Allan Molstad
Banned
- Joined
- Feb 1, 2007
- Messages
- 901
(It's too cold to go out to my shop today, so while I have the free time, Im going to share my views of a question always asked of me by my friends who see how much work I put into a knife)
To forge or not to forge? My views...
First , Im not a "science guy"
I dont know much at all about expert bladesmithing, and I have no real understanding of the inner nature of steel at all...
But what I believe will turn out to be true is this;
That while banging on steel is fun, and can help form steel into new shapes, it will not make a knife any better by itself.
So at first glance I would answer the question and say "It doesn't matter"
I know that puts me at odds with some forge friends, but I just have always felt that other things are in play in this question, and not just a rule that the hammering alone is key.
I think that it is the Heat-treatments that a bladesmith uses that make or break a blade.
I dont care how good a job I did with my hammer and forge, I dont care what type of tools I used if I screw up the Heat-treatments.
Mess up the HT and all the forge work that came before is moot.
Is banging hot steel any better than stock-removal?
Can a forge and hammer end you up with a better knife than other knife making means?
My answer is this-
There is also the suggestion that we should even count the hammer blows on each side of a knife to make sure they are equal...But Im not sure thats correct yet.
I know that it might sound like a good idea to count the hits.
But again,I dont think that it makes that much difference if your HT is right on the mark.
As far as another connected question about the use of a real hammer or power hammer?
I think thats a tricky question, and hard for me to answer.
The reason I think so tricky is because of what I have noticed with my own hammer work, and what I have seen in videos of a power hammer strikes.
My hammer always hits in unknown ways.
Sometimes the top of the hammer face hits the steel first, sometimes the lower end of the hammer face strikes first.
The result seems to be that the hammer face will drive the outer surface down in different ways.
The force of the hammer hitting not flush will push scale into the steel face in different ways too.
This might bring into the inner steel core many different things that will change the way the final knife will act when cutting.
A power hammer should hit more flush than my hammer, so I would expect less scale (and unknowns) to be driven into the steel as deep as my hammer.
To my way of thinking, a very good thing to test would be to learn if a slow press will effect steel in a different manner than a banging hammer?
But is forge work going to result in a better blade than the same steel finished with only stock-removal?
There could well be differences because of the action of the hammer to drive scale down into the steel...But Im not sure anyone knows if this will really harm or help the cutting edge later?
So my final answer to that question "Is hammering better than stock-removal?", is that "I dont have enough data to form an answer, but I do expect there to be some difference in the two systems"
And my final answer to the question "Small hand hammer or big power hammer?", my answer would be that this question becomes a moot point compared to the quality of the Heat-treatment used.
The only thing I can say and be 100% sure about is, that I find bringing my big hammer down hard onto red hot steel a lot more fun that just standing there at my grinder making sparks.
The story later of what work went into the final blade is also a lot more interesting for me to tell if it starts out with the basic points of "Fire, some steel, and a man armed with a hammer and an idea of what he wants to do"
Being a bladesmith, (even a not very good one yet), is better and means more to me than just being able to build a knife out of some parts I ordered and glued up.
When I show a blade to someone they look at it for a while, then hand it back to me.
But then when I add to the story that my wife and I forged this blade out of a ball bearing, then they always ask to see the knife again one more time...
It's the image of the man at a forge that brings a new layer to the story.
To forge or not to forge? My views...
First , Im not a "science guy"
I dont know much at all about expert bladesmithing, and I have no real understanding of the inner nature of steel at all...
But what I believe will turn out to be true is this;
That while banging on steel is fun, and can help form steel into new shapes, it will not make a knife any better by itself.
So at first glance I would answer the question and say "It doesn't matter"
I know that puts me at odds with some forge friends, but I just have always felt that other things are in play in this question, and not just a rule that the hammering alone is key.
I think that it is the Heat-treatments that a bladesmith uses that make or break a blade.
I dont care how good a job I did with my hammer and forge, I dont care what type of tools I used if I screw up the Heat-treatments.
Mess up the HT and all the forge work that came before is moot.
Is banging hot steel any better than stock-removal?
Can a forge and hammer end you up with a better knife than other knife making means?
My answer is this-
There is also the suggestion that we should even count the hammer blows on each side of a knife to make sure they are equal...But Im not sure thats correct yet.
I know that it might sound like a good idea to count the hits.
But again,I dont think that it makes that much difference if your HT is right on the mark.
As far as another connected question about the use of a real hammer or power hammer?
I think thats a tricky question, and hard for me to answer.
The reason I think so tricky is because of what I have noticed with my own hammer work, and what I have seen in videos of a power hammer strikes.
My hammer always hits in unknown ways.
Sometimes the top of the hammer face hits the steel first, sometimes the lower end of the hammer face strikes first.
The result seems to be that the hammer face will drive the outer surface down in different ways.
The force of the hammer hitting not flush will push scale into the steel face in different ways too.
This might bring into the inner steel core many different things that will change the way the final knife will act when cutting.
A power hammer should hit more flush than my hammer, so I would expect less scale (and unknowns) to be driven into the steel as deep as my hammer.
To my way of thinking, a very good thing to test would be to learn if a slow press will effect steel in a different manner than a banging hammer?
But is forge work going to result in a better blade than the same steel finished with only stock-removal?
There could well be differences because of the action of the hammer to drive scale down into the steel...But Im not sure anyone knows if this will really harm or help the cutting edge later?
So my final answer to that question "Is hammering better than stock-removal?", is that "I dont have enough data to form an answer, but I do expect there to be some difference in the two systems"
And my final answer to the question "Small hand hammer or big power hammer?", my answer would be that this question becomes a moot point compared to the quality of the Heat-treatment used.
The only thing I can say and be 100% sure about is, that I find bringing my big hammer down hard onto red hot steel a lot more fun that just standing there at my grinder making sparks.
The story later of what work went into the final blade is also a lot more interesting for me to tell if it starts out with the basic points of "Fire, some steel, and a man armed with a hammer and an idea of what he wants to do"
Being a bladesmith, (even a not very good one yet), is better and means more to me than just being able to build a knife out of some parts I ordered and glued up.
When I show a blade to someone they look at it for a while, then hand it back to me.
But then when I add to the story that my wife and I forged this blade out of a ball bearing, then they always ask to see the knife again one more time...
It's the image of the man at a forge that brings a new layer to the story.
