanks!
David

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi David,

a new maker- looking for guidance on pricing. Where would i go, or How do i know what my knives are worth?

I won't belabor this point as most new makers are more concerned about making the knife then actually knowing what the final product should sell for. Which is an odd way to do "business".

1) Figure out what market you are going to compete in.

2) Figure out your position in that market (generally at the bottom).

3) Determine materials, labor costs and profit margin.

4) Check the market again and see if your knives can compete favorably.
If yes....continue
If no.....rethink the market you want to compete in.

5) Price your knives accordingly.

Most new makers build the knife...see what category it fits in...looks at other knives to see their prices...when in doubt ask another maker what it will sell for.

It never ceases to amaze me that makers will spend countless hours, in some cases thousands of dollars....and still not know how to price their knives.

Yes Yes, that is an oversimplification of pricing. But there is really no reason to go any deeper into it.

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi David,

if a knife dealer has agreed to help market my knives, what are the rules/procedures at the outset with this?

How do things change over time, as a level of status is achieved, maker thinks his knives should go up in price according to demand- how is this usually negotiated between dealer/maker?

First, most Custom knife dealers have as many if not more factory knives in stock. So they are not custom knife dealers....perhaps a thin line, but none the less the maker needs to know that at best the dealers attention will be split. And often if the dealer can't close the sale on a custom knife will move quickly from the custom knife to a factory knife. That is business boys and girls. Quite frankly this is a excellent business plan for a new dealer.

Second, the majority of the 2nd tier dealers are all chasing the same 25 makers. Those would be the makers who they know will be able to sell their knives immediately for a profit. Limited knowledge of the overall market...but enough to know how to buy knives to make a profit. These dealers will have little or no use for new makers. Again, another excellent business plan for the part time dealer.

I can't speak for other custom knife dealers. Each has their own approach and each will have "specialty areas" most because those are the types of knives they are most interested in.

When I talk to a new maker I generally know in the first couple of minutes if they are going to be very successful. One of the things I ask them is to explain the prices on their knives. Which I would encourage everyone to do. The range of answers goes from a complete blank stare to a very good explanation of their pricing. Most is in the middle...A guess!

For my part a new maker that I will choose to work with will have to be able to answer some questions. Defend/explain their prices. Tell me about their business plan (not in any great detail, but they have to have some idea where they want to go and how they are going to get there). Satisfactory answers will lead to another conversation.

After that their ability to deliver on time will greatly impact future business.

Prices raise as skill level, demand and the complexity of the work and/or materials used.

Many makers fail to understand that early on what people are paying for are their mistakes. They are being paid for their current knives so they can continue to make knives in the future...kinda of a scholarship program. Consequently, the new maker should reward their benefactor with a more than fair price. Assuring them as they improve and raise their prices. The early adopters of their work will be rewarded when they sell or trade that makers initial offerings. More times than not that early adopter will take the money received form the sale of the first knife and buy a second. If the results continue to be break even/make a little money....the early adopter will become a steady customer.

For grins sometime, take out the 2011 Knives Annual and the 2001 Knives Annual...go through it and look at the percentage of makers who were in 2001 and no longer in 2011. I think you will be very surprised what the percentage is. Where did they all go?

The main 3 reasons they are gone:

1) They no longer make knives, because they died, health problems, just plain retired.

2) Their prices were not tenable with their position in the market.

3) The didn't figure out that you need to build what the collector wants...not always what you want.

Again, this is why about 96% of custom knife makers are part time.

 

[betzner]

My fiancee is a small businessperson (photographer) and she is always making the point that what she does and how she behaves reflects on her business. As either a knifemaker or a photographer, you are not just selling a product, you are selling your professionalism and attitude. Her Facebook posts, her personal networking, etc, are all potentially viewable by customers and can draw them in or drive them away. If you aren't comfortable advertising yourself, you aren't going to be a successful knifemaker. It's not "spam" - it's business.

Mike Snody says he's sold three knives as a result of his participation in this thread. How many have you sold? <-- (I don't mean that to come across as confrontational as it probably sounds, just trying to make a point that if you want to make it, you've got to constantly be thinking about your business).

Yes, this is absolutely true. It applies not just to makers, photographers, etc - but to dealers, as well. How you appear to others is critical to the first sale, or the next sale.

Bob Betzner

 

[KyleyHarris]

A caution to makers that require deposits on order

To some customers unless there is some type of rare expensive material they will not and this includes myself pay a deposit

I have contacted makers to order knives and if they require a deposit I refuse to make the order

Well, thats your prerogative, and of course, the maker could be thinking the same thing about you... The Maker could be thinking "who is this person that wants me to make a custom knife worth hundreds, but isn't willing to commit $50 to ensure they wont dissapear leaving me with a knife nobody else wants to buy"

Trust goes both ways.
In business, its about honesty. If you are honest, then you will be supported by honest customers.

I've started making knives April 2009.
I have not made or sold a single knife in my life without full payment up front. I do take a $50 deposit on any order that will be over 2 months waiting time. Typically I only take pre-orders for things I want to make. I've got 50 knives sitting in my garage waiting to be made all on pre-order with deposits.. And every single person paid happily knowing that my word is my bond and they will get the knife or the money.
I've sold every knife I've made, that I didn't keep for myself . I've sold about 500 knives since I started. Not one was ever advertised on this, or any forum.. I am not a full time maker.. its a hobby.

TO THE OP
As Lon Said.. Honesty is the key.. if you lie, your business will die. Spend every ounce of energy showing your product.. the benefits, the way it works, how well it works.. You dont need create any negative energy. If someone attacks you, or your work.. focus on the positive of what you are doing, comment on any faulty facts you might see, but dont get into a pissing war.. Everyone is watching you all the time.

Snody is 100% right.. if you open your mouth on the internet, and you sell knives, then what comes out of your mouth is advertising. You asked for advise on a business of selling knives, and Snody gave you the best advise possible through demonstration. Look at his words, his posts, his demeanor. Every single thing his shop does is selling a knife to someone. You called it "spam" and missed his point entirely.. he is showing you what it takes to sell your knife. Every post he makes has the energy and the videos that will direct someone to his gear.. if 1 in 1000 people click a vid, and make a purchase then he is rolling in his bling

at the end of the day.. you first need to be able to make knives that work, work well, and that people will want.. none of this will happen unless you have the capacity to proove it to them. Glamorous photos might sell knives.. but knives are tools and dont need to be glamourous to sell.. its all about price point (after design and function)

 

[SharpByCoop]

^^^ Some great points are being made. Thank you!

Mike, your wisdom is refreshing and deceptive. You don't LOOK like a master, but you are. Hat's off.

Les, this above is VERY smart. Without really knowing, I did the same steps and it rewarded me and pushed me to the top. I shot 400+ knives for TheCustomKnife.com in 2002-2004 for $15 per image. I got paid to learn.

Coop

 

[Kevin Jones]

Since the thread author mentioned collectors selling knives from their collections here's 10 tips that have worked well for me over the years and I share in my knife collecting seminars.

First, realize you can make money selling custom knifes. If you buy the right knives from the right makers at the right price there’s always someone who will pay what they’re worth.
What is the 'right knife'? Usually, a time proven classic design that stands out among the others (for a number of reasons) today and will most likely do so in 2-5 years after you purchase it.

Who is the 'right maker'? Usually, a maker who not only makes well designed and well executed knives, but relentlessly promotes himself and his knives and knows how to run his business thus achieving a favorable and sustainable position in the market.

What is the ‘right price’? Usually, at or below the price at which the maker offers the knife to his buyers. In other words, avoid dealer mark-ups, existing owner mark-ups above market price value and ‘flipper’ premiums.

Second, be continuously making a market for your knives. You can achieve this by getting good photographs taken of your knives and getting them "out there" to be seen by as many potential buyers as possible. You can attract buyers from all over the world by simply having your collection on a good photo site for about $25 a year. Fototime, Photo Bucket, Flicker and others offer this service. You can also take if to the next level of building a good collector website. Photo sites and custom websites will have buyers coming to you. These contacts are great to have if or when you do decide to sell a knife.

Third, send photos to other collectors who have the same knife interest as you, letting them know you are offering knives for sale.

Forth, don't let anyone know you want or need to liquidate your knives. The savvy collector will be finished liquidating before anyone knows they have started.

Fifth, represent your knives accurately. Advertising your knives as something they’re not will not only hurt your chances of selling a knife, but knives in the future as well.

Sixth, don't listen to others telling you that you will always lose money consigning custom knives through dealers.
Find which web dealers have a following for the specific maker's knives you own. For example web dealer X may have a strong overseas market for say Fisk knives. Even after paying consignment fees which generally run from 10% to 30%, you could very well come out ahead over finding buyers yourself. Remember, dealers have access to a much larger pool of buyers than you. In other words, I would much rather share profit with a dealer than lose money selling on my own.

Seventh, sell knives individually not in lots. If you are in a hurry to sell, list them in multiple places. For example, I wouldn’t list 6 knives for sale on the same day on the same forum exchange. This indicates a “Fire Sale” and buyers will expect discounts.

Eighth, many forum “for sale” or “exchange” areas are best suited for buyer's rather than sellers. You may be successful if your knives are from the right makers and you acquired them at the right prices.

Ninth, don’t appear desperate. Give your knives a chance to sell at your initial price. Frequently dropping your price only makes potential buyers hesitate in anticipation of additional reductions.

Tenth, use eBay only as a last resort unless you are prepared to discount your knives.

 

[2knife]

Many great comments! Thanks guys,
David

 

[RogerP]

A caution to makers that require deposits on order

To some customers unless there is some type of rare expensive material they will not and this includes myself pay a deposit

I have contacted makers to order knives and if they require a deposit I refuse to make the order

This has been discussed many times over the years, but is worth repeating. Absent the need for purchasing specific materials, I will not pay a deposit. Paying for the full price up front before the knife is even made? That's a really bad idea.

One point for makers - and I am continually surprised at how few do this - build a contact list for available pieces. When someone purchases one of your knives, orders one of your knives or expresses a general interest in your knives, ask if they would like to be added to a contact list for available pieces in the future. Since they are voluntarily "opting in", this is not "spamming". Grow that list over time and you will find you are better able to quickly sell those spec pieces that are neither custom orders nor show knives. I am on quite a few contact lists and have made a number of purchases this way over the years.

Les, very good posts on the subject, as expected.

Roger

 

[SharpByCoop]

I'm copying and printing Les' remarks (tutorial) above. There are nuggets in there that demand rereading.

Thanks!

Kyley: Your model of business is an anomoly that it is working. For you. Yes, honesty is always key, but reality is also.

Reality: Payment = motivation = reward. Payment first = reward first = less motivation. Human nature? I'd say so.

Knives are not only tools. Unused they provide enjoyment through pride of ownership, because they may have superb engineering, fitment, style, and artistic lines.

You have heard all this before, and you are somehow successful at it. Carry on. Really.

Coop

 

[KyleyHarris]

Coop, you are of course, right for the majority of people who are perhaps untrustworthy or untrusting.. it can go both ways. Perhaps it is the model of sales and the fact that so many are running on a shoestring budget as Knifemakers and presenting themselves as full time professionals that end up letting people down when they run out of steam.

My model does work for me.. because I am me.. People trust me and have good reason to. You have to build a model that will work.

"Reality: Payment = motivation = reward. Payment first = reward first = less motivation. Human nature? I'd say so."

Perhaps.. but this is a reality where you believe and accept that the person you are hiring actually has low self-esteem to get the work done if they have allready been paid.. I run on an opposite scale.. If I dont have your money, I have very little obligation to you to get something done.. If I have your money and trust, then I am very motivated to get the work done and complete my side of an honorable bargain. What you imply (and probably correctly) is that too many people run at a lower ethical model (intentionally or not.) What you are implying is that the majority of humans by your estimation dont actually value honor and commitment, or simply dont have the energy to do it even if they can follow that belief. I personally run on a higher level than that and the people that and people see it, and trust it. All of my customers come from Youtube.. I take great pains to make myself visible.. no false names.. no aliases.. everything is real. because of that I have customers in over 30 countries all sight unseen who put their faith in who I am.

I have 1 person in Switzerland recently who insisted on pre-paying for 6 knives (he's never had one before) but he wanted to make the best of the exchange rate 2 months ago. As Mike Snody said.. How you portray yourself is everything.. and I think the fact that people trustingly throw money at me is a testament to the fact that there are Honest makers, and Honest clients in abundance.

I'm pretty certain Murray Carter takes full payment in advance too, along with many very successful makers.

Lets look at another scenario of a smaller maker..

lets say the maker wants to make 30 knives and no-one wants to pay a $50 deposit.. Thats fine but on that same human nature I'd also want a signed contract from each of the 30 people committing to the sale.. If I am going to put all my money up front because you ask for something, then in turn you should be willing to contractually commit to the item as long as the completed item meets expectations. This poses a second issue of getting a custom item.. peoples minds dont always match in artistry, and the fickle buyer asks for something unusual, and the 2 minds dont agree leaving the maker with a knife that no-one else wants, and a buyer that had remorse and backed out for no valid reason.

Now, lets look at basic marketing.. If I am putting all the money up front myself with no deposits I have a higher risk. Economically this demands a higher price for a knife.. Arbitrarily lets say $200 per knife for 30 knives.. I dont have running capital because I am small so I have to buy everything in smaller amounts, and heat treat them in smaller amounts, and make them slower and get each payment in turn, before I can work on the next. This leads to slow turnaround, and not always the best motivation to continue..

We could however convince 30 people to put down $50 each. 1500 is a good working capital to buy the materials in bulk, grind in bulk, and Heat treat the batch in bulk.. Everything gets done quickly, and the maker is productive and motivated by the task. The Maker can then charge $150 for the exact same thing across the line of 30 committed people...

What I am doing is not an anomaly, but a business practise used for a very long time by many profitable people. I think its something anyone can acheive as long as it is part of a well documented business plan that the consumer can understand.

Applying a production line business model (ie.. see first, pay later) simply leads to a lot of custom makers who dont survive and cannot continue in the business. I have bought custom knives, custom furniture, custom archery equipment, custom all sorts.. Apart from the knife industry, I dont actually know of any custom makers doing on-spec work that work without a deposit to cover the sundries or having an airtight signed contract (only works if not international)


"Knives are not only tools. Unused they provide enjoyment through pride of ownership, because they may have superb engineering, fitment, style, and artistic lines. "

Again.. this is correct for many.. for many they are simply art, and they will never actually know if what they have is truly functional and fit for purpose. but in that case, I would call it art.. because my personal opinion is that a knife is a tool for cutting and the desirable qualities are those that make it durable, comfortable and efficient. that makes it worth having.

Someone above said that a good policy is (paraphrasing) "to always do the best you can".. Well in business I have to fully disagree.. What if as an ABS mastersmith, the best that you can do always results in a $6000 knife that most cannot afford.. Where-as you are fully cabable of creating numerous $100 knives that are far below your best, yet are still highly functional and affordable tools for a life time.. In business its not about doing your best.. but in providing Value-added service or goods at a price point and level of finish people want. If I made only knives to the best of my ability I doubt I'd sell more than 1 a month.

I hope some of what I say is useful to the OP.. but at the end of the day, you cannot run a business if you dont have the right mentality for the business model. You have to pick something that you are able to accomplish.


Wow.. Did I really just write all that

All the best.

 

[KyleyHarris]

3) Determine materials, labor costs and profit margin.

This is an excellent point. Many people I talk to in startup small business (a big thing in a tiny country like NZ) intermix Labor Cost and profit margin as the same thing.. Inevitably this leads to burn out when they realise that they could end up working for $1 an hour at an arbitrary price point they set.

I always tell people when pricing something to try and imagine that they were employing someone to be themselves, and consider a fair rate and amount of productivity, and then after than set a profit margin to the item.. Once you do this, often the price seems too high to be profitable because people may not purchase it, which is when you need to start looking at the supply chain and productivity of how you create the items in the first place. Little savings can go a long way.

 

[SharpByCoop]

^^^ Wonderful. This is the most valid argument for this type of transaction I have seen. It actually makes sense.

Great counterpoints, presented with clarity and a non-anxious tone. (In another thread I was keen on the value of our interactions equalling the information received. You just showed how to do both.)

As my avatar suggests, I am enjoying THIS discussion.

Cheers!

Jim

 

[RogerP]

Every knifemaker trainwreck story I have personally experienced or heard about in the last 25 years had one feature in common: the maker had $$ from several buyers, but did not deliver the knives. That simply could not happen if the maker wasn't taking money up front in the first place. Sometimes there is a good reason for failing to deliver - illness, injury, whatever. Would you like to compound that unfortunate situation by owing money to several people in the form of deposits or pre-payments that should be returned, but may already have been spent?

Kyle - two questions - when you demand a deposit, do you also guarantee delivery exactly when promised? If you are a day late, does the buyer then get the knife for free?

One comment - when you said "If I dont have your money, I have very little obligation to you to get something done.. " I really, honestly, truly hope you didn't mean it. I have worked with countless makers whose obligation to "get something done" was grounded in their personal integrity, their professionalism and their committment to the craft. If all that is negated for lack of a $50 deposit.... that is not painting a pretty picture.

Whether you choose to believe it or not, taking deposits and demanding payment in advance ARE anomalous practices in the custom knife community. It may work for you and that is your choice. For my part, I choose not to play that game. And I remain firmly of the view that as a business practice in THIS particular business - it's a bad one.

Roger

 

[KyleyHarris]

Roger.. How many personal experiences in 25 years have you suffered from? I would imagine its not as bad as you make it sound % wise. but because it happened to you, then it has impacted on your perception.

Question 1:
when you demand a deposit, do you also guarantee delivery exactly when promised?

Here is the problem with your question. its rude through implication, and therefore shows an expected answer to meet your preset notions.
I dont demand anything.. thats the rub with your question. I dont Demand you buy a knife from me. I didn't call you up and convince you to buy something from me, and then demand a pre-payment.. I hope you and everyone can see how wording impacts on an answer.

Let me tell you what I do.. I come up with an idea, and I offer it to interested parties.. note the fact that they are interested.. I'm not convincing them to take it. Therefore when its spelled out in clear terms that if they are interested I require a deposit there is no hard edge feeling like you imply in your post.

The second issue with your question is the implied necessity to provide someone with a Guarantee of a delivery date.. Custom Making anything with a single person, rather than a factory is by nature inherantly risky as timelines goe.. so for any custom maker to every "guarantee" you a time is actually probably a guess, rough estimate, and inherantly a lie.. Answer.. I NEVER guarantee a delivery date.. I may provide an INDICATION.. the indication might be 1 week, 2 weeks, 6 weeks.. if you ask and demand a guarantee then I'll tell you 2 years. again.. you dont have to take my service, and no one is forcing it upon you. If I cut my wrist and cannot work for 3 weeks and guaranteed you a knife in 2 weeks, then it would be a foolish thing.
What the people get is reliable updates and information rather than the countless stories I hear of even reliable makers who just dont reply or even tell customers whats going on.

2nd Question.. blunty put. any maker offering a free knife if they are late is 1:stupid to agree. 2: more stupid to set a fixed guarantee of delivery on an item where there are too many life variables that can force a timeline out.

Your questions not only imply that you might be a very difficult customer to satisfy, but that you are quite interested in taking advantage of a makers duress rather than gettting the quality item at a time and price fair to both side.. I really honestly hope thats not what you intend. Please tell me of a Single maker that states you will get the knife free if not delivered by a timeline. This is not a 60 second Macdonalds line.

"If I dont have your money, I have very little obligation to you to get something done.. " Thats EXACTLY what I mean.. Business is business, but you are attaching an emotional concept to it based on your personal fear of being let down. Some other person screwed you.. therefore you worry the next will also take your money and run.. Well.. let me make this very clear.. More makers are let down by people like you, than people like you are let down by makers.. I hear stories far more frequently of buyers that refused a depost on custom work that then Refused to pay for the item because hardship set in..

So lets turn it around.. You said.. "if the knife is late do you get it for free.." Let me say "if the knife is on time and you cannot pay immediately do I get your house?"

I really doubt you can cite to many stories of people losing money from a maker. but we hear it all the time switched around were the maker is left out of pocket and unpaid for good work.

"I have worked with countless makers whose obligation to "get something done" was grounded in their personal integrity, their professionalism and their committment to the craft. If all that is negated for lack of a $50 deposit.... that is not painting a pretty picture."

You say that.. but I cant seriously believe you. if you felt they had personal integrity, professionalism, and commitment, then you would infact have no issue with them getting a financial commitment from you. The real fact is that they are working into the model you force them to so that they can put food on their tables. The real question is.. if you ask a maker to do a $1000 knife no deposit, and 6 months time you were made redundant and cant pay your morgage then do you have the integrity and professionalism to find and pay for that knife on time? I think that if you are unwilling to put down $50 to that maker, then why would you even trust the maker to deliver you a quality knife at all? if you have that little trust, how can you trust the materials, heat treat or anything else.. You may be putting the maker in a financial position of requiring the use of substandard supplies.

taking deposits are not anomalous at all. perhaps on this forum.. but in the world this is a small bowl of fish.

By and large, luckily I am not reliant on people that demand I work for nothing and hope they deliver their end of the bargain. a business deal is a mutual transaction of 2 partners.. what you are suggesting is more extortionate in nature and is typical of the business model where the supplier is forced through disadvantage to supply.

I'll stand by on my word that what I am doing is the only fair and correct way to do business between 2 trusting parties. I am overworked and out of time and have nothing but more work and orders.. Tells me its a good model to go by and what I get out of the deal is nothing but trustworthy customers.. I find trustworthy people are more trusting of others.

EDIT.. Finally.. a small thing.. but important.. My name is Kyley..not Kyle, or Kylie. I make it clear in my forum name, and in my posts.. I wonder with many that they can understand a post, if they cannot clearly read someones name. It seems to happen a lot and is a shame when communication is the goal.

 

[Les Robertson]

Hi Kyley,

And I remain firmly of the view that as a business practice in THIS particular business - it's a bad one.

As this thread is to in theory educate current or potential makers Roger has a valid point that I have to agree with 100%. While this may work for you. I can tell you that in last 20 + years I have never ever paid for a knife in full before the work is done. As you can imagine I have bought quite a few knives from quite a few makers.

While I understand you run your business this way...and it works for you until you get sick, hurt, divorced, machines break...in other words life. Then you start to get behind. Like Roger said almost without exception every maker that has run into problems was directly due to taking deposits or worse full payment for the knife.

So for those collectors and makers reading this. There are only 3....and only 3 reasons to give a deposit:

1) You are asking for materials that are out of the norm for the maker...Gold, Jewels, etc.

2) You are asking for a knife that is so specific that the maker will not be able to sell the knife to anyone else. At that point you can expect to pay a large deposit.

3) You are the type of person that want to pay the knife off over time and want to give a deposit and then monthly payments.

You NEVER EVER PAY A MAKER IN FULL....EVER....When you place the order.

Now for the makers out there:

You never ever start building a knife until you talk to the client via email or preferably the phone. Double check the specifics. At that point the maker should have a very good idea when the knife will be done. As well the client will then know when to expect to pay you. The nice thing about taking credit cards is that you can have the numbers on file and when the knife is done...the card is charged and the knife is shipped.

For my business I will have the card information...even though I know the maker has shipped the knives, I even have a tracking number. The card is not charged until the knives are physically in my hands and are ready to be shipped. Why? Because anyone who has ever shipped things on a regular basis knows that shit happens. Especially if you are using USPS.

For the collectors reading this. Remember when makers start telling you 2 plus years what they are telling you is that in reality they have no idea when you will get your knife. I laugh every time I hear a maker has a 7 year wait. Only someone on death row (with appeals) knows with some certainty what they will be doing 7 years from now.

No matter who the seller is I have never seen anyone physically threaten someone to get them to buy a custom knife from them. Just remember....buyer beware.

 

[RogerP]

Roger.. How many personal experiences in 25 years have you suffered from? I would imagine its not as bad as you make it sound % wise. but because it happened to you, then it has impacted on your perception.

I neither offered nor suggested a percentage. I have personally experienced one, and heard of a good many others. It’s a small community KYLEY – word gets around. It even got around before web forums and the internet.

I dont demand anything.. thats the rub with your question. I dont Demand you buy a knife from me. I didn't call you up and convince you to buy something from me, and then demand a pre-payment.. I hope you and everyone can see how wording impacts on an answer.

Transparent semantics. You demand that anyone ordering a knife from you pay a deposit. You weren’t obliged to answer the question, but you sure did a lot of ducking before finally doing so.

Therefore when its spelled out in clear terms that if they are interested I require a deposit there is no hard edge feeling like you imply in your post.

I “implied” no “hard edge feeling”. I said you demand a deposit. You do. I asked if you guaranteed delivery. You ducked. Then finally admitted that you don't.

The second issue with your question is the implied necessity to provide someone with a Guarantee of a delivery date.

Wrong again. But at least you’re consistent. I didn’t imply a guarantee of a delivery date was necessary

Your questions not only imply that you might be a very difficult customer to satisfy,

Ask Russ Andrews, Dan Farr, Burt Foster, Bailey Bradshaw, Lin Rhea, Don Hanson, John White, Nick Wheeler, Karl Andersen, Kyle Royer, Stuart Branson, Brion Tomberlin, Bruce Bump, Dave Kelly… I could go on, but make a start there and let me know what the consensus is on how difficult I am to deal with as a customer.

but that you are quite interested in taking advantage of a makers duress

Well, that’s just rubbish. But then it’s coming from a guy who says he has no obligation to a customer to get the work done absent a monetary motivation to do so.

"If I dont have your money, I have very little obligation to you to get something done.. " Thats EXACTLY what I mean..

I was afraid so.

More makers are let down by people like you

The no makers are ever let down, because I have never let a maker down. If you’re going to make allegations like that. Man up and have the stones to back them up.

I really doubt you can cite to many stories of people losing money from a maker.

Well, you’d be wrong – but again, consistent.

I'll stand by on my word that what I am doing is the only fair and correct way to do business…

No, if you stood on your word, that alone would be sufficient grounding for your obligation to get the work done. Integrity can’t be purchased.

EDIT.. Finally.. a small thing.. but important.. My name is Kyley..not Kyle, or Kylie.

Aren’t we precious. Guess you have never made a typo, Kyley.

Roger

 

[RogerP]

So for those collectors and makers reading this. There are only 3....and only 3 reasons to give a deposit:

1) You are asking for materials that are out of the norm for the maker...Gold, Jewels, etc.

2) You are asking for a knife that is so specific that the maker will not be able to sell the knife to anyone else. At that point you can expect to pay a large deposit.

3) You are the type of person that want to pay the knife off over time and want to give a deposit and then monthly payments.

You NEVER EVER PAY A MAKER IN FULL....EVER....When you place the order.

Exactly correct.

Roger